Minister of Justice answers concerning Citizenship

There you go!, its a traffic offense and if you've never been convicted of any offenses regarding how many offenses you've had, then you are 100% clean as far as I am concerned. Up to 1 miillion people every year could commit traffic offenses each year and that doesnt mean that they are bad in any way shape or form. Some or should I say all countries like the UK dont include traffic offense as their naturalisation decision making as it is totally and utter nonsense!.

Deferral depends on individual cases, someone with conviction on just one traffic offense could be deferred but another with with multiple traffic offense but never been to court should not be deferred because he/she has never committed any crimes!. ( In a situation like mine, (No excuse for the attitude) I went to court for shoplifting a €4 Artificial Nails...at the age of 18 (10 yrs ago - 1st & last offence)...does that make me a criminal? Just because I went to court? Is going to court the difference between deferral & non deferral...Off course a CONVICTION will make a difference.

Again length of time these offenses are committed in being put into account as well. i.e someone with conviction on just one traffic offense could be deferred if the conviction was less than one year old, but another person with the exact conviction on just one traffic offense will not be deferred because the conviction was 5 years ago. Thats hows it works[/quote]
ABSOLUTELY makes sense...I agree...
The minister needs to make what constitute as "of good character" very clear... Off course, then again, he has absolute discretion on whom to grant & whom to refuse.

Just to clarify my thoughts, I think Irish language skills should be an alternative option to English ones (of course realistically immigrants are unlikely to feel more fluent in Irish than in English ... But after all this is the first language of the country so it should be an option).

And about politics, I am really talking very basics like knowing how the 2 chambers of the parliament get elected and what is their role; having some basics about the 2 main political parties and the different stages Ireland went through in the past 80 years (independence, troubles, poor economics, joining the EU, Celtic Tiger, recession).

Agree there is no point in giving an advanced exam about Irish history and politics, which a lot of native citizens could fail anyway.

But I agree this part is not as much of a no brained as a language test as it is not as easy to define what the right requirements are and it wouldn't be as easy to implement.

Firstly Irish Language is out of context because so many born Irish people cant even speak Irish language, IMAO. English is the official language in Ireland and nobody needs to learn Irish unless they feel the need.

I must also stress that I have never seen anyone here in Ireland that does not know a word of English language!, and I have dealt with people from various ethnics and backgrounds!

Secondly, I think we agree in most things but some of you are failing to see and understand the bigger picture. Yes I think learning English, and knowing Irish History and culture is good, but as most of you have hinted, it adds more burden to applicants!. If this method is used now with the current requirements of naturalisation application, then Ireland might be breaking Human rights lol. Ireland would be one of the worst countries to get a citizenship from because they pose too much burden to the people that have contributed to the Irish society and have made Ireland their home irrespective of their nationality!.

If this whole Citizenship-Test should be brought in place then some requirements/law need to be scrapped!. i.e Being in the Minister's discretion to grant or refuse citizenship, scrapping Road traffic offenses and making it an entitlement once you met all the requirements needed to apply for naturalisation. Only then that I will welcome with open arms, the Citizenship-Test.

Whilst English might be an official language in Ireland, it is indeed second official language. The Irish governments maintains that, Gaelic/Irish is and remains the first Official language of the Island of Ireland. for example if one wants to pursue a legal a career in Ireland, they must learn Irish. simples!

I am not sure which human right you are talking about IntegratedMigrant. A friend of mine became French and there was a language test and an interview to check some basic knowledge. Another became Canadian and she also went through a quiz about Canadian history and politics. In both cases it was no problem for them because the requirements were pretty basic. As far as I know the UK, the US and Germany are doing the same type of thing (and I am sure many other countries do).

How would Ireland be breaking human rights and be such a black sheep compared to others?

And yes I think everybody is saying this should come with clarifications about minor offences, so one extra (small) burden, but in exchange one extra guarantee not to get refused for a silly reason.

And yes Irish is the first official language of Ireland. Obviously English is one as well and is the one immigrants would use. But as a country if there is a language requirement Ireland would have to offer a choice between the 2 languages, even though almost no one would pick Irish.

Anyway ... There is no change coming anytime soon and we won't rewrite the law here

dalebutt wrote:Whilst English might be an official language in Ireland, it is indeed second official language. The Irish governments maintains that, Gaelic/Irish is and remains the first Official language of the Island of Ireland. for example if one wants to pursue a legal a career in Ireland, they must learn Irish. simples!

Troll detected!.

English is the official language in Ireland whilst Irish is the first language ofcourse which I have said before!.

Again like I said if you can read properly. English is the official language in Ireland and nobody needs to learn Irish unless they feel the need.

jeupsy wrote:I am not sure which human right you are talking about IntegratedMigrant.

Thats was sarcasm Jeupsy! Jess I thought you could've easily spotted that!

jeupsy wrote:A friend of mine became French and there was a language test and an interview to check some basic knowledge. Another became Canadian and she also went through a quiz about Canadian history and politics. In both cases it was no problem for them because the requirements were pretty basic. As far as I know the UK, the US and Germany are doing the same type of thing (and I am sure many other countries do).

You've mentioned all these countries that do Citizenship-Test but not once you've said that its in their Minister's discretion to grant or refuse citizenship, nor have you mentioned about them being refused for traffic offenses etc..

Read my last post properly and you'll fully understood what I meant. Citizenship-Test is good!, but not with the burden that the Irish citizenship applicants currently face!. It is crucial that they scrap some requirements in-order to bring in this so called Citizenship-Test. And I know for a fact that the Irish government do not want that because they want who citizenship is given to, to be determined by the absolute power of the Minister and never an entitlement. The way it currently stands, it is so easy to become Citizen of another country that of Ireland because of the Ministers power logically!. I've made my point and am done with this argument.

The secretary of state in the UK reserves the right to refuse to grant citizenship without even explaining for refusal, Her decision is final and it is not appealable. Irish is not the first Language but the first official language, being first and being first official are 2 separate things

Guys please move on thats not up to us. So if INIS want to change or implement the citizenship law they will do. Fair enough you speak english Irish is the the first language of Ireland even new Irish generation can't speak Irish.

Alan Shatter is the best politician and TD he changed the things and he gave us chance to be part of Irish Society. Long Live Alan Shatter.

Guys please move on thats not up to us. So if INIS want to change or implement the citizenship law they will do. Fair enough you speak english Irish is the the first language of Ireland even new Irish generation can't speak Irish.

Alan Shatter is the best politician and TD he changed the things and he gave us chance to be part of Irish Society. Long Live Alan Shatter.

Positive reply at last.

I got my approval at last.