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Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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clownfish
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Ireland

Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by clownfish » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:13 am

Suppose hypothetically a non-EU wants to apply to Irish citizenship, but mostly for the purpose of free movement within the EU. Staying in Ireland long term is not in their plans, so they wonder if it's worth to stay another 1-2 years to apply for naturalization.

What is your opinion on this matter - is there any issue to keep in mind apart from the hassle of waiting potentially for a long time?

Is there any rule that prevents people from obtaining citizenship and moving abroad indefinitely?

Is there any risk of citizenship cancellation for someone who gets it and moves abroad only a few months later?

joker
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Ireland

Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by joker » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:21 am

Bad idea morally wrong and legally questionable behaviour what if someone did the same in your own country?

Obie
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Ireland

Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by Obie » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:55 am

joker wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:21 am
Bad idea morally wrong and legally questionable behaviour what if someone did the same in your own country?
May I ask that you elaborate on the morally wrong and legally questionable aspect of this, as there is nothing in legislation that prevents this.

There is of course procedure to be followed by people who leave the state for excessive period, by morally and legally questionable seem to push it a bit far.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

Vorona
- thin ice -
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Ireland

Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by Vorona » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:11 pm

This could be helpful:
ireland/travelling-after-applying-for-c ... 12083.html

Applicants are expected to live in the State. It doesn't stop you from leaving but Minister can exercise their power and revoke the citizenship if they satisfied that person does not live in the State on a permanent basis and have not submitted retention form.

littlerr
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by littlerr » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:37 pm

It is not possible to revoke one’s citizenship if someone simply changes their mind and decides to leave Ireland after they get their citizenship. The conditions where one’s citizenship can be revoked are defined strictly in the constitution. Ireland is one of the few countries in developed world that doesn’t have any form of residency requirement after naturalisation.

The only requirement is to declare the intention to retain the citizenship annually after leaving the state for 7 years. Even that has never been in use. There is simply no resource or technically viable solution for them to check where you live, nor do they care.

Obie
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by Obie » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:43 pm

Vorona wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:11 pm
person does not live in the State on a permanent basis and have not submitted retention form.
That I understand, but it a far cry from what the OP was saying.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

Obie
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by Obie » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:48 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:37 pm
It is not possible to revoke one’s citizenship if someone simply changes their mind and decides to leave Ireland after they get their citizenship. The conditions where one’s citizenship can be revoked are defined strictly in the constitution. Ireland is one of the few countries in developed world that doesn’t have any form of residency requirement after naturalisation.

The only requirement is to declare the intention to retain the citizenship annually after leaving the state for 7 years. Even that has never been in use. There is simply no resource or technically viable solution for them to check where you live, nor do they care.
The minister of Justice has a lot on her hands to be concerned about the whereabout of a naturalised citizen, unless that individual commits act of terrorism or come to her immediate attention.

Worth noting the citizenship does not get revoked by default after the 7 years lack of residence, but the minister may take steps to do so.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

zaza7625
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Georgia

Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by zaza7625 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:29 pm

littlerr wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:37 pm
It is not possible to revoke one’s citizenship if someone simply changes their mind and decides to leave Ireland after they get their citizenship. The conditions where one’s citizenship can be revoked are defined strictly in the constitution. Ireland is one of the few countries in developed world that doesn’t have any form of residency requirement after naturalisation.

The only requirement is to declare the intention to retain the citizenship annually after leaving the state for 7 years. Even that has never been in use. There is simply no resource or technically viable solution for them to check where you live, nor do they care.
hi littlrr
If i get well, somone has to declare about his/her absence out of country after 7 years passed not resident in the state or straght after following year of person's absence?
In other hand,if somone declares about his/her absence out of the state, he or she voluntarily gives information to ireland that he/she does not reside in the state

littlerr
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by littlerr » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:24 pm

This is a constitutional requirement. You must do this annually once you have leave the state for 7 years.

What's the fuss about 'voluntarily gives information to ireland that he/she does not reside in the state'? What's the issue?

Obie
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by Obie » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:52 pm

You are right there should be no issue registering after 7 years, but the requirement is not constitutional, it is more legislative, and the court has yet to rule on it compatibility with the constitution.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

littlerr
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by littlerr » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:02 pm

Yeah you are right. It’s legislative.

zaza7625
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by zaza7625 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:33 pm

littlerr wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:24 pm
This is a constitutional requirement. You must do this annually once you have leave the state for 7 years.

What's the fuss about 'voluntarily gives information to ireland that he/she does not reside in the state'? What's the issue?
prevoisly said by you that probably no one knows where naturalised person resides,here or out of the state,it cant be determined unless severe crime or act of terorrism is commited, thats what i meant. So if you leave the state and you do not declare your absence,how they eventually know that you are not in the state. But if you visit consulate elsewhere and declare that you have an intention to keep the citizenship, they certainly will know that you are not residing in the state.
As for second issue about 7 years: you said once you have left the state for seven years. What happens after seven years? A bit confusing

littlerr
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by littlerr » Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:46 pm

So they know where you live. So what? Do you fear they are going to eat you?

It’s a black and white rule. After 7 years, you need to declare your intention to retain your citizenship every year. If you stop doing that, it is within the minister’s rights to revoke your citizenship.

zaza7625
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by zaza7625 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:58 pm

littlerr wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:46 pm
So they know where you live. So what? Do you fear they are going to eat you?

It’s a black and white rule. After 7 years, you need to declare your intention to retain your citizenship every year. If you stop doing that, it is within the minister’s rights to revoke your citizenship.
be little bit polite towards peoole, do not think you are a mighty one if somone asks you something ,dont be rude person . No one is gonna eat me and i dont have a fear of anything, i just wanted hear an information about above mentioned from any members if this forum.

punkGit81
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by punkGit81 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:19 am

The only requirement is to declare the intention to retain the citizenship annually after leaving the state for 7 years. Even that has never been in use. There is simply no resource or technically viable solution for them to check where you live, nor do they care.
wondering about this too, as I'm in a situation where I might leave the state at least temporarily due to family reasons abroad in a few months, and now I should consider if it's worth waiting to get my citizenship -which, with the current state of things, can take many years- or just give up on the idea:
  • is there any figure on how many citizenships are revoked on the basis of having left the country?
  • from what I read here https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizen ... tizenship/ or elsewhere, the requirement to declare your intention to retain citizenship starts from the moment that you leave the country, not from the 7 years, but after 7 years living abroad if you didn't declare your intention annually, your citizenship can be revoked - is this right? Does this mean that, for instance, if I don't submit a declaration on year 5, the decision can still be made, hypothetically, to revoke my citizenship? - Just trying to understand how this works on paper, albeit it might not get applied much.
  • based on the same requirement, if you're back on year 3, does the 7-year count start from 0 if you leave again or from 3? In other words, does the 7-year period need to be continuous or it doesn't matter?
  • for EU folks at least, isn't this rule against EU freedom of movement and possibly a form of discrimination between EU citizens?

littlerr
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by littlerr » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:22 pm

wondering about this too, as I'm in a situation where I might leave the state at least temporarily due to family reasons abroad in a few months, and now I should consider if it's worth waiting to get my citizenship -which, with the current state of things, can take many years- or just give up on the idea.
You can simply apply for citizenship and then leave the state. (Of course you need to wait till you get your passport back.) You need to inform INIS if you intend to leave for more than 6 weeks, and provide them with a valid reason.
is there any figure on how many citizenships are revoked on the basis of having left the country?
This has never been invoked before (or at least anyone is aware of). INIS does not have any valid means of tracking whether a person is living in the state or not.
from what I read here https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizen ... tizenship/ or elsewhere, the requirement to declare your intention to retain citizenship starts from the moment that you leave the country, not from the 7 years, but after 7 years living abroad if you didn't declare your intention annually, your citizenship can be revoked - is this right? Does this mean that, for instance, if I don't submit a declaration on year 5, the decision can still be made, hypothetically, to revoke my citizenship? - Just trying to understand how this works on paper, albeit it might not get applied much.
It depends on how you interpret the wording of the Citizenship Act 1956. Since it has never been invoked publicly before, nobody really knows. Court challenges are very likely should the minister try to invoke it in future.
based on the same requirement, if you're back on year 3, does the 7-year count start from 0 if you leave again or from 3? In other words, does the 7-year period need to be continuous or it doesn't matter?
The Citizenship Act 1956 is very clear on this: 'ordinarily resident outside Ireland (otherwise than in the public service) for a continuous period of seven years'.
for EU folks at least, isn't this rule against EU freedom of movement and possibly a form of discrimination between EU citizens?
Freedom of movement is about residency, not acquisition of nationality.
also found this recent article - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.4481073 - and wondering if this is going to change anything at all, in one direction or the other?
The judge declared Section 19.2 & 19.3 unconstitutional, because it doesn't provide procedural safeguards. Therefore, they would have to amend the legislation to allow for this.

ailA2019
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Ireland

Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by ailA2019 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:12 pm

For a broad range of reasons. the Dept not accept a fast track Irish citizenship for non-EU doctors, nurses and hospital workers.

soon after got approval, they move to an EU country for work, or to the wealthiest country in the Middle East where they can earn almost DOUBLE their current salaries.

Not all of them, but some

a.s.b.o
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by a.s.b.o » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:02 pm

Sending a form to INIS to confirm your intent to retain citizenship takes next to no time. Ask a local Catholic Church minister to witness the form and this wold suffice in terms of witnessing it, so no extra expenses. What's the problem?

punkGit81
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by punkGit81 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:57 pm

Thanks a lot for this, this is all great info! About informing INIS that I intend to be abroad for more than 6 weeks after having sent my application in, how would I do that? Send them an email with my application no. and declaring my intent and reason (eg visit family and working from there for few weeks as I'm allowed to work from home, for instance)? I thought the 6-week period was only relevent prior to the application, had no idea it still applied after (as long as you were not changing your residency abroad, I thought it was ok even spending the whole summer away), but good to know
littlerr wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:22 pm
wondering about this too, as I'm in a situation where I might leave the state at least temporarily due to family reasons abroad in a few months, and now I should consider if it's worth waiting to get my citizenship -which, with the current state of things, can take many years- or just give up on the idea.
You can simply apply for citizenship and then leave the state. (Of course you need to wait till you get your passport back.) You need to inform INIS if you intend to leave for more than 6 weeks, and provide them with a valid reason.
is there any figure on how many citizenships are revoked on the basis of having left the country?
This has never been invoked before (or at least anyone is aware of). INIS does not have any valid means of tracking whether a person is living in the state or not.
from what I read here https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizen ... tizenship/ or elsewhere, the requirement to declare your intention to retain citizenship starts from the moment that you leave the country, not from the 7 years, but after 7 years living abroad if you didn't declare your intention annually, your citizenship can be revoked - is this right? Does this mean that, for instance, if I don't submit a declaration on year 5, the decision can still be made, hypothetically, to revoke my citizenship? - Just trying to understand how this works on paper, albeit it might not get applied much.
It depends on how you interpret the wording of the Citizenship Act 1956. Since it has never been invoked publicly before, nobody really knows. Court challenges are very likely should the minister try to invoke it in future.
based on the same requirement, if you're back on year 3, does the 7-year count start from 0 if you leave again or from 3? In other words, does the 7-year period need to be continuous or it doesn't matter?
The Citizenship Act 1956 is very clear on this: 'ordinarily resident outside Ireland (otherwise than in the public service) for a continuous period of seven years'.
for EU folks at least, isn't this rule against EU freedom of movement and possibly a form of discrimination between EU citizens?
Freedom of movement is about residency, not acquisition of nationality.
also found this recent article - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-a ... -1.4481073 - and wondering if this is going to change anything at all, in one direction or the other?
The judge declared Section 19.2 & 19.3 unconstitutional, because it doesn't provide procedural safeguards. Therefore, they would have to amend the legislation to allow for this.

littlerr
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China

Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by littlerr » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:51 pm

punkGit81 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:57 pm
Thanks a lot for this, this is all great info! About informing INIS that I intend to be abroad for more than 6 weeks after having sent my application in, how would I do that? Send them an email with my application no. and declaring my intent and reason (eg visit family and working from there for few weeks as I'm allowed to work from home, for instance)? I thought the 6-week period was only relevent prior to the application, had no idea it still applied after (as long as you were not changing your residency abroad, I thought it was ok even spending the whole summer away), but good to know
You can send them an email or letter with your application number and your name to explain the reason. This is clarified in the citizenship website:

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizen ... alisation/
If you are outside the State for longer than 6 weeks after you submit your application, you must notify ISD by letter or email to explain why.

punkGit81
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Re: Leaving Ireland after naturalisation

Post by punkGit81 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:48 am

Thanks - missed that note!

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