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Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

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Thehungrysoldier
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Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:48 pm

Hi all,

My husband is a visa-required national on a student visa (Stamp 2). We got married in October 2018 after a 5 year long distance relationship, and presented to GNIB in November for his Stamp 4, and the man said we had to write to the department and refused it. I emailed the SOIN department, who said we had to send in the application for Spouse of An Irish National due to long distance :x. That seems fine as I meet all the requirements as an employed Irish citizen.

My questions are:
1. When do we receive back our original documents the first time around? My brother is getting married in June abroad and we need to travel for this so will we get our passports back by then?
2. Does the temporary stamp 4 get issued along with the return of the original documents?
3. What documents would you recommend to be included that may not be on the list online?
4. How long does the overall application take? If it doesn’t come before September, is he still allowed to get a Stanp 1G to start working?

Thanks a lot in advance!

max307
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by max307 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:19 pm

Thehungrysoldier wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:48 pm
Hi all,

My husband is a visa-required national on a student visa (Stamp 2). We got married in October 2018 after a 5 year long distance relationship, and presented to GNIB in November for his Stamp 4, and the man said we had to write to the department and refused it. I emailed the SOIN department, who said we had to send in the application for Spouse of An Irish National due to long distance :x. That seems fine as I meet all the requirements as an employed Irish citizen.

My questions are:
1. When do we receive back our original documents the first time around? My brother is getting married in June abroad and we need to travel for this so will we get our passports back by then?
2. Does the temporary stamp 4 get issued along with the return of the original documents?
3. What documents would you recommend to be included that may not be on the list online?
4. How long does the overall application take? If it doesn’t come before September, is he still allowed to get a Stanp 1G to start working?

Thanks a lot in advance!
Before I answer your questions can you please clarify if your non-EU spouse was on a valid visa at the time of marriage and Stamp 4 application? Was any part of his stay in Ireland without a visa or permission?

I'm only asking because usually if the non-EU spouse was on a valid visa or permission other than short stay visas (C) the Stamp 4 is granted on the spot there and then, no need to send paper application to INIS.

See link below, section 1. How do I apply? scenario A.:

http://inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000024
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:11 pm

Yes - he was and still is on a stamp 2. The immigration officer said if we want to change his status he has to write in. I emailed the SOIN department and they said because of your reference to a “long distance relationship” then we need to send one in. I guess we just got unlucky.

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:20 pm

max307 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:19 pm
Thehungrysoldier wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:48 pm
Hi all,

My husband is a visa-required national on a student visa (Stamp 2). We got married in October 2018 after a 5 year long distance relationship, and presented to GNIB in November for his Stamp 4, and the man said we had to write to the department and refused it. I emailed the SOIN department, who said we had to send in the application for Spouse of An Irish National due to long distance :x. That seems fine as I meet all the requirements as an employed Irish citizen.

My questions are:
1. When do we receive back our original documents the first time around? My brother is getting married in June abroad and we need to travel for this so will we get our passports back by then?
2. Does the temporary stamp 4 get issued along with the return of the original documents?
3. What documents would you recommend to be included that may not be on the list online?
4. How long does the overall application take? If it doesn’t come before September, is he still allowed to get a Stanp 1G to start working?

Thanks a lot in advance!
Before I answer your questions can you please clarify if your non-EU spouse was on a valid visa at the time of marriage and Stamp 4 application? Was any part of his stay in Ireland without a visa or permission?

I'm only asking because usually if the non-EU spouse was on a valid visa or permission other than short stay visas (C) the Stamp 4 is granted on the spot there and then, no need to send paper application to INIS.

See link below, section 1. How do I apply? scenario A.:

http://inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000024
I even asked if it would be any different if we went back this year after time has passed of us living together, and they said since we were refused at GNIB, we would be refused again if we returned without the stamp 4 letter for SOIN. If you could answer any of the questions, or even provide an alternative, that would be great because there seems to be a lack of information about the SOIN application.

max307
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by max307 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:41 pm

That sounds very strange! The Stamp 4 should've been issued when you met the immigration officer, I guess you are right - you were the unlucky ones that day.

I would challenge their decision, if you go to their offices in Dublin and request to meet with a manager at counter 15 (sometimes counter 14) the issue might be resolved there and then, but anyway he doesn't have his passport now? They are violating your rights and the rights of your spouse, the "long distance relationship" thing is made up, that doesn't come into play once you are legally married. I never heard a case like this before!

Regarding your questions:

1. When do we receive back our original documents the first time around? My brother is getting married in June abroad and we need to travel for this so will we get our passports back by then?

Usually after a few weeks (8 weeks maybe) so you should be good for the trip in June.

2. Does the temporary stamp 4 get issued along with the return of the original documents?

Usually that's the case, he will be able to to enter employment and travel on that temporary Stamp 4. One more thing, because he's a visa required national I would strongly recommend to apply for a re-entry visa to Ireland once you receive the passport back and the temporary Stamp 4 is issued.

3. What documents would you recommend to be included that may not be on the list online?

Everything and anything - utility bills, pictures, flight tickets, hotel bookings, cinema tickets, WhatsApp conversations, etc.

4. How long does the overall application take? If it doesn’t come before September, is he still allowed to get a Stanp 1G to start working?

He will be able to work on the temporary Stamp 4 so no need to apply for anything else, if the application hasn't been completed by the time the temporary stamp expires INIS will renew it again.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:02 pm

max307 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:41 pm
That sounds very strange! The Stamp 4 should've been issued when you met the immigration officer, I guess you are right - you were the unlucky ones that day.

I would challenge their decision, if you go to their offices in Dublin and request to meet with a manager at counter 15 (sometimes counter 14) the issue might be resolved there and then, but anyway he doesn't have his passport now? They are violating your rights and the rights of your spouse, the "long distance relationship" thing is made up, that doesn't come into play once you are legally married. I never heard a case like this before!

Regarding your questions:

1. When do we receive back our original documents the first time around? My brother is getting married in June abroad and we need to travel for this so will we get our passports back by then?

Usually after a few weeks (8 weeks maybe) so you should be good for the trip in June.

2. Does the temporary stamp 4 get issued along with the return of the original documents?

Usually that's the case, he will be able to to enter employment and travel on that temporary Stamp 4. One more thing, because he's a visa required national I would strongly recommend to apply for a re-entry visa to Ireland once you receive the passport back and the temporary Stamp 4 is issued.

3. What documents would you recommend to be included that may not be on the list online?

Everything and anything - utility bills, pictures, flight tickets, hotel bookings, cinema tickets, WhatsApp conversations, etc.

4. How long does the overall application take? If it doesn’t come before September, is he still allowed to get a Stanp 1G to start working?

He will be able to work on the temporary Stamp 4 so no need to apply for anything else, if the application hasn't been completed by the time the temporary stamp expires INIS will renew it again.
Thanks so much for answering all my questions! He does have his passport, we are still waiting to send in the application as he is travelling soon and only returns at the end of this month. Yes, I also thought it was weird that they didn't want to give him the Stamp 4. When I asked for it, his immediate response was "No, you came in on a Stamp 2, if you want to change your visa status, you need to write in to the DOJ." And that was it, he wrote up some notes on his computer and sent us home, even though I told him it was written online that if he is legally in the country, he can change his Stamp then and there. He also interrogated us about our marriage and relationship, and then told us we "wasted an appointment" and that they are "impossible to get" and we shouldn't have gone in and should have written in first.

Do you think that walking in will help at all? I can try and find an appointment as well. I don't mind doing the full application, but it's so tedious and long that if we don't actually have to do it, I wouldn't want to.

Thanks again!!

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by max307 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:29 pm

Well either that immigration officer is hugely misinformed or he had a personal issue with you guys! It's written on their website that except short stay C visas if the non-EU national is legal in the country they have to issue the Stamp 4 on the spot.

I would go there again with the print out of the link I provided before and request to see a manager, make a formal complaint because this immigration officer wasted your appointment and your time.

Unless something internally changed recently and the website hasn't been updated he's obviously wrong at the very least!
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:44 pm

max307 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:29 pm
Well either that immigration officer is hugely misinformed or he had a personal issue with you guys! It's written on their website that except short stay C visas if the non-EU national is legal in the country they have to issue the Stamp 4 on the spot.

I would go there again with the print out of the link I provided before and request to see a manager, make a formal complaint because this immigration officer wasted your appointment and your time.

Unless something internally changed recently and the website hasn't been updated he's obviously wrong at the very least!
So strange - maybe we just met him in a bad mood!
Thanks very much for all your advice, I think we will head down there and see what they say, hopefully we won't have to go through the whole process! Have a lovely day :D

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by max307 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:11 pm

Thehungrysoldier wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:44 pm
max307 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:29 pm
Well either that immigration officer is hugely misinformed or he had a personal issue with you guys! It's written on their website that except short stay C visas if the non-EU national is legal in the country they have to issue the Stamp 4 on the spot.

I would go there again with the print out of the link I provided before and request to see a manager, make a formal complaint because this immigration officer wasted your appointment and your time.

Unless something internally changed recently and the website hasn't been updated he's obviously wrong at the very least!
So strange - maybe we just met him in a bad mood!
Thanks very much for all your advice, I think we will head down there and see what they say, hopefully we won't have to go through the whole process! Have a lovely day :D
Good Luck! :D
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Areeae94
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Areeae94 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:12 pm

Any updates? I'm in the same boat as well but I'm a non-visa required national here on a visa! If you did go - what counter did you go to, and did you talk to reception first? I'm going back tomorrow morning and I'm a bit nervous.

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:35 am

Areeae94 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:12 pm
Any updates? I'm in the same boat as well but I'm a non-visa required national here on a visa! If you did go - what counter did you go to, and did you talk to reception first? I'm going back tomorrow morning and I'm a bit nervous.
We are going to GNIB tonight - only thing is we don't have an appointment.

How did yours go - did you go to the reception or ask to speak to someone first? Was it successful?

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Areeae94 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:09 am

I'm here right now. Definitely don't come later! The query counter is only open from 10am until 1pm and no one will help you after that. They hand out tickets for the query counter at 9am and its counter 23.

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 am

Areeae94 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:09 am
I'm here right now. Definitely don't come later! The query counter is only open from 10am until 1pm and no one will help you after that. They hand out tickets for the query counter at 9am and its counter 23.

Okay cool, I can head in tomorrow morning. Let me know what they say about your predicament!
Thank you!

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:41 pm

Areeae94 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:09 am
I'm here right now. Definitely don't come later! The query counter is only open from 10am until 1pm and no one will help you after that. They hand out tickets for the query counter at 9am and its counter 23.
Hi! Any good news?

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Areeae94 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:43 pm

So - I got my residency updated to a stamp 4. I took a ticket from reception for the queries desk and waited approximately an hour and a half for my number to be called. Explained my situation, was escalated to a manager. They gave me an appointment on the spot, went back to the same cranky old lady who denied me the first time. She barely spoke to me, but took my info and told me to take a seat. Waited an hour and a half for my passport and documents to be returned, got my stamp, and was told my new IRP would be in the mail in 5-10 working days. Hope it goes well for you!

Thehungrysoldier
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:48 pm

Areeae94 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:43 pm
So - I got my residency updated to a stamp 4. I took a ticket from reception for the queries desk and waited approximately an hour and a half for my number to be called. Explained my situation, was escalated to a manager. They gave me an appointment on the spot, went back to the same cranky old lady who denied me the first time. She barely spoke to me, but took my info and told me to take a seat. Waited an hour and a half for my passport and documents to be returned, got my stamp, and was told my new IRP would be in the mail in 5-10 working days. Hope it goes well for you!
That's awesome - congrats, and I'm really glad it worked out so well for you. We're gonna head in around 9 tomorrow and hoping for the same. Just one last question, did you go to the front reception or did you go to the very first counter to get your queries ticket?

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by max307 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:48 pm

Areeae94 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:43 pm
So - I got my residency updated to a stamp 4. I took a ticket from reception for the queries desk and waited approximately an hour and a half for my number to be called. Explained my situation, was escalated to a manager. They gave me an appointment on the spot, went back to the same cranky old lady who denied me the first time. She barely spoke to me, but took my info and told me to take a seat. Waited an hour and a half for my passport and documents to be returned, got my stamp, and was told my new IRP would be in the mail in 5-10 working days. Hope it goes well for you!
Congrats @Areeae94! I'm glad you were able to get your Stamp 4 on the spot, it looks like we were right after all.

@Thehungrysoldier don't take a no for an asnwer! Make sure that you escalate the issue to a manager if the immigration officer is unhelpful or rude, after all you are only exercising your right.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

Areeae94
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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Areeae94 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Thehungrysoldier wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:48 pm
Areeae94 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:43 pm
So - I got my residency updated to a stamp 4. I took a ticket from reception for the queries desk and waited approximately an hour and a half for my number to be called. Explained my situation, was escalated to a manager. They gave me an appointment on the spot, went back to the same cranky old lady who denied me the first time. She barely spoke to me, but took my info and told me to take a seat. Waited an hour and a half for my passport and documents to be returned, got my stamp, and was told my new IRP would be in the mail in 5-10 working days. Hope it goes well for you!
That's awesome - congrats, and I'm really glad it worked out so well for you. We're gonna head in around 9 tomorrow and hoping for the same. Just one last question, did you go to the front reception or did you go to the very first counter to get your queries ticket?
Stopat reception first and ask them for a ticket for the queries desk :) The query desk is counter 23. Good luck! Keep us updated

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by Thehungrysoldier » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:59 am

Hi guys, just to update, we went to GNIB this morning. Met the guy at query counter, who said that the person had written some notes who had originally rejected us, and said that since my husband came in on a stamp 2, and then we got married, it looks like he intentionally deceived the immigration process and used the stamp 2 to get married instead of applying for defacto relationship or some other visa. Therefore, they said they can't give us the stamp 4 there, and we will have to apply through SOIN unit. I still don't understand it, but I guess we will have to take the long route.

They also said that we might not have to send original documents in and just send in copies of passport, marriage cert etc, but I don't know how true that is? Hopefully the process isn't too long.

Thanks for all your help anyway guys!

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Re: Spouse of Irish National Stamp 4 Application - Help!

Post by max307 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:38 pm

Thehungrysoldier wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:59 am
Hi guys, just to update, we went to GNIB this morning. Met the guy at query counter, who said that the person had written some notes who had originally rejected us, and said that since my husband came in on a stamp 2, and then we got married, it looks like he intentionally deceived the immigration process and used the stamp 2 to get married instead of applying for defacto relationship or some other visa. Therefore, they said they can't give us the stamp 4 there, and we will have to apply through SOIN unit. I still don't understand it, but I guess we will have to take the long route.

They also said that we might not have to send original documents in and just send in copies of passport, marriage cert etc, but I don't know how true that is? Hopefully the process isn't too long.

Thanks for all your help anyway guys!
He questioned your marriage to your face, that's some cheek! :shock:

It looks like you will need to go through the long route, the good thing is that after the application is initially reviewed (~8 weeks) your husband will be able to work and travel on a temporary Stamp 4. Obviously they have an issue with your marriage and your husband immigration history so I would strongly recommend not to travel until the temporary Stamp 4 is issued.
I am not a lawyer or immigration counselor, all views expressed are my own, my comments do not constitute legal advice.

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