Studying on Stamp 3 - effect on naturalisation application

Hi,

I got naturalised as an Irish citizen last month following which, my wife got her Stamp 4. Before this, she was on Stamp 3 starting from the time she entered Ireland, 5 years ago. She was enrolled in a Master's program in the 2015-2016 academic year during which she continued to be on Stamp 3.

Now, she'll be applying for her naturalisation in some months (on the basis of being married to an Irish citizen) and there's one question on Form 8 I'm not sure how to answer -

"Q 5.4 WAS ANY PART OF YOUR TIME IN THE STATE IN THE NINE YEARS PRIOR TO YOUR APPLICATION FOR THE PURPOSES OF STUDY?"

The wording seems to suggest that the answer should be "Yes" if you came to Ireland specifically to study and were on Stamp 2 (which is not true in my wife's case; she took up study only because she was already here and was not on Stamp 2). However, answering "No" might amount to withholding information.

So, I'm confused. I think the right thing to do is to check "Yes" and attach a sheet which qualifies the answer by saying she was still on Stamp 3 during the duration of the study.

Anyone here been in a similar situation before?

@indianzeppelin

Actually, I have the same question.
I applied last Nov for Citz through naturalization (5 years), and still waiting for it.
My wife has been on Stamp3 the whole time and she did a degree on the side here in Ireland while she had Stamp3.

By the way, how did she got the Stamp 4? did you have to wait until you got the passport? or you just went the GNIB to get her Stamp4 with the naturalization cert? did you have to book an appointment?

@indianzeppelin I would put “No” but that’s my personal opinion.

Your wife’s residence here was on Stamp 3 until recently that she changed it to Stamp 4, her residence was never on the basis of studying.

Tatalo wrote:@indianzeppelin

By the way, how did she got the Stamp 4? did you have to wait until you got the passport? or you just went the GNIB to get her Stamp4 with the naturalization cert? did you have to book an appointment?

The day after I got my citizenship approval letter (back in February), I made an appointment. Luckily, the appointment I got was for the very next business day following the ceremony in April. Getting the appointment was the hardest part since I was looking for one even before I got my approval and there were no appointments available every single time I checked. But that particular day, I had the page open with all details filled in and was clicking the "Find Appointments" button now and then. Some slots had opened up when I clicked the button around 10:30am and I grabbed one! So, keep this in mind while looking for an appointment.

The process at the GNIB itself was simple, just like a regular Stamp renewal process (only quicker than before, thanks to the appointment system). I wasn't asked for my passport (which I don't even have yet), my naturalisation certificate was enough.

@indianzeppelin

Thanks for the info. so I guess I should start looking into open appointment slots.
by the way, did they ask for any other documents? i.e. payslips/proof of address?

Cheers!

max307 wrote:@indianzeppelin I would put “No” but that’s my personal opinion.

Your wife’s residence here was on Stamp 3 until recently that she changed it to Stamp 4, her residence was never on the basis of studying.

You're right. As I said, "No" makes sense based on the phrasing of the question.

However, I'm concerned about it being seen as withholding information. That's why I'm wondering if there are any precedents.

Tatalo wrote:@indianzeppelin

Thanks for the info. so I guess I should start looking into open appointment slots.
by the way, did they ask for any other documents? i.e. payslips/proof of address?

Cheers!

Yes, keep looking for an appointment. If you see any open slots, book one for a date after the citizenship ceremony (the one you expect to be part of). If things change, you can always cancel the appointment online.

We were asked for the following documents.
- My wife's passport + her old GNIB card
- My passport from my country of origin + my naturalisation certificate
- Our wedding certificate

We weren't asked for my payslips or our proof address but I did have those and other documents (like P60) handy. So, doesn't hurt to bring them with you.

What information are you going to be withholding? The question refers merely to studying based residence, your wife had not residence for studying purpose at any stage as per the information provided by you.

If you put “Yes” it will imply that she was at some stage a Stamp 2 holder which is the stamp for Non EU residents that are on full time courses and are allowed to work up to 20 hours per week, this could complicate things because Stamp 3 holders are not allowed to work.

I would put “No” but again that’s my personal opinion.

indianzeppelin wrote:

max307 wrote:@indianzeppelin I would put “No” but that’s my personal opinion.

Your wife’s residence here was on Stamp 3 until recently that she changed it to Stamp 4, her residence was never on the basis of studying.

You're right. As I said, "No" makes sense based on the phrasing of the question.

However, I'm concerned about it being seen as withholding information. That's why I'm wondering if there are any precedents.

max307 wrote:What information are you going to be withholding? The question refers merely to studying based residence, your wife had not residence for studying purpose at any stage as per the information provided by you.

If you put “Yes” it will imply that she was at some stage a Stamp 2 holder which is the stamp for Non EU residents that are on full time courses and are allowed to work up to 20 hours per week, this could complicate things because Stamp 3 holders are not allowed to work.

Everything you said makes sense and it would be my own rationale as well.

max307 wrote:
I would put “No” but again that’s my personal opinion.

Again, it would be my reply too, based on my interpretation of the question. However, I do want to check what someone who was in the same situation before has answered, so that when the time comes for us to fill in the form, we won't be in two minds about it.

Hi,

I am applying for naturalisation and am in same position as your wife.

Could you tell me what did you end up answering for the question about if any time in Ireland was for purpose of study?

Regards,
AB

Just answer yes and add a note that it was while she was on stamp 3 on a separate sheet. Alternatively, send them an email and do whatever they say and send the printed email along with the application. This way you are covered.

For the benefit of others who might be in a similar position, we answered "No" to the question and attached a sheet explaining it.

The explanation said that she enrolled in a Master's program a few years after arriving in Ireland and that this enrolment was not the purpose behind her residence, pointing out that this is reflected by her GNIB stamps. It probably didn't matter but I also mentioned that there were no scholarships involved, that the fees for the program were paid in full, and that she didn't undertake any kind of employment while being enrolled in the program.

Of course, the explanation was written in first person since she was the applicant.