ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

No irish visa required if you have any Residence Card

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

Muttsnuts
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:58 pm

Post by Muttsnuts » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
ChIrl wrote:On other note, what stamp they will put in the passport?
In theory they should not stamp your passport if you have a Residence Card. You should ask them not to stamp it, and refer to the SI which prohibits stamping passports when then holder has a Residence Card.

But...

The way that Ireland has allowed Residence Card holders to enter the country means they still legally make a distinction between RCs that Ireland has issued and RCs that other member states have issued. So technically speaking, in the way Irish law is presently written, the prohibition is on stamping passports of people with Irish issued Residence Cards.


Also a thought on naming of RCs in different countries. The Irish law describes the Residence Card wording in English. We have seen how it is different in the UK. What are the words on the RC in Germany? I suspect it is not what is in the Irish regulation.
I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

The Residence Card holders passport should not be stamped if entering visa free either.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:20 pm

Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.
S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

Muttsnuts
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:58 pm

Post by Muttsnuts » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:37 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.
S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

ChIrl
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:50 am

Post by ChIrl » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am

Irish embassy london says that immigration offcials migh object as UK Residence Card says "Residence Card of a Family member of an EEA National" while Irish statutory talks about "Residence card of an Union member"

He said Union and EEA National are different. LOL :)
Muttsnuts wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.
S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

maviesk
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:08 am

Post by maviesk » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:49 pm

So I want to get something absolutely straight in my mind..

I'm an Irish citizen and my partner is a Turkish national.. He has said residency card in his passport as a family member of an EEA national. Despite the fact that I'm Irish, he is able to enter the republic with me? I ask that because I thought that the one place where we can't travel to is Ireland (since I'm an Irish citizen exercising my EU rights in a third country, i.e. the UK).. We're planning on getting a train from Belfast to Dublin next month, so if a check is carried out (happens now and again), I'm planning to print this order and highlight the relevant text!

MrsA2009
Newly Registered
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:37 pm

Post by MrsA2009 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:54 pm

Im an Irish citzen and my husband has an UK Residence card: family member of an EEA national. We are thinking of going to Ireland next weekend. Do you think he will be refused entry?

I read ChIrl post about the response the Irish embassy in London gave.. Surley they cant refuse him because his card says eea national and not union citzen. Any advice on what we could say should we have any problems?

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Post by newbieholland » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:26 pm

repeat post.. can you please delete this admin

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 14657
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Post by Obie » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:53 pm

I have found two cases which indicates that Irish Courts have ruled that a residence card issued by one member state can exempt its holder from the visa requirements when the move to another member state , a very long time ago.

This can be used in UK courts against UKBA, and force a tribunal or High court judge to make reference to ECJ if they don't accept it.

Zada -v- MJELR & Anor

Raducan & Anor -v- MJELR & Ors
Black life matters.

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by newbieholland » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:53 pm

I did manage to enter Ireland with my Residence permit from Holland. I was travelling alone and took less than a minute for the GNIB officer to decide to let me in and put a stamp on my passport. I did argue to stop him from putting the stamp however he threatened to deport me if I refuse. :lol:

Since I was travelling alone I dint bother to pursue it any more and walked out of Immigration control with a stamp saying no right`s to work and a limited leave to remail in ireland.
I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)

ChIrl
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:50 am

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by ChIrl » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Good to hear that. My friend is planning to travel to IRL based on the residence card issued in UK.

What type of Residence card Holland issues? Does the Residence card contain "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen"?

Did Garda ask any questions?
newbieholland wrote:I did manage to enter Ireland with my Residence permit from Holland. I was travelling alone and took less than a minute for the GNIB officer to decide to let me in and put a stamp on my passport. I did argue to stop him from putting the stamp however he threatened to deport me if I refuse. :lol:

Since I was travelling alone I dint bother to pursue it any more and walked out of Immigration control with a stamp saying no right`s to work and a limited leave to remail in ireland.
I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by newbieholland » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:54 pm

ChIrl wrote:Good to hear that. My friend is planning to travel to IRL based on the residence card issued in UK.

What type of Residence card Holland issues? Does the Residence card contain "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen"?

Did Garda ask any questions?
The Dutch Residence card says Dutch Residence Permit in a small print at the bottom. Apart of that the front also has a print saying Document Type : EU.

The backside of the card mentions the permit is for family of EU national however it is in Dutch. The Garda did not even look at the backside and surprisingly did not ask me any question.


You can see the permit here
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf
but feel it will not be a great trouble for yur friend to get in.

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by newbieholland » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:14 pm

newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)
Anybody?

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by acme4242 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:31 am

newbieholland wrote:
newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)
Anybody?
Irish Law SI 656 of 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0656.html
download
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf
SI 656 of 2006 wrote: (4) An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.

Muttsnuts
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:58 pm

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by Muttsnuts » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:01 pm

acme4242 wrote:
newbieholland wrote:
newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)
Anybody?
Irish Law SI 656 of 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0656.html
download
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf
SI 656 of 2006 wrote: (4) An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.
Unfortunately that is the Irish Regulation which defines "residence card" as an EU FAM GNIB Card issued by the Irish authorities ONLY. So as it stands, non EU nationals passports are getting stamped on entry even if they have a residence card from another State.

This policy is in breach of EU Directive 2004/38. The relevant legislation you should be presenting is Article 5 (3) of Directive 2004/38. However, this will not wash with GNIB Officers on entry who tend to be ars*holes as a general rule.

The only way to rectify this would be a complaint via judicial review in the High Court. It's a very minor matter though that doesn't put anyone out really so that there is unlikely to be anyone in a position to challenge this practise, despite it clearly being in breach of Directive 2004/38

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Post by acme4242 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:19 am

Muttsnuts wrote:
acme4242 wrote:
newbieholland wrote:
newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)
Anybody?
Irish Law SI 656 of 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0656.html
download
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf
SI 656 of 2006 wrote: (4) An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.
Unfortunately that is the Irish Regulation which defines "residence card" as an EU FAM GNIB Card issued by the Irish authorities ONLY. So as it stands, non EU nationals passports are getting stamped on entry even if they have a residence card from another State.

This policy is in breach of EU Directive 2004/38. The relevant legislation you should be presenting is Article 5 (3) of Directive 2004/38. However, this will not wash with GNIB Officers on entry who tend to be ars*holes as a general rule.

The only way to rectify this would be a complaint via judicial review in the High Court. It's a very minor matter though that doesn't put anyone out really so that there is unlikely to be anyone in a position to challenge this practise, despite it clearly being in breach of Directive 2004/38
yes, your right, Ireland are breaking the law on this also.
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf
2004/38/EC Art. 5.3

Incorrect transposition

Note that the residence card referred to in
regulation 4(4) is only a residence card issued
by the Irish authorities (given the definition in
regulation 2). As Article 5(3) of the Directive
means that this prohibition also applies in
respect of residence cards issued by other
Member States, it has not been properly
transposed.

Note that no reference to exit stamps, but this is
in practice unlikely as Ireland does not operate
exit controls and probably already covered by
transposition of Art 4.1

krombacher
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:21 pm
Location: berlin

Post by krombacher » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Hi, i have a German family residence card "aufenthaltskarte für familienangehörige eines unionsbürgers" for 5 years. I am a visa require national to enter the Republic of Ireland. Can i got to Dublin without my wife for a weekend and just with the family residence card and my passport?
thanks

ps: i have a married certificate too.

Muttsnuts
Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:58 pm

Post by Muttsnuts » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:28 pm

krombacher wrote:Hi, i have a German family residence card "aufenthaltskarte für familienangehörige eines unionsbürgers" for 5 years. I am a visa require national to enter the Republic of Ireland. Can i got to Dublin without my wife for a weekend and just with the family residence card and my passport?
thanks

ps: i have a married certificate too.
The Visas order that came in in APril 2011 suggests that you do not have to travel with your EU national spouse (or be joining them in Ireland). I would have thought that you do have to be travelling with them or joining them but it would seem that according to the wording, you do not have to.

However, I would make sure to check with your nearest Irish EMbassy on this point just to be on the safe side....

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Post by newbieholland » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:52 pm

I hope IRE will soon stop stamping the passport of non EU spouse of EU citizen with a residence card from another member state. Hope the UKBA be more human too.What they are doing is definitely against the EU law.
"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining."

IQU
Diamond Member
Posts: 1020
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 9:34 pm
Location: ireland

Post by IQU » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:57 pm

irish immigration stop stamp the non eu passport member of eu.i think some body have to make complaint in eu court .

newbieholland
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Post by newbieholland » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:17 am

I just happened to enter IRE from outside the EU. They stamped my passport again,and I am not happy about this at all. Are they allowed to put the stamp if you have a GNIB stamp 4? Or does it have to be an RC from another member state for getting in without the entry stamp?
"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining."

Locked
cron