No irish visa required if you have any Residence Card

Muttsnuts · Post by **Muttsnuts** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:57 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
ChIrl wrote:On other note, what stamp they will put in the passport?
In theory they should not stamp your passport if you have a Residence Card. You should ask them not to stamp it, and refer to the SI which prohibits stamping passports when then holder has a Residence Card.

But...

The way that Ireland has allowed Residence Card holders to enter the country means they still legally make a distinction between RCs that Ireland has issued and RCs that other member states have issued. So technically speaking, in the way Irish law is presently written, the prohibition is on stamping passports of people with Irish issued Residence Cards.

Also a thought on naming of RCs in different countries. The Irish law describes the Residence Card wording in English. We have seen how it is different in the UK. What are the words on the RC in Germany? I suspect it is not what is in the Irish regulation.

I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

The Residence Card holders passport should not be stamped if entering visa free either.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:20 am

Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

S.I. No. 146/2011 â€” Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called â€œResidence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

Muttsnuts · Post by **Muttsnuts** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:37 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

S.I. No. 146/2011 â€” Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called â€œResidence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

ChIrl · Post by **ChIrl** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:53 am

Irish embassy london says that immigration offcials migh object as UK Residence Card says "Residence Card of a Family member of an EEA National" while Irish statutory talks about "Residence card of an Union member"

He said Union and EEA National are different. LOL

Muttsnuts wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

S.I. No. 146/2011 â€” Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called â€œResidence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

maviesk · Post by **maviesk** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:49 pm

So I want to get something absolutely straight in my mind..

I'm an Irish citizen and my partner is a Turkish national.. He has said residency card in his passport as a family member of an EEA national. Despite the fact that I'm Irish, he is able to enter the republic with me? I ask that because I thought that the one place where we can't travel to is Ireland (since I'm an Irish citizen exercising my EU rights in a third country, i.e. the UK).. We're planning on getting a train from Belfast to Dublin next month, so if a check is carried out (happens now and again), I'm planning to print this order and highlight the relevant text!

MrsA2009 · Post by **MrsA2009** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:54 pm

Im an Irish citzen and my husband has an UK Residence card: family member of an EEA national. We are thinking of going to Ireland next weekend. Do you think he will be refused entry?

I read ChIrl post about the response the Irish embassy in London gave.. Surley they cant refuse him because his card says eea national and not union citzen. Any advice on what we could say should we have any problems?

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:26 pm

repeat post.. can you please delete this admin

Post by **Obie** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:53 pm

I have found two cases which indicates that Irish Courts have ruled that a residence card issued by one member state can exempt its holder from the visa requirements when the move to another member state , a very long time ago.

This can be used in UK courts against UKBA, and force a tribunal or High court judge to make reference to ECJ if they don't accept it.

Zada -v- MJELR & Anor

Raducan & Anor -v- MJELR & Ors

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:53 pm

I did manage to enter Ireland with my Residence permit from Holland. I was travelling alone and took less than a minute for the GNIB officer to decide to let me in and put a stamp on my passport. I did argue to stop him from putting the stamp however he threatened to deport me if I refuse.

Since I was travelling alone I dint bother to pursue it any more and walked out of Immigration control with a stamp saying no right`s to work and a limited leave to remail in ireland.
I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now

ChIrl · Post by **ChIrl** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:49 pm

Good to hear that. My friend is planning to travel to IRL based on the residence card issued in UK.

What type of Residence card Holland issues? Does the Residence card contain "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen"?

Did Garda ask any questions?

newbieholland wrote:I did manage to enter Ireland with my Residence permit from Holland. I was travelling alone and took less than a minute for the GNIB officer to decide to let me in and put a stamp on my passport. I did argue to stop him from putting the stamp however he threatened to deport me if I refuse.

Since I was travelling alone I dint bother to pursue it any more and walked out of Immigration control with a stamp saying no right`s to work and a limited leave to remail in ireland.
I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:54 pm

ChIrl wrote:Good to hear that. My friend is planning to travel to IRL based on the residence card issued in UK.

What type of Residence card Holland issues? Does the Residence card contain "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen"?

Did Garda ask any questions?

The Dutch Residence card says Dutch Residence Permit in a small print at the bottom. Apart of that the front also has a print saying Document Type : EU.

The backside of the card mentions the permit is for family of EU national however it is in Dutch. The Garda did not even look at the backside and surprisingly did not ask me any question.

You can see the permit here
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf
but feel it will not be a great trouble for yur friend to get in.

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:14 pm

newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now

Anybody?

acme4242 · Post by **acme4242** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:31 am

newbieholland wrote:
newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now
Anybody?

Irish Law SI 656 of 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0656.html
download
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

SI 656 of 2006 wrote: (4) An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.

Muttsnuts · Post by **Muttsnuts** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:01 pm

acme4242 wrote:
newbieholland wrote:
newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now :)
Anybody?
Irish Law SI 656 of 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0656.html
download
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

SI 656 of 2006 wrote: (4) An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.

Unfortunately that is the Irish Regulation which defines "residence card" as an EU FAM GNIB Card issued by the Irish authorities ONLY. So as it stands, non EU nationals passports are getting stamped on entry even if they have a residence card from another State.

This policy is in breach of EU Directive 2004/38. The relevant legislation you should be presenting is Article 5 (3) of Directive 2004/38. However, this will not wash with GNIB Officers on entry who tend to be ars*holes as a general rule.

The only way to rectify this would be a complaint via judicial review in the High Court. It's a very minor matter though that doesn't put anyone out really so that there is unlikely to be anyone in a position to challenge this practise, despite it clearly being in breach of Directive 2004/38

acme4242 · Post by **acme4242** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:19 am

Muttsnuts wrote:
acme4242 wrote:
newbieholland wrote:
newbieholland wrote:I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now
Anybody?
Irish Law SI 656 of 2006
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0656.html
download
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/SI656of2 ... of2006.pdf

SI 656 of 2006 wrote: (4) An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.
Unfortunately that is the Irish Regulation which defines "residence card" as an EU FAM GNIB Card issued by the Irish authorities ONLY. So as it stands, non EU nationals passports are getting stamped on entry even if they have a residence card from another State.

This policy is in breach of EU Directive 2004/38. The relevant legislation you should be presenting is Article 5 (3) of Directive 2004/38. However, this will not wash with GNIB Officers on entry who tend to be ars*holes as a general rule.

The only way to rectify this would be a complaint via judicial review in the High Court. It's a very minor matter though that doesn't put anyone out really so that there is unlikely to be anyone in a position to challenge this practise, despite it clearly being in breach of Directive 2004/38

yes, your right, Ireland are breaking the law on this also.
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... nce_en.pdf

2004/38/EC Art. 5.3

Incorrect transposition

Note that the residence card referred to in
regulation 4(4) is only a residence card issued
by the Irish authorities (given the definition in
regulation 2). As Article 5(3) of the Directive
means that this prohibition also applies in
respect of residence cards issued by other
Member States, it has not been properly
transposed.

Note that no reference to exit stamps, but this is
in practice unlikely as Ireland does not operate
exit controls and probably already covered by
transposition of Art 4.1

krombacher · Post by **krombacher** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Hi, i have a German family residence card "aufenthaltskarte für familienangehörige eines unionsbürgers" for 5 years. I am a visa require national to enter the Republic of Ireland. Can i got to Dublin without my wife for a weekend and just with the family residence card and my passport?
thanks

ps: i have a married certificate too.

Muttsnuts · Post by **Muttsnuts** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:28 pm

krombacher wrote:Hi, i have a German family residence card "aufenthaltskarte für familienangehörige eines unionsbürgers" for 5 years. I am a visa require national to enter the Republic of Ireland. Can i got to Dublin without my wife for a weekend and just with the family residence card and my passport?
thanks

ps: i have a married certificate too.

The Visas order that came in in APril 2011 suggests that you do not have to travel with your EU national spouse (or be joining them in Ireland). I would have thought that you do have to be travelling with them or joining them but it would seem that according to the wording, you do not have to.

However, I would make sure to check with your nearest Irish EMbassy on this point just to be on the safe side....

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:52 pm

I hope IRE will soon stop stamping the passport of non EU spouse of EU citizen with a residence card from another member state. Hope the UKBA be more human too.What they are doing is definitely against the EU law.

IQU · Post by **IQU** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:57 pm

irish immigration stop stamp the non eu passport member of eu.i think some body have to make complaint in eu court .

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:17 am

I just happened to enter IRE from outside the EU. They stamped my passport again,and I am not happy about this at all. Are they allowed to put the stamp if you have a GNIB stamp 4? Or does it have to be an RC from another member state for getting in without the entry stamp?

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:29 am

newbieholland wrote:I just happened to enter IRE from outside the EU. They still stamping the passport.

Are they allowed to put the stamp if you have a GNIB stamp 4?

Yup, but not if you have Stamp 4 EUFam. That's against Irish law. Specifically, Regulation 4(4) of the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006:

An immigration officer shall not, at the point of entry, place a stamp in the passport of a qualifying family member who presents to the officer a valid residence card.

This section of the law is usually ignored by GNIB officers though. If it came to it, the loophole they'd likely use for justification is that it isn't possible, based on presentation of passport and Stamp 4 EUFam card only, to determine whether the holder is a "qualifying family member" or a "permitted family member", as defined in the Regulations.

newbieholland · Post by **newbieholland** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:03 pm

Ben wrote:
This section of the law is usually ignored by GNIB officers though. If it came to it, the loophole they'd likely use for justification is that it isn't possible, based on presentation of passport and Stamp 4 EUFam card only, to determine whether the holder is a "qualifying family member" or a "permitted family member", as defined in the Regulations.

What is the difference between the both? If you have a EU4Fam which is valid for 6 months then are you a Qualifying family member rather than being permitted family member? Again this will be a descrimination against the family of EU nationals who are still waiting on the GNIB card with 5 year validation and are provided with the temporary one only. INIS does not have any provision where they offer the 5 years residecne card to anyone bofore the 6 months time from their application.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:11 am

newbieholland wrote:What is the difference between the both?

In the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006, Directive 2004/38/EC's Article 2 (family member) is transposed as "qualifying family member" and Article 3 (beneficiary) is transposed as "permitted family member".

krombacher · Post by **krombacher** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:38 pm

Hi guys I have a German Family resident card for five years as my wife is German, I was wondering if I could travel alone to Ireland and they told me that i need a visa to travel alone if my wife is Not Traveling with me, even know I have a Family Resident Card of a Union Citizen. So i applied and they issued a visa type "C" Spouse of a EU Citizen B/O. so i guess if you travel with your wife then you dont need a visa but if you travel alone you need one, which its a pain becuse you dont know if you are going to get it or not.

I also got a refusal for from UKBA and i appealed the visa refusal and the hearing was las friday,so i'm waiting for the letter to see what was the decision on my british dilema/nightmere.

jerzy · Post by **jerzy** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:11 pm

krombacher wrote:Hi guys I have a German Family resident card for five years as my wife is German, I was wondering if I could travel alone to Ireland and they told me that i need a visa to travel alone if my wife is Not Traveling with me, even know I have a Family Resident Card of a Union Citizen.

Look at http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0146.html

It is hereby declared that the following classes of non-nationals are specified as classes the members of which are not required to be in possession of a valid Irish visa when landing in the State:
[...]
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen”, as referred to in Article 10 of the Directive of 2004.

According to this I would say that you do not require a visa but... only if you have a residence card issued based on the Directive. If you live in Germany, your wife is German and she never live in another EU State, I guess your residence card was issued based on local (German) law - not the Directive.

But if it is the card mentioned in Directive just be aware that immigration officers are not familiar even the Irish law so it's better to have a copy of S.I. No. 146/2011 - Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 with you. If you can quote this Order while contacting the embassy I'm curious what the answer would be.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

No irish visa required if you have any Residence Card

Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

Re: Travelling to Ireland withoug a visa

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EEA-family member.

Re: EEA-family member.