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Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Mrnew
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Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mrnew » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:30 am

Hi all ,
A week ago my eu5 review was refused which is very disappointed so my question is that what is the next option if i go to appeal in court it could take years
Does anyone have same experiance in near past please give your kind suggestion will appreciate it
Thanks
Regards

usmanch313
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by usmanch313 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:35 am

Sorry to hear.
Could you explain please what was reason for Refuse ?
Did you apply base on Divorce ?

Mrnew
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mrnew » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:26 am

Thanks alot
Yes my initial application was base on seperation which was refused coz of no divorce been granted that time then i send a review application and send them the divorce certificate after 2 months the review application was pending for 1 year in meanwhile they ask me few clerificarion which i did explain to them
3 reasons for refusal ,
1) i was ask at dublin airport about the name of employer of my x wife which is an italian restaurant i couldent remember it and to be very honest i still cant pronounce so i answer the officer that its an italian restaurant i dont remember the name

2) when we separated i didn't inform the department

3) after seperation she hucked up with a boyfriend and she give birth to his daughter & we were still not divorce
This third point effect it the most

Now if i go to appeal it could take very long time so any short solution ?

And my naturalization application is still in process

usmanch313
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by usmanch313 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:54 pm

Your Ex is still in the state?
at the time of divorce did you wife working in state (Ireland)
How long you both live together ?
When you applied Retention base on separation how long you both together at the time when you applied?
Did u applied through out solister ?
How long you in the state total ?

Mrnew
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mrnew » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:06 pm

Thanks usmanch313 ,
Yes she is still in the state
Yes at the time of divorce she was in the state
Well our marriage was valid for almost 5 years but we live togather for 2 years
I apply for retention in august 2016 as i sat the marriage last for 5 years but we were togather for 2 years then we were trying to sort it out but couldn't and divorce done at the end of 2016
Yes i applied through solicitor
And iam in ireland since 2011

Mrnew
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mrnew » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:08 pm

Sorry i didnt reply about her work
She is still working im same place since 2010 fultime

finalversion_2k
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by finalversion_2k » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:38 am

how do department know about the child?? did you inform OR they found out??

Mal111
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mal111 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:02 am

Your post is not very clear explain following with dates

Date of marriage
Date of separation ( and what date INIS are aware of like according to them when you got separated)
When did she had a child with another partner
Date of divorce
What date they question you at airport and at that time did you inform them your separated?

Mrnew
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mrnew » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:31 pm

Thanks finalversion_2k
No actually i dont inform them they found it out
Actually i thoughy that they will not go in this much investigation & if i tell them myself it could make problems

max307
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by max307 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:08 pm

Mrnew wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:31 pm
Thanks finalversion_2k
No actually i dont inform them they found it out
Actually i thoughy that they will not go in this much investigation & if i tell them myself it could make problems
Big mistake! You always need to be upfront to INIS about any changes in your circumstances in the state.
In this case, if you had told him, it would have helped you
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Mrnew
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Re: Eu5 review refused what to do now

Post by Mrnew » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:09 pm

Thanks Mal111

Date of marraige october 2011

Date of seperation december 2013 thats what inis considered but i have explain thats we were not living togather but we were trying to catchup .

The child part is a nightmare actully after 1 year of our marraige we start fighting like children literally everyday
So in that hard time my wife start seeing her job colleague which i know after few months when i find out that she was pregnant so we had a big fight for over a week but due to our common friends involvement & she was pretending that she is very ashamed so i accept her apology & accept someones else baby with a big heart so the baby was born in october 2013 but in next week i had to go backhome in emergency for few weeks when i came back i find out that she was seeing him again while i was away so i had enough and she left and move to thats guys house .

Divorce initiated in november 2016 finilised in november 2017

At the airport they ask me few questions but the one which they highlights as general lack of knowledge the officer ask me that where is your wife working i reply she work in an italian restaurant but i dont remember the name actually its a bit starnge name which i still cant pronounce

And the officer ask questions in such way that i couldent tell her that we are separated .

Sorry for such long reply but what are the option for me now ?
Thanks Regards

Mrnew
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Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by Mrnew » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:16 pm

Hi everyone,
My Question is thats my retention visa & the review application both are refused ,
Do anyone know someone whos retention & review was refused but got approve for naturalisation .

I shall be very thankful if someone share their experience or friends experience .
Many thanks

max307
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Re: Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by max307 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:35 am

Mrnew wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:16 pm
Hi everyone,
My Question is thats my retention visa & the review application both are refused ,
Do anyone know someone whos retention & review was refused but got approve for naturalisation .

I shall be very thankful if someone share their experience or friends experience .
Many thanks
I don’t want to be pessimistic but sounds highly unlikely that you’re are going to get Retention of Rights refused but naturalisation approved since a very big part of the application for naturalisation depends on your immigration history in the state.

I have not heard of anyone in your situation yet so I can’t really tell with certainty.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Mrnew
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Re: Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by Mrnew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:52 am

Thanks max307 ,
Well thanks alot for your honest reply actually i was abit optmistic coz od this paragraph in my refusal letter ,

"The decision to refused you a residence card for a family member of union citizen does not interfere with any rights which you may have under the constitution or article 8 of thr european convention on human rights .in nay subsequent proposed decision where such interference may arise. Please note that full and proper consideration will be given to these rights "

But iam agree with you as more people say that unless you dont gave a valid visa they wont process your application further .
What will be a good potion for me to go for a new application foe retention or appeal in court or going for human rights as iam in ireland since 2011.
Appreciate your help
Regards

max307
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Re: Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by max307 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:18 pm

Mrnew wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:52 am
Thanks max307 ,
Well thanks alot for your honest reply actually i was abit optmistic coz od this paragraph in my refusal letter ,

"The decision to refused you a residence card for a family member of union citizen does not interfere with any rights which you may have under the constitution or article 8 of thr european convention on human rights .in nay subsequent proposed decision where such interference may arise. Please note that full and proper consideration will be given to these rights "

But iam agree with you as more people say that unless you dont gave a valid visa they wont process your application further .
What will be a good potion for me to go for a new application foe retention or appeal in court or going for human rights as iam in ireland since 2011.
Appreciate your help
Regards
I'm actually not sure what you next step should be. Did they mention anything about what you are supposed to do now?

I don't know if Human Rights (HR) applies to your case - you were married and the relationship ended - that does not sound like a HR issue, rather a personal matter.

I think might be a good idea to get some legal help at this point. I wouldn't advise anyone to go for appeal in court without some legal counseling, after all INIS have government solicitors that can argue their case and win easily because you did breach their rules.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

finalversion_2k
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Re: Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by finalversion_2k » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:22 pm

@Mrnew: I'm going to apply for Retention next week so i can't say my self expert. Mal, Grace, Usman and others are definitely have more knowledge then me. I'm just doing kinda R&D OR eye on Retention and work permit topic from last 2 years, met 4 to 5 best solicitors. below are my 2 cents.

Clarification:
1. did you send them before, between and after divorce payslips or documents??
2. are you child guardian in record OR that baby is on her bf names??

Background:
Lets talk about Refusal: your EU5 application was refused because you wasn't able to send the Decree of divorce on time, which is fair and make sense.. then you submit Review/Appeal that was also refused, and Reasons was that you didn't inform department, airport wrong information etc etc, but Note here it looks like they accept that she was exercising her treaty rights in Ireland.

sounds strange but I believed your application was refused because of DatesTime. just think for minute As per law Mrrg should lasted 3 years and out of that 1year couple should be in state and EU person should exercising treaty rights. so looks like you tick that box already.

so as per my understanding, real reason of refusal was DateTime.. question How: I think your solicitor didn't notice Separation, baby birth, Divorce and Airport dates. and those dates elapsed. If Department found one single thing then they dig it completely. why they question you about wife, because they want to know that rights what you inherited from your partner are valid OR not, so they question: you answer wrong intentionally/Unintentionally but reality is that happened. second you also didn't inform department. so after that time you are in cold waters.

Suggestion:
I know below suggestion sounds lil crazy. but all i want to say is don't give up.. explore every available option what you have.

1. don't withdraw your Naturalization case (Reasons: 95% chances they will refuse but still 5% chances are, finger crossed. 2. solicitor will not refund you your application fee) so better to leave this as it is.

2. if you can afford apply for humanitarian application as well. I don't think Naturalization OR EU5 application stop you by doing this.

3. if your name is as parent for that child.. then Start exploring that option as well.

Mrnew
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Re: Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by Mrnew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:16 pm

Thanks a million finalversion_2k
For such a breaf reply really appreciate it .
Well good luck for your application and i hope mal ,grace or usman can help me in this matter ,

Now let me reply your questions,
1) yes i did send them payslips and p60s of my x wife before & after divorce
2) the baby is on her bf name & he is the guardian

Yes the application was refused coz of no divorce certificate
And the review which took 1 year is refused coz of these 3 points which i have explained earlier now as per the marriage rules is concerne i think thats not the case otherwise it could have been more easy for them to refuse me i think the child issue was the real issue for them to refuse me as i never mention it in my application or any correspondence letter which i send them my solicitor says that as you mention that your marriage was not over you brakeup but you were trying to catchup so the marriage last almost 5 years and we were living togather for 2 years .
And yep you are true that due to my own mistake espacially the one at airport and not informing the department about my seperation.

Today i discuss it with my solicitor he says that we can go to the judicial review but we cant go towards humanitarian grounds coz they havent issue a deportation letter and inis mention in the letter that your naturalisation application wont be effected we wont take any action agains it so solicitor say there is a hope that you got approve for naturalisation and then we can apply on that basese for temporary visa which will help in getting the certificate
So yes no intentions to do anything with my naturalisation application i will give it time and as you says fingers cross
And as i say that the child is his child so cant go in that path as well .

But i have another big problem which is that my father at back home is ill and i will need to go anytime soon to take care of him as iam the only son so i ask my solicitor that if i go lets say after a month or 2 in emergency to see my father and due to no visa i wont be able to come back to ireland what will i do so he says that if you got approval or get visa in JR
We can request them to give you an entry visa on that bases that you went in emergency and you have this approval letter so they will give you entry visa in your country which is kinda strange anyone knows someone who have got this kind of visa in past ?

Once again thanks alot for your intrest my God bless you
Regards

Mrnew
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Re: Retention & Review refused can be approve for naturalisation ???

Post by Mrnew » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:44 pm

@ max307 ,
Thanks ,
Well they say your case is now closed but as our record shows that you have a naturalisation application in process we will not be puting any move against you untill this application is not sorted out and they wont interfere with naturalisation appliction so my one hope is this application

I think its call section 3 or 5 so if you lived in ireland for a good amount of years and you loose your visa rights anyone with good character can apply through human rights.

And yea i will take some legal help iam in contact with my solicitor .

Thanks alot anyway

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