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non eu spouse visa could be applied from any where or no?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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sierra
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:30 am
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non eu spouse visa could be applied from any where or no?

Post by sierra » Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:43 pm

jsut a quick question regarding ireland non eu spous visa
i am british citizen and my husband pakistani national we are living in pakistan for about 2 years approx or more .
we are going to apply soon to accompany non eu spouse visa .under directive 2004/38/ec
question but karachi consulate from call experiance and other memebrs who applied is taking too long and they dont know about the directives canwe apply visa from ankara turkey the reason andy josh a forum member got visa with in 5 days .
or we have to apply from my husbands country of origin which is pakistan thanks in advance and if can apply from turkey under what conditions thanks in advance.
Last edited by sierra on Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andyjohnst
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Post by andyjohnst » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:37 pm

I think you have to apply from your country where you are.

If you could take a holiday to Turkey, I think you may be able to apply if you are actually in that country.

Ankara issued the visa the day they received the application. It only took 5 days for me because we had to send our application from Azerbaijan to the nearest embassy, which was Ankara, Turkey.

You can travel without a visa to Ireland and you will not be refused entry if you can prove that you are here with the EU spouse. This is perfectly legal and is laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. The tricky part is getting on the plane as most airlines check for visa's before hand. If you do do this be prepared. Take the directive with you. It is possible and I know people have done it. Like I said, the hardest part is the airline staff who will not have a clue about the directive and I know they immigration people at Dublin airport do struggle to understand it.

sierra
- thin ice -
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:30 am
Location: eu

Post by sierra » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:55 pm

thanks again andy but i think to apply visa from turkey either we need to be resident in turkey or should be resident in any other country which turkey represents .
i think staff in turkey embassy well qualified and they know about directives
in pakistan the karachi conulate staff hardly knows about the directives and usually they ask ordinary visa req but ith out fee visa ill be issued i was told like bank statement and employment details of non eu spouse needed etc.
and process is realy slow up untill now i did not hear any positive feed back about them in this category;
and travel without visa is going to be almost impossible as air lines would not let us aboard.
i read about that as well .

adlexy
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:23 am

Post by adlexy » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:38 pm

sierra wrote:thanks again andy but i think to apply visa from turkey either we need to be resident in turkey or should be resident in any other country which turkey represents .
i think staff in turkey embassy well qualified and they know about directives
in pakistan the karachi conulate staff hardly knows about the directives and usually they ask ordinary visa req but ith out fee visa ill be issued i was told like bank statement and employment details of non eu spouse needed etc.
and process is realy slow up untill now i did not hear any positive feed back about them in this category;
and travel without visa is going to be almost impossible as air lines would not let us aboard.
i read about that as well .
Alternatively, if it is easier for you to get a visit visa in Karachi, why don't you do that? When you arrive Ireland you can then go ahead to process your Spouse's application under the Directive inside Ireland rather than running from Karachi to Instanbul and then maybe elsewhere?

keloid
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Post by keloid » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:49 am

adlexy wrote:
sierra wrote:thanks again andy but i think to apply visa from turkey either we need to be resident in turkey or should be resident in any other country which turkey represents .
i think staff in turkey embassy well qualified and they know about directives
in pakistan the karachi conulate staff hardly knows about the directives and usually they ask ordinary visa req but ith out fee visa ill be issued i was told like bank statement and employment details of non eu spouse needed etc.
and process is realy slow up untill now i did not hear any positive feed back about them in this category;
and travel without visa is going to be almost impossible as air lines would not let us aboard.
i read about that as well .
Alternatively, if it is easier for you to get a visit visa in Karachi, why don't you do that? When you arrive Ireland you can then go ahead to process your Spouse's application under the Directive inside Ireland rather than running from Karachi to Instanbul and then maybe elsewhere?
i may be wrong but i dont think he can do this because wife at the time wouldn't be a 'resident' in ireland...she would just be a tourist.

nad2107
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Post by nad2107 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:19 pm

hi

i looked into this as well and was informed that u need to apply in country of residence of the person who is needing the visa.

also the other route of just arriving without a visa if ur eu spouse is accompanying u i wouldnt try it. i have heard of 3 people that have done that they got send back from dublin airport and have now been refused entry for life. their finger prints etc were taken and they were deported back.

so the spouse they were coming with now have to leave their jobs, homes etec and go live with them back in pakistan unless they apply to some other country now.

there might be the odd occassion someone has allowed through, but generally pakistanis have a very bad immigration record so dont risk it.

andyjohnst
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Post by andyjohnst » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:58 pm

To confirm - If you are Irish, you cannot bring your NON-EU spouse to ireland without a visa using the EU Directive/2004/38/EC.

This is only applicable to other member states of the EU but not your own "home" country.

For example. British (UK) national wishing to visit Ireland with NON-EU spouse. IF they manage to board the plane from wherever in the world to Ireland, the immigration officers cannot deny you entry and must give you time to prove your family ties to each other (i.e. prodcusing your marriage certificate, translated into the country of origins language). The NON-EU spouse will then be granted a visa upon entry. There are only 3 exceptional circumstances where they can deny entry, which are pretty sever ones.

The only difficult part is getting the Airline staff to understand the EU directive.

If they do not let you into the country they are breaching EU law and a life ban is totally out of the question!

Nad - If I was you, and you know these people who have then Ban, I would suggest tey contact Solvit about the situation.

nad2107
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Post by nad2107 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:04 pm

andyjohnst wrote:To confirm - If you are Irish, you cannot bring your NON-EU spouse to ireland without a visa using the EU Directive/2004/38/EC.

This is only applicable to other member states of the EU but not your own "home" country.

For example. British (UK) national wishing to visit Ireland with NON-EU spouse. IF they manage to board the plane from wherever in the world to Ireland, the immigration officers cannot deny you entry and must give you time to prove your family ties to each other (i.e. prodcusing your marriage certificate, translated into the country of origins language). The NON-EU spouse will then be granted a visa upon entry. There are only 3 exceptional circumstances where they can deny entry, which are pretty sever ones.

hey andy i dont know these guys personally just through friends. however i have mentioned they contact solvit so lets see what feedback they get

The only difficult part is getting the Airline staff to understand the EU directive.

If they do not let you into the country they are breaching EU law and a life ban is totally out of the question!

Nad - If I was you, and you know these people who have then Ban, I would suggest tey contact Solvit about the situation.

Muttsnuts
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Post by Muttsnuts » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:28 pm

A non-EU spouse needs a visa to enter the State where the spouse has no Residence Card.

There are three options here as I see it.

i) Have the spouse apply for a visit visa and then once both are in Ireland, apply for EU Treaty Rights or
ii) to have the UK CItizen husband move to Ireland and have the wife apply for a "Join Spouse" visa.
iii) have the spouse apply for an "Accompany Spouse" visa and both move together.

The best option to go for is ii) as the husband has exercised his EU Treaty rights so that the visa should be free and should have the accelarated procedure applied. I believe that option iii) should also be the same situation but it does not appear to me in my experience that the accelarated procedure is applied in such a case.

Either way, when dealing with Embassies and applcations for visas, they can all be ponderously slow and kicking up a fuss is required to get anything done in any reasonable time. I would suggest to anticipate a 2 or even 3 month delay when applying for a visa from an Irish Embassy as most of them are disastrous other than the Embassies in Europe or the USA.

andyjohnst
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Post by andyjohnst » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:57 pm

A NON-EU spouse (Direct family member) or an EU Citizen can travel without a visa.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/
Directive 2004/38/EC has the following to say:

Directive 2004/38/EC
Chapter II — Right of exit and entry
Article 5 — Right of entry


4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.

Each member state has had to transpose Directive 2004/38/EC into their own legislation and must include Article 5 in the transposition.

The European Union comments about this in their document TABLE OF CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC AND CURRENT EC LEGISLATION ON FREE MOVEMENT AND RESIDENCE OF UNION CITIZENS WITHIN THE EU (quote starts page 6):

Article 5(4) [of Directive 2004/38/EC] works as a safeguard for persons entitled to free movement when they are unable to show the required documents when crossing a border. This provision is based on the judgment of the [ECJ] in case C-459/99 [ruling of 25 July 2002 in MRAX v Belgian State] according to which on a proper construction of Article 3 of Directives 68/360 and 73/148 and Regulation 2317/95, read in conjunction with the principle of proportionality, a Member State may not send back at the border a third country national who is married to a national of a Member State and attempts to enter its territory without being in possession of a valid identity card or passport or, if necessary, a visa, where he is able to prove his identity and the conjugal ties.
My wife received her Accompany EU Spouse visit visa from Irish embassy in Ankara, Turkey in 5 working days (including postage to and from Baku, Azerbaijan to Ankara Turkey).

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