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Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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coggles
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Ireland

Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by coggles » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:16 am

Hi, I'm trying to see if I have any case at all to apply for naturalisation early. Feel free to throw me out, just looking for opinions.

I've lived in Ireland for 3 years continuously (with a few months working in the UK for my Irish company remotely due to COVID, now back in Ireland). My mother has Irish citizenship through her grandfather but only gained this after my birth.

I received this from the citizenship help desk and wondered if the condition for length of stay (4 years in the last 8 ) could be waived due to Irish association through family?:
Naturalisation
The conditions for naturalisation are as follows:

· You must (i) be of full age (i.e. eighteen years or older, or
married if younger than eighteen) or (ii) a minor born in the
State
· You must be of good character
· You must have had a period of one (1) year’s continuous reckonable
residence in the State immediately before the date of the
application and,
· during the eight (8) years preceding that have had a total
reckonable residence in the State amounting to four (4) years.

· You must intend in good faith to continue to reside in the State
after naturalisation.
· You must make a declaration of fidelity to the nation and loyalty
to the State.

The Minister for Justice and Equality has power (in his or her absolute
discretion) to waive one or more of the above conditions for naturalisation
in certain circumstances as follows:

· Where the person is of Irish descent or of Irish associations *, or
is a parent or guardian applying on behalf of a minor child of Irish
descent or Irish associations.
· Where the person has an entitlement to Irish citizenship if he or she
was born on the island of Ireland.
· Where the person is a naturalised parent applying on behalf of their
minor child.
· Where the person is the spouse or civil partner of an Irish citizen
or a naturalised person.
· Where the person has been resident abroad in the employment of the
Irish public service.
· Where the person is recognised as a refugee (under the 1951 Geneva
Convention relating to the Status of Refugees) or a stateless person (under
the 1954 UN Convention regarding Stateless Persons).

· Irish association means related by blood, affinity or adoption to a
person who is an Irish citizen

littlerr
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Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by littlerr » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:03 pm

You can apply early based on Irish association. It would be up to the Minister to decide whether this association is strong enough to waive a few years’ residence requirements, and such applications usually take much longer to process.

coggles
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Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Ireland

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by coggles » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm

I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.

DanaMarie
Member
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:34 pm
Ireland

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by DanaMarie » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:45 pm

coggles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm
I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.
Just a thought....were you born after 1986 then? If so you're out of luck but if you were born before 1986 and she registered between 1956 and 1986 even if after you were born then you can apply through the FBR. Though they are so backed up at this point that it's entirely possible a naturalization application could be quicker, but it would save you the money of a ceremony so there is that.

littlerr
Diamond Member
Posts: 1757
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by littlerr » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:51 pm

coggles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm
I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.
Each minister uses their own judgment. Some were very strict on minor mistakes, while some are much more lenient.

The current Minister of Justice was only appointed in June this year and she has only started signing off the first batch of applications this month. It would be very unlikely for you to be able to find anyone whose application was based on Irish associations and were signed off by her.

Shakey
Newbie
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by Shakey » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:49 pm

coggles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm
I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.
I applied under the same circumstances in January with four years residency.

The way things are going due to COVID I will have five years in the bag soon so my experiment testing this route will probably not bear fruit with regards to "fast tracking"

Shakey
Newbie
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by Shakey » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm

Shakey wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:49 pm
coggles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm
I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.
I applied under the same circumstances in January with four years residency.

The way things are going due to COVID I will have five years in the bag soon so my experiment testing this route will probably not bear fruit with regards to "fast tracking"
I might have spoken to soon. Just received a letter today requesting evidence of my mothers "entitlement to Irish Citizenship". Not entirely sure what they want as I sent them her FBR cert, Irish passport and all relevant birth certs. Guess I resend them, it wouldn't be the first time they ask for the same documents from what I can gather! Anyway at least they have looked at my application!

coggles
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Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Ireland

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by coggles » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:27 am

Shakey wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm
Shakey wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:49 pm
coggles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm
I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.
I applied under the same circumstances in January with four years residency.

The way things are going due to COVID I will have five years in the bag soon so my experiment testing this route will probably not bear fruit with regards to "fast tracking"
I might have spoken to soon. Just received a letter today requesting evidence of my mothers "entitlement to Irish Citizenship". Not entirely sure what they want as I sent them her FBR cert, Irish passport and all relevant birth certs. Guess I resend them, it wouldn't be the first time they ask for the same documents from what I can gather! Anyway at least they have looked at my application!
Thanks for the update hope it goes well for you. I'm in 2 minds now about requesting to work remote from the UK (covid) which really would forfeit my right to apply (my company is going fully remote and has just offered the chance to work from the UK where my family are based currently). My 3 years could be used though if I come back before the 8 and stay for 2 years continuously.

handoubleu
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Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:00 am
United States of America

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by handoubleu » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:22 pm

I applied this route as well in November 2019. Last letter I received was in March that they were processing my application based on my Irish associations (my mother is the FBR, grandmother has her citizenship and great grandmother was born here). When I applied I had only been living in Ireland for about 1 year. I updated them when I moved to let them know my new address as well as the fact my current permission/stamp is good until next autumn (which I intend to continue to renew). In all I now have almost two years already and will have 2 and half by the time my new permission is due to renew. I haven't heard anything since though.

coggles
Newly Registered
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Ireland

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by coggles » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:00 pm

handoubleu wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:22 pm
I applied this route as well in November 2019. Last letter I received was in March that they were processing my application based on my Irish associations (my mother is the FBR, grandmother has her citizenship and great grandmother was born here). When I applied I had only been living in Ireland for about 1 year. I updated them when I moved to let them know my new address as well as the fact my current permission/stamp is good until next autumn (which I intend to continue to renew). In all I now have almost two years already and will have 2 and half by the time my new permission is due to renew. I haven't heard anything since though.
Did your mother or grandmother have citizenship before you were born?

handoubleu
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Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by handoubleu » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:46 pm

coggles wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:00 pm
handoubleu wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:22 pm
I applied this route as well in November 2019. Last letter I received was in March that they were processing my application based on my Irish associations (my mother is the FBR, grandmother has her citizenship and great grandmother was born here). When I applied I had only been living in Ireland for about 1 year. I updated them when I moved to let them know my new address as well as the fact my current permission/stamp is good until next autumn (which I intend to continue to renew). In all I now have almost two years already and will have 2 and half by the time my new permission is due to renew. I haven't heard anything since though.
Did your mother or grandmother have citizenship before you were born?
Hi there,

My mother did not file until after I was born. My grandmother filed before I was born, but she was not born in Ireland so I could not use her under the Foreign Births Registration either. I think I will be an interesting case as my aunt also filed for citizenship based on FBR so I have quite a few connections coupled with the time I have spent actually living here. I imagine I won't hear anything until around year 3 to be honest.

Shakey
Newbie
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by Shakey » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:35 pm

coggles wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:27 am
Shakey wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:12 pm
Shakey wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:49 pm
coggles wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:57 pm
I see, thanks. Does anyone here have experience of applying through having a parent who has citizenship but after your birth?

I'm just wondering if it is a strong enough connection to warrant a waive.
I applied under the same circumstances in January with four years residency.

The way things are going due to COVID I will have five years in the bag soon so my experiment testing this route will probably not bear fruit with regards to "fast tracking"
I might have spoken to soon. Just received a letter today requesting evidence of my mothers "entitlement to Irish Citizenship". Not entirely sure what they want as I sent them her FBR cert, Irish passport and all relevant birth certs. Guess I resend them, it wouldn't be the first time they ask for the same documents from what I can gather! Anyway at least they have looked at my application!
Thanks for the update hope it goes well for you. I'm in 2 minds now about requesting to work remote from the UK (covid) which really would forfeit my right to apply (my company is going fully remote and has just offered the chance to work from the UK where my family are based currently). My 3 years could be used though if I come back before the 8 and stay for 2 years continuously.
I got an email last week saying my application is "well advanced" which in most cases I would bat off as generic but the start of the email was anything but (reference to paperwork I sent in regarding my mothers Irish citizenship) so we shall see in the coming weeks if I really am "well advanced"!

If I do receive citizenship soon I would say your situation is the same as mine therefore applying early would appear to work as you are genuine Irish descent and not "ascent" as they call the people applying with Irish kids which I believe make up a good bulk of Irish Associations applications.

I will be five years on the 1st Feb so it will definitely be worth it time wise when you factor in the current processing times. That's if I do turn out to be "well advanced" :D

handoubleu
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Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:00 am
United States of America

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by handoubleu » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:59 pm

I have no idea how I missed this before, but they are saying applications based on Irish Association take an excess of 30 months to process. So I think I am right to say I will hear closer to my 3 year period.

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizen ... ociations/

Shakey
Newbie
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by Shakey » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:37 pm

handoubleu wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:59 pm
I have no idea how I missed this before, but they are saying applications based on Irish Association take an excess of 30 months to process. So I think I am right to say I will hear closer to my 3 year period.

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizen ... ociations/
Yes but this will include all of the applicants that are applying by "ascent" which this page now clearly states they do not really consider as Irish associations.

If you get your approval letter anywhere before six years in reality it has been "fast track".

As I said I will be a useful test case as I have just hit five years residence but I applied at the start of January last year. The way I see it if I get approval at any point this year it will have shaved sometime off. If not, so be it because ultimately citizenship by association is a much more valuable form of citizenship because of this clause in the citizenship act:

9.—(1) The Minister may revoke a certificate of naturalisation if he is satisfied—

(c) that (except in the case of a certificate of naturalisation which is issued to a person of Irish descent or associations) the person to whom it is granted has been ordinarily resident outside Ireland (otherwise than in the public service) for a continuous period of seven years and without reasonable excuse has not during that period registered annually in the prescribed manner his name and a declaration of his intention to retain Irish citizenship with an Irish diplomatic mission or consular office or with the Minister,

Whilst I do not believe there will ever have been many revocations due to this clause you never know what will happen in the future. It is on the statute book and a future minister might discover it as a way of looking "tough" on immigration.

coggles
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Ireland

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by coggles » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:55 pm

Hey,

Thanks for the updates.
Covid threw a spanner in the works as I've spent time outside of Ireland now but still working for an Irish company. Who knows what will happen but I have 3 years paying Irish taxes in a few months. My mother has Irish citizenship through her grandfather. I'll probably send in an application on the 3 years mark in April and get the ball rolling though.

wolfpacked
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Russia

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by wolfpacked » Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:40 pm

Question:

As a Non-EU I've been in IE for a couple of years now. Based on the below,
The Minister for Justice and Equality has power (in his or her absolute
discretion) to waive one or more of the above conditions for naturalisation
in certain circumstances as follows:
...
  • Where the person has been resident abroad in the public service.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/m ... ation.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1956 ... ed/en/html

(it doesn't specify public service to be Irish there)

I wonder about the following. Prior to IE, I worked in a public organization in the U.S. for a couple of years. It is a United Nations-type entity, so when I was in the U.S. I was technically a public servant to international community from my home country.

Do you think I have a case for asking for a waiver after 3 years in IE?

coggles
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Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:09 am
Ireland

Re: Naturalisation - waive of condition?

Post by coggles » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:25 am

wolfpacked wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 12:40 pm
Question:

As a Non-EU I've been in IE for a couple of years now. Based on the below,
The Minister for Justice and Equality has power (in his or her absolute
discretion) to waive one or more of the above conditions for naturalisation
in certain circumstances as follows:
...
  • Where the person has been resident abroad in the public service.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/m ... ation.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1956 ... ed/en/html

(it doesn't specify public service to be Irish there)

I wonder about the following. Prior to IE, I worked in a public organization in the U.S. for a couple of years. It is a United Nations-type entity, so when I was in the U.S. I was technically a public servant to international community from my home country.

Do you think I have a case for asking for a waiver after 3 years in IE?

I would say no as it refers to working in Irish public service. I'm pretty much giving up on applying :(

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