Help needed Permitted Family Member of EU Citizen Ireland

Hi all members,

I need your help and any suggestions in this process,

I want to apply for Permitted Family Member route of EU Citizen (dependent/household).

My brother is british citizen and I am non-eea household member living with my brother. He wants to exercise his Treaty Rights in Ireland by moving his centre of Life there. Only problem is that I am living in UK with him in the same house but don't have a valid visa but do have passport. I want to move with him to Ireland.

I read somewhere that as a Family Member of EU Citizen someone can enter Ireland with EU Citizen without visa. I am concerned that when we will make application for EU1A, they will ask that how you came in Ireland and they can ask my immigration history in UK.

I read somewhere as well that they will give 90 days visa and within that time-frame we need to apply for residence card. But I don't have valid visa in UK so my questions are,

1. How they will give me 90 days temporary Visa if I don't have valid visa of UK?

2. Will my immigration history in UK will affect any visa process in Ireland?

Please I need help as I am confused, as I real somewhere that before moving to Ireland, applicant need a legal stay in UK.

Hoping to receive some help and suggestions from all of you guys,

Thanks

gooner2143 wrote:Hi all members,

I need your help and any suggestions in this process,

I want to apply for Permitted Family Member route of EU Citizen (dependent/household).

...

I read somewhere as well that they will give 90 days visa and within that time-frame we need to apply for residence card. But I don't have valid visa in UK so my questions are,

1. How they will give me 90 days temporary Visa if I don't have valid visa of UK?

2. Will my immigration history in UK will affect any visa process in Ireland?

Please I need help as I am confused, as I real somewhere that before moving to Ireland, applicant need a legal stay in UK.

Hoping to receive some help and suggestions from all of you guys,

Thanks

As an extended (permitted) family member you don't have an automatic right of entry and residence into an EEA state.

Your entry is to be facilitated. That is all.
So not recommended to simply turn up on the border.

Be aware of considerable delays in EEA visa processing for Eire. See other topics on that matter.
Other members have apparently gone elsewhere due to these delays; eg France, Malta etc.

1) My understanding is:

There is no legal requirement that:

• The EU citizen is already (or will be) living or working in a different EU member state
  The non-EU family member holds a specific immigration visa or status.
  It is fine for them to have a nationally issued visa or a student visa or a visitor’s visa or even implied status

2) Obviously Irish authorities work in close collaboration with their UK partners so if you have some 'history' then they should know all about you.

But my understanding of EU law is that poor immigration history in one country should not preclude a visa for the next.

Are you financially dependent on your brother?

member wrote:Are you financially dependent on your brother?

As per OP:

My brother is british citizen and I am non-eea household member living with my brother.

@ gooner2143

you can apply for your sibling if he is dependent or member of same household.
in Ireland, its very hard now a days.. but you can try, also for traveling, once you get in Ireland then its hard for department to deport you as you are family member of an EU National.

or you can apply in your home country to join EU National.

First of all thanks to all members for replying.

I am having a problem with signing-in my account. I forgot my password and when I tried to Reset it, it shows YOU ARE NOT AUTHORISED TO REQUEST NEW PASSWORD.

Well I had to make new account.

Thank you for all the replies. @member I am household member of my brother and I want to apply by that route. @malik I heard that its very difficult to get visa from home country if you are applying through EEA route and it takes long time as well if you are permitted family member.

I met some consultants and solicitors and they told me that if I am not having legal status here, still they can process my application successfully there. I don't know how, Any ideas????

I researched alot about this issue but I found this from European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2006

"permitted family members of Union citizens.
(2) These Regulations shall not apply to a family member unless the family member is lawfully resident in another Member State and is—
(a) seeking to enter the State in the company of a Union citizen in respect of whom he or she is a family member, or
(b) seeking to join a Union citizen, in respect of whom he or she is a family member, who is lawfully present in the State."

This is Article 3(2) of the regulation. It clearly states "LAWFULLY RESIDENT" so I am a bit confused that how my status will not affect any decision on my application in Ireland.

I know these are lot of questions but I don't want to put myself in trouble later on.

Hope to hear from you guys.,

Thanks

Hi Gooner,
Good Evening!

First things first, are in the UK living with your British citizen brother?
Secondly, does your brother plan or intend to move to the Republic of Ireland
and continue to support you, going forward?

I look forward to hear your inputs in this regard.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.

Aaron-Law wrote:Hi Gooner,
Good Evening!

First things first, are in the UK living with your British citizen brother?
Secondly, does your brother plan or intend to move to the Republic of Ireland
and continue to support you, going forward?

I look forward to hear your inputs in this regard.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.

Hi Aaron,

Yes,. I'm living with my brother and he's planning to go to Ireland nd exercise his treaty rights and will continue to support me.
Thanks for your reply if you have any information regarding my problem, please share. I'll really appreciate that

Thank you

I have just done this application with my brother and have been refused we have sent an appeal, it took a very long time to receive a response we applied in sept last year we only heard 3 weeks ago, I would suggest going to another eu country. I am not sure why I was refused as I had shown all kinds of dependency, has anyone else been refused?

Hi reshma

Why they refused ur bro application .which reasons they give.was they issue temperay stamp 4.?can you expline please for all other permitted family member who are waiting.which doucments you sent them?

reshma1 wrote:I have just done this application with my brother and have been refused we have sent an appeal, it took a very long time to receive a response we applied in sept last year we only heard 3 weeks ago, I would suggest going to another eu country. I am not sure why I was refused as I had shown all kinds of dependency, has anyone else been refused?

Hi Reshma,
Good Evening!

It's unfortunate that your application was refused. What were their reasons of refusal specifically?
Secondly; how has the EU citizen been in exercise of his/ her Treaty rights?
Finally, Ireland doesn't have an appeal's process the have Review options.
What exactly were you guys given?

I hope you can throw some light in this regard, then maybe we can look into these aspects as well.

I look forward to hear from you.
I have seen a good few success stories with similar situations in the ROI.

Hope to hear from you.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.

Hi Rashema

I don't want to discourage you but I am 99% sure it's going to be going to refused again in review /appeal , I wish if Ireland have immigration tribunal system like in UK then we could have more chances to win cases but in this case same office going to review case again so 99% they won't over turn this decision.

I never seen any one who been succeed in this case. I heard only stories ..... Never seen any one who been granted residence card as extended / permitted family member.

they only way you will get it done by High Court, so you are looking for at least two years from today.


Also, I am pretty sure yoy will win this case in courts, and will also recover all costs from INIS. But you have to fight ...... And must have patience.

I am sure if INIS loses couple of cases in High Court then it would be easier for future applicants to obtain residence card at first attempt.

So Don't give up.

Regards

Malik

malik0543 wrote:Hi Rashema

I don't want to discourage you but I am 99% sure it's going to be going to refused again in review /appeal , I wish if Ireland have immigration tribunal system like in UK then we could have more chances to win cases but in this case same office going to review case again so 99% they won't over turn this decision.

I never seen any one who been succeed in this case. I heard only stories ..... Never seen any one who been granted residence card as extended / permitted family member.

they only way you will get it done by High Court, so you are looking for at least two years from today.


Also, I am pretty sure yoy will win this case in courts, and will also recover all costs from INIS. But you have to fight ...... And must have patience.

I am sure if INIS loses couple of cases in High Court then it would be easier for future applicants to obtain residence card at first attempt.

So Don't give up.

Regards

Malik

Hi Malik,
Good Morning!

Firstly, it's not fair to dash a blanket and stereotype situations/ circumstances with individual cases.
The INIS is notoriously famous for delays but eventually Justice prevails.

Firstly we have to determine the reasons/ grounds of refusal. Secondly it depends on
The submissions provided by the applicant and his family members.
Let's wait for Reshma's response to my question above, there maybe a tiny needle in the haystack.
Finally, I have had a few success stories with similar cases recently.
So please "Malik" don't dishearten people. There is system in place and I have seen it work.

Stay positive things will happen eventually.

I hope this helps.

Thank you,
Regards,

Aaron.

malik0543 wrote:Hi Rashema

I don't want to discourage you but I am 99% sure it's going to be going to refused again in review /appeal , I wish if Ireland have immigration tribunal system like in UK then we could have more chances to win cases but in this case same office going to review case again so 99% they won't over turn this decision.

I never seen any one who been succeed in this case. I heard only stories ..... Never seen any one who been granted residence card as extended / permitted family member.

they only way you will get it done by High Court, so you are looking for at least two years from today.


Also, I am pretty sure yoy will win this case in courts, and will also recover all costs from INIS. But you have to fight ...... And must have patience.

I am sure if INIS loses couple of cases in High Court then it would be easier for future applicants to obtain residence card at first attempt.

So Don't give up.

Regards

Malik

Hi Malik sb I read a thread where you said you are waiting for a judicial review from high court for your brother's eu1a application on February 16. Would you like to share the outcome please. Thanks

Hi NRazaPk

My brother case is still in High Court, we didn't get Full hearing date yet ?

i will keep you guys update.

The deciding officer stated that the application was refused because the applicant did not submit satisfactory evidence of the following:
• Dependent on EU citizen, including dependence prior to residing in the State, or
• Evidence of membership of EU citizen’s household prior to residing in the State, or
• Medical evidence


the above was the response for refusal, very general, I have appealed well its called a judicial rerview with a solicitor not sent any extra documents as my lawyer stated that we had sufficient documents to prove dependency and the case should be overturned.
We are waiting they should issue another fam temp stamp 4, we did get one issued and it got expired in march this year.
I am stressed about the EU referendum , but have been told it will take 2 years plus for England to exit the EU, nevertheless we are all worked up as have moved permanently to Ireland, really have nowhere to go apart to back to my home country Kenya if he is refused

The deciding officer stated that the application was refused because the applicant did not submit satisfactory evidence of the following:
• Dependent on EU citizen, including dependence prior to residing in the State, or
• Evidence of membership of EU citizen’s household prior to residing in the State, or
• Medical evidence


the above was the response for refusal, very general, I have appealed well its called a judicial rerview with a solicitor not sent any extra documents as my lawyer stated that we had sufficient documents to prove dependency and the case should be overturned.
We are waiting they should issue another fam temp stamp 4, we did get one issued and it got expired in march this year.
I am stressed about the EU referendum , but have been told it will take 2 years plus for England to exit the EU, nevertheless we are all worked up as have moved permanently to Ireland, really have nowhere to go apart to back to my home country Kenya if he is refused

reshma1 wrote:The deciding officer stated that the application was refused because the applicant did not submit satisfactory evidence of the following:
• Dependent on EU citizen, including dependence prior to residing in the State, or
• Evidence of membership of EU citizen’s household prior to residing in the State, or
• Medical evidence


the above was the response for refusal, very general, I have appealed well its called a judicial rerview with a solicitor not sent any extra documents as my lawyer stated that we had sufficient documents to prove dependency and the case should be overturned.
We are waiting they should issue another fam temp stamp 4, we did get one issued and it got expired in march this year.
I am stressed about the EU referendum , but have been told it will take 2 years plus for England to exit the EU, nevertheless we are all worked up as have moved permanently to Ireland, really have nowhere to go apart to back to my home country Kenya if he is refused

Hi Reshma,
Good Afternoon!

Thank you for posting your experience with us. Now can you please elaborate why your lawyer pursued a Judicial Review? Did the INIS/ Minister of Justice not offer a Review option with a form EU4 ?

I would like to hear your inputs in this regard. If you took the path of Judicial Review you are looking at a considerable amount of time.
Please advise.

Thank you,
Best regards,

Aaron.
P.S.: There is a difference between a "form EU4 review of decision" and a "Judicial Review".

Hello Aaron
not sure what the difference is between the two, I think we are going for a judicial review.
We have just heard back and they have asked for more documentation to prove he is a permitted family member they are now stating he Is not a permitted family member although they issued the temp stamp 4 in Dec last year which expired in march this year. we are writing back to them as it seems they have not even looked at the evidence sent to them.
we basically have to send all the evidence again and fresh evidence of exercising eu treaty rights, I will update you all. In the mean time I am shocked we have received a response in 4 weeks for judicial review at all as it says there are huge delays. I am not sure what this means. My lawyer states they need to state in writing of the decision that my brother is not a permitted family member and they haven't done that.
Malik have you heard anything in the high court?

As an extended (permitted) family member you can apply but it is nearly impossible for you
to get any luck.
I know of many cases here and all they recieve is refusals and long un answered waiting.
its getting worse day by day
Try some other country.