No irish visa required if you have any Residence Card

Muttsnuts wrote:Either way, the rules have changed and Directive 2004/38 is now properly being implemented and that's to be applauded i suppose.

Do you think that Ireland now implements all of the Directive properly?

is itw orking in practice or just the bill has been passed .

sierra wrote:is itw orking in practice or just the bill has been passed .

The order says: "(2) This Order comes into operation on 25 April 2011" so it should have been in practice for 1 month now.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

Muttsnuts wrote:Either way, the rules have changed and Directive 2004/38 is now properly being implemented and that's to be applauded i suppose.

Do you think that Ireland now implements all of the Directive properly?

Not necessarily. I presume that most of it is being properly implemented but I don't know enough to say if the whole thing is being implemented properly. I'm sure that there are issues with its' implementation still. Maybe I should have said that in relation to the Metock issue, Directive 2004/38 is being implemented properly.

I think there is always a room for improvement. The directive states that a migrant worker who involuntary ceased work and engaged in any vocational training, should retain their status as a worker, it also states that a person who voluntarily ceased working, and engaged in an vocational activity relating to their previous work, should retain their status of worker as well, provided the nature of the vocational training is related to their previous employment.

The Minister transposed the opposite of what is required.

[quote]6. (1) Subject to Regulation 20, a person to whom these Regulations apply may reside in the State for
up to 3 months on condition that he or she -
(a) (i) where the person is a Union citizen, holds a valid national identity card or passport,
(ii) where the person is not a Union citizen, holds a valid passport, and
(b) does not become an unreasonable burden on the social welfare system of the State.
(2) (a) Subject to Regulation 20, a Union citizen may reside in the State for a period longer than 3
months if he or she -
(i) is in employment or is self-employed in the State,
(ii) has sufficient resources to support himself or herself, his or her spouse and any
accompanying dependants, and has comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of
himself or herself, his or her spouse and any accompanying dependants,
(iii) is enrolled in an educational establishment in the State for the principal purpose of
following a course of study there, including a vocational training course, and has
comprehensive sickness insurance in respect of himself or herself, his or her
spouse and any accompanying dependants, or
(iv) subject to paragraph (3), is a family member accompanying or joining a Union citizen
who satisfies one or more of the conditions referred to in clause (i), (ii) or (iii).
(b) Subject to paragraph (3), a family member of a Union citizen who is not a national of a
Member State shall be entitled to reside in the State for more than 3 months where the
Minister is satisfied that the Union citizen concerned satisfies one or more of the conditions
referred to in subparagraph (a)(i), (ii) or (iii).
(c) Subject to Regulation 20, a person to whom subparagraph (a)(i) applies may remain in the
State on cessation of the activity referred to in that subparagraph if -
(i) he or she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident,
6
(ii) he or she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed
for more than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with a relevant office of
the Department of Social and Family Affairs and FÃ

I am a non EU spouse of an EU (not Irish) national currently in NL and waiting for my residence card.I am planning a short trip to Ireland and want to know if I can travel to Ireland with my spouse without a visa. Does the sticker on my passport acknowledging my application, which is not in English of course, is enough to take a flight to Ireland from Holland?

Thnks

sorry deleted, wrong section!

Has anyone used this to travel to Ireland recently from UK with RC issued by UK? Also, does Rynair creates any issues with this?

Appreciate your comments.

Regards

ChIrl wrote:Has anyone used this to travel to Ireland recently from UK with RC issued by UK? Also, does Rynair creates any issues with this?

Appreciate your comments.

Regards

The Irish Embassy Visa Office in London told me that my wife might have problems. Here's my post about why:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 218#514218

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

ChIrl wrote:Can a non-national with UK visa visit Ireland ? I know recently Ireland allowed this for Visiting visa holders from July, but does it applicable for Job visa holders as well?

That would be nothing to do with this change. No idea!

ChIrl wrote:Also, can Irish citizen spouse with UK Residence visa visit based on this directive.

Yes, if they are "holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

that's really strange. that's why I want to check whether anyone travelled recently on this.

doesnotcompute wrote:

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

ChIrl wrote:Can a non-national with UK visa visit Ireland ? I know recently Ireland allowed this for Visiting visa holders from July, but does it applicable for Job visa holders as well?

That would be nothing to do with this change. No idea!

ChIrl wrote:Also, can Irish citizen spouse with UK Residence visa visit based on this directive.

Yes, if they are "holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

You should always travel with your marriage certificate. And you can then, if ever needed, do a no-visa entry to Ireland. I have done it before and it went fine.

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

I don't buy the excuse given by the Irish embassy. The citizens of the EEA state have free movement rights too, so saying because the UK extended the scope to them and called their card residence card for family member of EEA NATIONAL,as opposed to union citizen, the residence card is not valid for free visa travel, is just rubbish.

The Irish regulations consider EEA NATIONAL as union citizens too, and issue 4EUfam to their family members in the same way as they do for Union citizens.

Other memberstate could say the same for 4eufam, that it does not explicitly say, Residence Card for Family members of Union Citizens.

I will go with it. In any case, they cannot refuse you at the border if you are with you EU family member.

Thanks very much for your advise. I called Irish embassy and told about the same. They Visa Office will give me a ring tomorrow morning. Let's see what he will say.

On other note, what stamp they will put in the passport?

Regards

Obie wrote:I don't buy the excuse given by the Irish embassy. The citizens of the EEA state have free movement rights too, so saying because the UK extended the scope to them and called their card residence card for family member of EEA NATIONAL,as opposed to union citizen, the residence card is not valid for free visa travel, is just rubbish.

The Irish regulations consider EEA NATIONAL as union citizens too, and issue 4EUfam to their family members in the same way as they do for Union citizens.

Other memberstate could say the same for 4eufam, that it does not explicitly say, Residence Card for Family members of Union Citizens.

I will go with it. In any case, they cannot refuse you at the border if you are with you EU family member.

ChIrl wrote:On other note, what stamp they will put in the passport?

In theory they should not stamp your passport if you have a Residence Card. You should ask them not to stamp it, and refer to the SI which prohibits stamping passports when then holder has a Residence Card.

But...

The way that Ireland has allowed Residence Card holders to enter the country means they still legally make a distinction between RCs that Ireland has issued and RCs that other member states have issued. So technically speaking, in the way Irish law is presently written, the prohibition is on stamping passports of people with Irish issued Residence Cards.


Also a thought on naming of RCs in different countries. The Irish law describes the Residence Card wording in English. We have seen how it is different in the UK. What are the words on the RC in Germany? I suspect it is not what is in the Irish regulation.

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

ChIrl wrote:On other note, what stamp they will put in the passport?

In theory they should not stamp your passport if you have a Residence Card. You should ask them not to stamp it, and refer to the SI which prohibits stamping passports when then holder has a Residence Card.

But...

The way that Ireland has allowed Residence Card holders to enter the country means they still legally make a distinction between RCs that Ireland has issued and RCs that other member states have issued. So technically speaking, in the way Irish law is presently written, the prohibition is on stamping passports of people with Irish issued Residence Cards.


Also a thought on naming of RCs in different countries. The Irish law describes the Residence Card wording in English. We have seen how it is different in the UK. What are the words on the RC in Germany? I suspect it is not what is in the Irish regulation.

I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

The Residence Card holders passport should not be stamped if entering visa free either.

Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

Irish embassy london says that immigration offcials migh object as UK Residence Card says "Residence Card of a Family member of an EEA National" while Irish statutory talks about "Residence card of an Union member"

He said Union and EEA National are different. LOL

Muttsnuts wrote:

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

Muttsnuts wrote:I believe that the Irish Legislation allows for visa free travel for holders of a residence card issued under Article 10 so that the wording of the card should not matter as there will inevitably be wording differences on the cards. As long as it is issued under Article 10 of the 2004/38 Directive.

S.I. No. 146/2011 — Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 says:

(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called “Residence card of a family member of a Union citizenâ€

So I want to get something absolutely straight in my mind..

I'm an Irish citizen and my partner is a Turkish national.. He has said residency card in his passport as a family member of an EEA national. Despite the fact that I'm Irish, he is able to enter the republic with me? I ask that because I thought that the one place where we can't travel to is Ireland (since I'm an Irish citizen exercising my EU rights in a third country, i.e. the UK).. We're planning on getting a train from Belfast to Dublin next month, so if a check is carried out (happens now and again), I'm planning to print this order and highlight the relevant text!

Im an Irish citzen and my husband has an UK Residence card: family member of an EEA national. We are thinking of going to Ireland next weekend. Do you think he will be refused entry?

I read ChIrl post about the response the Irish embassy in London gave.. Surley they cant refuse him because his card says eea national and not union citzen. Any advice on what we could say should we have any problems?

repeat post.. can you please delete this admin

I have found two cases which indicates that Irish Courts have ruled that a residence card issued by one member state can exempt its holder from the visa requirements when the move to another member state , a very long time ago.

This can be used in UK courts against UKBA, and force a tribunal or High court judge to make reference to ECJ if they don't accept it.

Zada -v- MJELR & Anor

Raducan & Anor -v- MJELR & Ors

I did manage to enter Ireland with my Residence permit from Holland. I was travelling alone and took less than a minute for the GNIB officer to decide to let me in and put a stamp on my passport. I did argue to stop him from putting the stamp however he threatened to deport me if I refuse.

Since I was travelling alone I dint bother to pursue it any more and walked out of Immigration control with a stamp saying no right`s to work and a limited leave to remail in ireland.
I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now

Good to hear that. My friend is planning to travel to IRL based on the residence card issued in UK.

What type of Residence card Holland issues? Does the Residence card contain "Residence card of a family member of a Union Citizen"?

Did Garda ask any questions?

newbieholland wrote:I did manage to enter Ireland with my Residence permit from Holland. I was travelling alone and took less than a minute for the GNIB officer to decide to let me in and put a stamp on my passport. I did argue to stop him from putting the stamp however he threatened to deport me if I refuse.

Since I was travelling alone I dint bother to pursue it any more and walked out of Immigration control with a stamp saying no right`s to work and a limited leave to remail in ireland.
I want to find a link which says they should not stamp my passport for my next visit now