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Strategy to solve E.U 1 Issue?

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

astartes
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Post by astartes » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:05 pm

Citizens of all nations living in Ireland need to do the following:

1. Contact their nation's Embassy in Ireland and provide a factual report of how they and their families have been mistreated.

2. Contact their Foreign Ministry and provide a similar report (in the case of the US, contact the Department of State).

3. Contact their national press and raise attention to the issue.

4. If they are EU citizens, contact their nation's EU commissioner.

5. If they are EU citizens, report the issue through SOLVIT

6. If the are EU citizens, report the case to all EU institutions concerned with EU mobility rights, and contact the EU press.

7. If they are EU citizens, raise the issue on all websites provided by the EU for discussion of such matters.

8. Inform all their contacts about the problem, and about any other mistreatment to which they have been subjected. Use your professional and alumni networks to spread awareness of this and other issues. Give special attention to your contacts within government, large business, the media and academia. Also prioritize contacts within international institutions such as the UN, World Bank and IMF.

Both spouses need to act on this issue with their corresponding governments. Please do keep all correspondence and use dated and certified mail. Keep all emails as well. Attach copies of these to your reports.

Ireland is a very small country, which is completely dependent on the generosity of others for its survival. Its continued attempts to play "smart guy" with the EU and the US are likely to lead to its utter economic and political annihilation. As you all know, there is very little substance behind the "Celtic tiger" and behind the propaganda image of that country. The Irish government is bluffing, they are counting on your apathy and fear. It is well-known to be one of the most corrupt and incompetent governments within the European Union.

Many EU governments are sick of the behavior of Ireland. Your complaints will not fall on deaf ears, and the accumulation of such reports provides powerful arguments to your governments. You and your nations do not need Ireland in the least, but Ireland has no chance to survive without your countries' benevolence and handouts.

You have much more power and influence than you realize, as well as a clear-cut case against the Irish government. Do not allow yourself to be mislead by certain propaganda agents of that government, who are being paid to post here in order to confuse, manipulate and discourage you.

They are all terrified that the truth of what they have been doing for the past 15 years will be exposed, now that so many EU insiders are determined to make Ireland pay for its attitude. I can assure you that the EU has not been fooled by Ireland.

scrudu
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:00 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Post by scrudu » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:08 am

astartes: What exactly is the point in resurrecting tonnes of old posts, merely to rant about the Irish Government and country. Why not simply start 1 NEW post, and shout all you want there. Instead of wasting peoples times by commenting on each and every old post with basically the same rhetoric, i.e. Ireland is crap and you are very unhappy here!

astartes
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Post by astartes » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:11 pm

That was the first time I was reading this site, and I felt that I had something to add to those threads. You seem to have something against that, and I would be curious to know what. Please do tell us what your problem is. Are you scared of something ?

I did not add the same message to old posts. That's just something that you made up, or perhaps you have an agenda of attacking all posters who don't compromise on EU legal principles.

Maybe you have a propaganda script saying that the Irish government somehow isn't violating EU law, isn't abusing EU citizens and their families, isn't lying about it and isn't corrupt. Or that Ireland isn't extracting EU funds under false pretenses. I would be glad to see your evidence.

By the way, I do not live in Ireland. And yes, many in the EU are disgusted with and exasperated with Ireland's behavior, and have a very realistic picture of Ireland's true level of development -- unlike so many Irish politicians who seem to be entirely cut off from the realities of their country, while lining their own pockets and imagining that "image" can substitute for reality.

Or perhaps you are one of those who imagine that Ireland can get away with abusing EU citizens, lying to the EU Commission and manipulating EU treaties. Uncomfortable that Europe isn't willing to tolerate that any longer ?

If so, just get out of the EU altogether. Should be rather easy once Lisbon is implemented by the other 26 members.
Really, the EU would be quite glad if Ireland just called it quits.

Christophe
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Post by Christophe » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:34 pm

astartes wrote:Maybe you have a propaganda script...
Actually, if you look through scrudu's posts you will see that this is very far from the truth. She has had her own struggles with the Irish immigration system and has actually given some very helpful to a lot of people in their struggles, based on her own experiences and the things she has learned.

astartes
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Post by astartes » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:57 pm

Then why defend what the Irish government is doing ?

Is she somehow in denial of what those people are about ?

The Irish "transposition" of the mobility directive is probably the most abusive lie perpetrated regarding EU mobility. What the Irish government does is blatantly illegal.

Interesting that the Irish EU center seems to work together with the Irish government in attempting to hide the problem from the EU. That is a case of maladministration.

Of course that's only one of the multiple ways in which Ireland lies and has been lying to the EU. I won't even mention the gross industrial corruption, mis-allocation of EU funds, the budget scandals, the disaster of higher education (funded by the EU) etc. Clearly they mistake the EU Commission for a bunch of idiots.

It's not clear what the Commission will do in the end, but obviously some extremely serious measures will be needed in the case of Ireland. After the games they played with Lisbon (so similar to those they played with Niece)-- both perpetrated in collusion with the Irish justice system, it is quite possible that they could be forced out of the Union.
Last edited by astartes on Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Christophe
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Post by Christophe » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:33 pm

astartes wrote:Then why defend what the Irish government is doing ?
I don't think she was defending the Irish government. She was merely talking about someone ranting... I really don't think you're being fair to her, in fact. But anyway, no matter: I don't want to start an argument particularly, I was just saying...

Ben
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Post by Ben » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:51 am

In fairness astartes, you did just recently register on this forum, then proceeded to post virtually that same rant on so many threads (not that I necessarily disagree with the content).

The majority of us here are suffering or have suffered the mistreatment of the DoJ, so we know what you're saying is true. But as scrudu said, why not just start one new thread and rant, rather than reply in a similar way to so many existing threads?

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:32 am

asartes: I wish you had actually read my comment before you started off another rant, filled with conspiracy theories about my agenda. If you simply checked up on my previous posts, you could very easily find out more information about my situation and why I post on these boards. Unfortunately for you, my "agenda" is much more mundane rather than the fantastical ideas you have thought up yourself! That said, they were quite humourous to read :)
asartes: ... or perhaps you have an agenda of attacking all posters who don't compromise on EU legal principles. Maybe you have a propaganda script saying that the Irish government somehow isn't violating EU law, isn't abusing EU citizens and their families, isn't lying about it and isn't corrupt. Or that Ireland isn't extracting EU funds under false pretenses. I would be glad to see your evidence.
With your last two posts, you have simply proven my point. Instead of actually adding anything of value to the current topic "Strategy to solve E.U 1 Issue?", you've launched off on an angry rant again. I am not opposed to anyone critising the DoJ/INIS, but I felt the number of posts (13 on Jul 13th) which mostly merely reiterated similar points against the Irish Government, Irish membership of the EU etc. were unnecessary. I still stand by my suggestion that if you wish to simply complain broadly about Ireland/Irish Gov/Irish membership of the EU/Irish Immigration policy, then simply start a new post and put all your energy into that one. I suggest a title of "Pissed off European suggests Ireland be forced out of EU for daring to vote no to Lisbon".

When you add to a post all those people who have subscribed to that post receive emails notifying them that the post has been updated, prompting those interested to read it. It was rather tedious to go to each post and find similar rhetoric on each.

Ben
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Post by Ben » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:47 am

scrudu wrote:... It was rather tedious to go to each post and find similar rhetoric on each.
I couldn't agree more.

That said, welcome to the forum, astartes. You've certainly made an introduction! Hope you stay. We're all singing the same tune, but calm down a bit, yeh? You can make friends with like-minded people here, but don't give yourself a hernia mate! :)

astartes
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Post by astartes » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:09 pm

Well what I can say to all of you is the following.

Trying to make excuses for what Ireland is doing to you only increases your chances to be further victimized. If you are an immigrant from a poor country, or if this is the first time you deal with immigration issues, you might have been conditioned to believe that if you just jump through enough hoops created by some government then you'll be OK.

That is not what you should be doing in this case. EU law states very clearly that the spouse of a EU citizen has an immediate right to reside and work in the EU country where her/his spouse choses to reside. Any "conditions" invented to deny that right are illegal.

As I said somewhere else, it is sad to see that so many people who are being victimized by the Irish DoJ seem to be ready and willing to put up with such victimization. If you have the mentality of a slave, then you should not be surprised when you are treated like one.

Nothing I said is a "rant", but correctly expresses the way in which Ireland's behavior is perceived by a large number of EU insiders. Some of you seem to have been greatly affected by the propaganda strategy of the Irish government, part of which consists in the creation of a deliberate wall of silence intended to hide the problems of that country.

I won't be posting further on this site, but I want to repeat my advice, to all EU citizens who care about their rights, that they proceed as I suggested above. Do this not only for yourself, but also in order to help the EU Commission establish the correct dignity of the status of EU citizen.

Do not play into the hands of those who want to violate your rights.

Regarding the status of Ireland, it is indeed quite possible that it will end up being marginalized in the EU or even forced out if continues playing games (that involves much more serious issues than its deliberately faulty transposition of EU directives). It is quite clear that many people here do not understand the seriousness of Ireland's current position.

For your information, I work for the EU. Also for your information, I happen to know who scrudu is. Nice try, anyway.
Last edited by astartes on Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ben
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Post by Ben » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:30 pm

astartes wrote:I won't be posting further on this site..
Right, ok. Well, err, thanks for dropping by. :?

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:47 pm

My dear Asartes ... I am so glad that you know who i am, because i don't have an idea who you are ... but please .. do enlighten me ... "Nice try" ... what exactly are you talking about? And who precicely do you think is "making exucses for Ireland"? Slightly paranoid schizophrenic tendencies there. You seem to be fighting arguments that weren't even made! What post are you referring to? Who exactly "made excuses for Ireland"?

And you "work for the EU" .... wooooooooo .... are we supposed to be impressed or something ... because as you say, "you are an insider in the EU". Give me a break! Who do you think you are fooling? But honestly though, thanks so much for "enlightening" us as to how "you insders in the EU" feel about Ireland and "it's status"! So glad to have had you around (albeit temporarily) to give us the unsolicited "insider" update :)

On a more serious note, where do you get off insulting other members of this forum by inferring that they are "victims who do not put up a fight". The people here are generally ALL here because they wish to put up a fight and are looking for more info. We have generally all had to face all kinds of hassle from the Immigration systems of various countries and on this forum, especially Ireland. How much do you actually know about how much the people on this forum are fighting for their rights in this country? And to put it in perspective, check out the Europe forum if only to see that it isn't all plain sailing when non-EU spouses venture into the rest of the EU. You aren't on this forum a wet week and you have the nerve to make such a generalised comment on people who post here?

Get off your high horse. Personally I am glad to hear you won't be posting again. I don't think you had much worth posting anyway. You never bothered to properly read any post that was written so your responses were quite off topic and inflamatory. As Jack Nicholson / Melvin Udhall once said "Go sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here!"

astartes
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Post by astartes » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:48 pm

Scrudu darling,

you should stop mistaking the European Commission and Council for idiots. Unless you want to see your names and tactics openly discussed in the press, and your funding dry up.

You are playing with fire.

I strongly suggest that you urgently start doing your jobs correctly. Assuming that you are capable of that.
The European Commission is responsible for ensuring that Community law is applied properly in the Member States. If necessary, the Commission reminds Member States of their responsibilities for implementing Community law and for enforcing it properly. In some cases, if a Member State fails to fulfill these obligations, the Commission may initiate proceedings before the European Court of Justice which decides whether or not European Community law has been infringed.
Last edited by astartes on Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

dsab85
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Post by dsab85 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:40 pm

astartes, please do us all a favour and shut up with your crap, and stop spamming the whole Irish board with your nonsense. Complete pain in the back you are... get a life, or at least try to get on with your current one.

And if you don't like it, then leave...but just stop putting up these silly messages. (and btw... no, I am not Irish but one of the previously affected EU citizens)
astartes wrote:Scrudu darling,

you should stop mistaking the European Commission and Council for idiots. Unless you want to see your names and tactics openly discussed in the press, and your funding dry up.

You are playing with fire.

I strongly suggest that you urgently start doing your jobs correctly. Assuming that you are capable of that.
The European Commission is responsible for ensuring that Community law is applied properly in the Member States. If necessary, the Commission reminds Member States of their responsibilities for implementing Community law and for enforcing it properly. In some cases, if a Member State fails to fulfill these obligations, the Commission may initiate proceedings before the European Court of Justice which decides whether or not European Community law has been infringed.

astartes
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Post by astartes » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:28 am

I don't live in Ireland and would never want to.

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:44 am

Asartes: mistake the EU Commission or Council for idiots
<sigh> I won't bother to respond to that. Did you bother to read my post before replying? You are really cracking me up with this "I know who you are" theme. Please, do "name and shame". I'm dying to know who you think I am :)
Your really seem to be loosing the plot. Perhaps a career in writing conspiracy theories would be more suitable for you, that is if the EU powers can spare you!

As you so obviously once again did not read dsab85's post either, dsab85 was not referring to you leaving Ireland, rather to leaving the Forum. I wholeheartedly agree. Give us all a break from your pointless rhetoric.

martind
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Post by martind » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:14 pm

Astartes does come across as someone who dislikes Ireland for some reason, and he/she does sound authoritarian and biased.

But I don't see anyone addressing his/her arguments or those of First-Class Moron and others. Personal attacks and attempts to ridicule critics can't substitute for evidence and logic.

It does seem that the ECJ believes that Ireland acted against EU legislation, and the arguments of the Irish government in the case are a shame. They sound exactly like what people used to say about Irish immigrants to the UK only a few decades ago. :(

It isn't believable that any victim of this situation would actively defend the behavior of the Irish Govt or launch obsessive personal attacks against its critics. It does look like some people here are more concerned with framing the debate and eliminating deeper criticism than with addressing immigration issues from a perspective sympathetic to the problems of immigrants.

Based on my life experience I would have to say that scrudu's behavior does seem inconsistent with the claims he/she makes about himself/herself.

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:50 pm

Martind: Were Astartes to write a logical argument, I would respond to it. So far in the 40 or so posts written by astartes, I haven't found one to be either sensible or useful, and found each lacking in any evidence or logic. I suggest you read up on all posts by astartes before joining his campaign.

Quite obviously the ECJ believes that Ireland did not act in the spirit of the Directive, and that is exactly what this court case as shown. And that's exactly what immigrants in this country have been fighting for since this came into force in 2005. That's the whole point isn't it?! What "arguments of the Irish government" are you referring to?

Who is "defending the behaviour of the Irish Govt"? I'm not sure what you mean by "framing the debate, and eliminating deeper criticism", but if you are referring to me, you're sadly mistaken. Another newbie poster who hasn't bothered to check up who they are commenting to. hmmmm sounds suspiciously like astartes to me!
martinb wrote:Based on my life experience I would have to say that scrudu's behavior does seem inconsistent with the claims he/she makes about himself/herself.
oh lord spare us ... so I joined the site in 2005 to make up a fictious story asking for help for my own situation, and have carried on the charade so that in 2008 I can "quash the wonderful debate that is going on on this website"? Again, sounds suspiciously like an astartes post!

martind
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Post by martind » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:56 pm

You sound extremely paranoid for someone who accuses others of that. Since you claim to have suffered as an immigrant to Ireland, I find it difficult to understand your attitude. You are clearly trying to place bounds on the discussion. Perhaps you simply don't understand the concept of free speech.:cry:

You might be annoyed with the arrogance of some posters, but your attempt to frame and bound the discussion just doesn't fit. Will you attack me now as well ? :roll:

martind
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Post by martind » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:22 pm

Wow.

Locked
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