UK/IRISH Citizen moving to Ireland with non-EU spouse

I hope someone can give me some advice on which is my best course of action...

I am a UK citizen and I also have Irish citizenship thru my Grandmother. My wife is Chinese and we have been married for 2.5 years. She was a student in the UK when we met. I live in the UK now but intend to make a permanent move to Ireland in the near future.

My wife is in China working at the moment and we have lived together for 8 months in the UK. I have also spent 6 weeks in China.

When I move to ireland, am I better off using my Irish passport/citizenship for my wife to come and live with me?

Or, should I use my UK passport/citizenship to go the EEA Family Permit route? Though, I have read other posts concerning problems with this method and I commiserate with people in that situation!

Also, my wife is a well qualified professional in her own right!

Thanks in advance for any responses/advice given.

limey wrote:I hope someone can give me some advice on which is my best course of action...

I am a UK citizen and I also have Irish citizenship thru my Grandmother. My wife is Chinese and we have been married for 2.5 years. She was a student in the UK when we met. I live in the UK now but intend to make a permanent move to Ireland in the near future.

My wife is in China working at the moment and we have lived together for 8 months in the UK. I have also spent 6 weeks in China.

When I move to ireland, am I better off using my Irish passport/citizenship for my wife to come and live with me?

Or, should I use my UK passport/citizenship to go the EEA Family Permit route? Though, I have read other posts concerning problems with this method and I commiserate with people in that situation!

Also, my wife is a well qualified professional in her own right!

Thanks in advance for any responses/advice given.

either way it might be a good idea to get ther wife to move back to legally reside in the uk with you for a while. make sure ye have documents (eg utility bills with both names on it to prove that ye lived together and she lived legally in uk) not sure if they include period of student as reckonable residence. they dont here.

at least at that point you could do ok on the eu1 form front as she would have met the requirement of having to legally lived in another eu state.


second option, on the basis of irish citizenship: any chance you ever lived in ireland? if so, by moving to an eu state (ie uk, excercising your eu right to free movement) meting your wife who was legally residing in the uk and possibly marring here there (not neccessarily needed), and then move back to ireland, where you have again excersied your eu right to free movement, then the wife might be allowed family reunification regardless of her nationality.

i am not completely sure what the story is if you have never actually lived here, but you ARE/or at least entitled to irish citizenship and have exercised this right by getting an irish passport (sec 6 of inc act 1956-2004 states that it may not be neccessary to actually do this at that point). under article 2 and 3 of bunreacht na héireann this state recoginesss and cheerishes all those who belong to the nation of ireland. so maybe ok on that point. whether or not she would be entitled straight away, it maybe possible under the new employment permits act to be able herself to get a work permit. or it maybe possible to get a spouse work visa (at least there would be labour test) better seek professional legal advise on this issue if you have not lived in ireland.

limey wrote:I hope someone can give me some advice on which is my best course of action...

I am a UK citizen and I also have Irish citizenship thru my Grandmother. My wife is Chinese and we have been married for 2.5 years. She was a student in the UK when we met. I live in the UK now but intend to make a permanent move to Ireland in the near future.

My wife is in China working at the moment and we have lived together for 8 months in the UK. I have also spent 6 weeks in China.

When I move to ireland, am I better off using my Irish passport/citizenship for my wife to come and live with me?

Or, should I use my UK passport/citizenship to go the EEA Family Permit route? Though, I have read other posts concerning problems with this method and I commiserate with people in that situation!

Also, my wife is a well qualified professional in her own right!

Thanks in advance for any responses/advice given.

either way it might be a good idea to get ther wife to move back to legally reside in the uk with you for a while. make sure ye have documents (eg utility bills with both names on it to prove that ye lived together and she lived legally in uk) not sure if they include period of student as reckonable residence. they dont here.

at least at that point you could do ok on the eu1 form front as she would have met the requirement of having to legally lived in another eu state.


second option, on the basis of irish citizenship: any chance you ever lived in ireland? if so, by moving to an eu state (ie uk, excercising your eu right to free movement) meting your wife who was legally residing in the uk and possibly marring here there (not neccessarily needed), and then move back to ireland, where you have again excersied your eu right to free movement, then the wife might be allowed family reunification regardless of her nationality.

i am not completely sure what the story is if you have never actually lived here, but you ARE/or at least entitled to irish citizenship and have exercised this right by getting an irish passport (sec 6 of inc act 1956-2004 states that it may not be neccessary to actually do this at that point). under article 2 and 3 of bunreacht na héireann this state recoginesss and cheerishes all those who belong to the nation of ireland. so maybe ok on that point. whether or not she would be entitled straight away, it maybe possible under the new employment permits act to be able herself to get a work permit. or it maybe possible to get a spouse work visa (at least there would be labour test) better seek professional legal advise on this issue if you have not lived in ireland.

Walrus: Thanks for your reply.

No I have not lived in Ireland. Not yet anyway.

My wife lived in the UK for 1.5 years on a student visa. Then she got a Limited Leave To remain for 2 years when we got married. But she had to go back to China for family and business reasons so we lived together for 5-6 months in the UK in total. Would that be enough time to satisfy the Irish immigration people if we used the Family Permit route?

I have applied for the EEA1 to live in the UK using my Irish citizenship. That is still pending after 3 months. Solely so that my wife could come and live in the UK under the Family Permit for the spouse.

Then we decided we would like to move to Ireland and I thought it would also be pretty straightforward but obviously not.

What do u think ?

walrusgumble wrote: i am not completely sure what the story is if you have never actually lived here, but you ARE/or at least entitled to irish citizenship and have exercised this right by getting an irish passport (sec 6 of inc act 1956-2004 states that it may not be neccessary to actually do this at that point).

If his only link is through a grandparent, then he is not an Irish citizen unless he applies for (and is granted) registration as such.

limey wrote: I have applied for the EEA1 to live in the UK using my Irish citizenship. That is still pending after 3 months. Solely so that my wife could come and live in the UK under the Family Permit for the spouse.

You can't get an EEA1 if you are a British citizen. However, you do not need one to access Surinder Singh rights.

JAJ: I already have obtained Irish citizenship and I also have an Irish passport. I have always been a British citizen too.

I have applied for the EEA1 Family Permit to live in the UK under my Irish passport. Although, I am already a British citizen. I've already explained that I did this so that my wife could come and live in the UK on a Family Permit spouse visa.

Walrus: Thanks for your reply.

No I have not lived in Ireland. Not yet anyway.

My wife lived in the UK for 1.5 years on a student visa. Then she got a Limited Leave To remain for 2 years when we got married. But she had to go back to China for family and business reasons so we lived together for 5-6 months in the UK in total. Would that be enough time to satisfy the Irish immigration people if we used the Family Permit route?

I have applied for the EEA1 to live in the UK using my Irish citizenship. That is still pending after 3 months. Solely so that my wife could come and live in the UK under the Family Permit for the spouse.

Then we decided we would like to move to Ireland and I thought it would also be pretty straightforward but obviously not.

What do u think ?

limey wrote:I have applied for the EEA1 Family Permit to live in the UK under my Irish passport. Although, I am already a British citizen. I've already explained that I did this so that my wife could come and live in the UK on a Family Permit spouse visa.

Once again. As a British citizen you are not subject to any form of immigration control. So you can't get an EEA1. And you don't even need one. Not even for the reason you think you need one.

JAJ: The reason for wanting to get the EEA1 Family Permit under my Irish passport to live in the UK. Is so my wife could join me on a Family Permit in the UK and it would make it a formality and it would be FREE!!!

I know I dont NEED it per se. But it just makes it more clear cut! ie. They have already acknowledged that I have a right to live in the UK as a Irish citizen by stamping my Irish passport.

I haven't received it back yet so it remains to be seen what the UK immigration will do. I think they will process it.

This isn't really helping to resolve my original post that was to live in Ireland with my Non-EU spouse!

limey: if you are an Irish citizen and wish to go the Spousal Visa route, please read a number of posts on this topic in this branch of the forum. Your wife would need to apply for a D-Spouse visa to join you in Ireland. If granted, on arrival in Ireland, she would simply have to register with the GNIB to get her Stamp 4 and GNIB Card (ID card showing Residency Stamp).

It is not a simple process to get the D-Spouse Visa as many posts in this forum will show. Despite the Irish constitution clearly stating that it protects the rights of the family, there is NO entitlement to Residency for non-EU nationals in Ireland, simply on the basis of marriage to an Irish Citizen. So, it is at the discretion of the DOJ as to whether your wife will be granted a visa or not. I've posted this advice in other posts, but be sure to include as much info as possible to prove your relationship when submitting evidence. The fact that your wife was on a Student Visa to the UK should not matter, the main thing they seem to look at is if you have met, if you have lived together, if you in a "real" marriage etc.

Personally after reading so many posts regarding the problems faced by people trying to go the EU1 route, I'd advise using your Irish passport in this case. Even if you pass the EU residency requirement (which most on this forum do not), it will most likely still take upwards of 6 months for any residence permit to be issued.

As Walrusgrumble stated, your wife could always apply for the Spouse Work Permit, but I'd leave this as a 2nd option if you fail in getting the D-Spouse Visa. The D Spouse Visa entitles your wife to a Stamp 4 which allows freedom to work anywhere in ROI and freedom to reside for up to 5 years (can be extended at that point).

Your wife could apply now from China to the Irish Embassy in Bejing. They currently process Work Authorisation applications within 24 hours, so presumably it would be quicker to get a response on a Spouse Visa application from there also. Other Embassies quote 6-8 weeks.

Again, please do read other posts for more info on this subject before applying. Best of luck

Scrudu: Thanks for your response. Much appreciated!
Can she apply for and obtain the D-Spouse visa before I am actually resident in Ireland?


Going back to EEA Family permits for a moment...
1: At present in Ireland it seems to be that both the spouse and partner need to have legally resident in another EU/EEA country to qualify. Does that mean that if my wife were to join me in the UK on a Family Permit here using my Irish passport, that we would automatically qualify when we applied for the right to live in Ireland under EEA Family Permit rules using my British passport?

2: Also, the EEA/EU Family Permit rules in Ireland say that the couple should have lived together in another EEA/EU country PRIOR to applying in Ireland. Does that mean immediately prior or would the 6-7 months we have already lived together in the past in the UK suffice?

In Theory, moving to Ireland can seem straightforward using the E.U1 route or the Irish citizenship route,but the Department of Justice has yet to get it's act together. You might be in for more trouble than you counted on if you decide to move to Ireland. The British seem to be a bit more organized,so I'd suggest staying in Britain till the Irish DOJ sorts itself out. Trust me, I learnt the hard way. The government does not like immigrants!!! (I heard from someone who had applied for a workpermit that when his company hired him, someone from the DOJ called them and almost threatened them why they couldnt find an irishman to do the job)They dropped the ball on half of eastern europe moving here, so they are trying to limit others.

limey wrote:JAJ: The reason for wanting to get the EEA1 Family Permit under my Irish passport to live in the UK. Is so my wife could join me on a Family Permit in the UK and it would make it a formality and it would be FREE!!!

I know I dont NEED it per se. But it just makes it more clear cut!

It's not a question of whether you need it or want it. You can't get it, simple as that.

I haven't received it back yet so it remains to be seen what the UK immigration will do. I think they will process it.

They should reject it. But if they "process" it by mistake, it will be legally null and void.

JAJ: Do you work in immigration? You make short statements but never provide any backup or quote any rules. This is not helping me! This is so important to me I need to know how to get out of the immigration f***in nightmare!

If it is not possible for me to use my Irish citizenship. Does that mean I can still use the EEA Family Permit route to bring my wife here using my British citizenship?

JAJ wrote:

walrusgumble wrote: i am not completely sure what the story is if you have never actually lived here, but you ARE/or at least entitled to irish citizenship and have exercised this right by getting an irish passport (sec 6 of inc act 1956-2004 states that it may not be neccessary to actually do this at that point).

If his only link is through a grandparent, then he is not an Irish citizen unless he applies for (and is granted) registration as such.

he was entitled to irish citizenship by decent. (not absolute of course) fair enough he would, if hasnot, to make an application for the passport. are you sure you are correct in what you say? how did all these non irish footballers ever play for the rep of ireland soccer team? they managed to get passports cause their grandparents came from ireland.

scrudu is right though, eea might be a bit dodgy. but at least it would be free. despite the fact that it takes ages, for some reason they are very quick to reply when they are refusing

scrudu has made good points though, eea form is a bit dodgy


either way more than likely, the dept would not bother their backside in looking at your application on the basis of irish nationality and instead make an eea application. ensure that she has evidence that she legally reside in the uk, which she did. have prove that ye lived together as well. if the irish gov did not have this rule, it would be more straight forward, as with your british citizenship, you would excercise your eu right to freemovement to ireland and family reunification regardless of spouses nationality. but alias that is the crap ya have to put up with. from the sounds of it though, your wife may satisfy the requirements. make the application for your wife. if you get refused, seek advise from solicitor who specialises in immigration, maybe be grounds to challenge decision.

as for the form eu 1, even if he uses his british nationality he would have to get his wife to apply for the form eu1 (eea form). at this present moment it might not be the best option with the law as it is. however as his wife has legally resided (whether or not student will be included) he may succeed in the application. the dept might even have asked the wife to apply for such application even if he used his irish nationality if granted.

limey wrote:JAJ: Do you work in immigration? You make short statements but never provide any backup or quote any rules. This is not helping me! This is so important to me I need to know how to get out of the immigration f***in nightmare!

If it is not possible for me to use my Irish citizenship. Does that mean I can still use the EEA Family Permit route to bring my wife here using my British citizenship?

British citizens are not subject to any form of control under the Immigration Act 1971. Hence it is legally impossible for a British citizen to apply for, be granted or hold any form of permit to live in the UK.

And once again, British citizens who hold the nationality of another EEA state or have immediately lived in another EEA state, can choose to sponsor under the EEA immigration rules if they prefer.

If you'd like a reference, go to chapter 21.4.7 of the Diplomatic Service Procedures on Entry Clearance, available at http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk

walrusgumble wrote: he was entitled to irish citizenship by decent. (not absolute of course) fair enough he would, if hasnot, to make an application for the passport. are you sure you are correct in what you say? how did all these non irish footballers ever play for the rep of ireland soccer team? they managed to get passports cause their grandparents came from ireland.

If they had grandparents then they first had to make an application for registration as an Irish citizen. Residence in the country is not required for this kind of registration.

With a parent, citizenship is automatic and they only needed to apply for a passport.

The law is quite clearly set down in the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act.

JAJ: Thanks for the 21.4.7 link! That contains the exact text I need to get my wife into the UK using my Irish citizenship! The next step being to move to Ireland.

Walrus suggested getting my wife legally resident in the UK first and I think this is very good advice!

Quote:-
21.4.7 Dual nationals / Irish / EEA nationals holding settled status
Dual nationals, Irish nationals or EEA nationals holding settled status may choose to bring their family members to the UK either on an EEA family permit or via the Immigration Rules.

If the applicants choose to be treated under EC law they should be issued with an EEA family permit free of charge. If they choose to come under the Immigration Rules, they must pay the appropriate entry clearance application fee.

In addition, if the dual national / Irish or EEA national holding settled status chooses to bring his/her family members under EC law, the family members would not be entitled to apply for settled status until they had resided with the Irish / Dual or EEA national in the UK for five years. However, if they choose to come under the Immigration Rules they would be entitled to apply for settled status after two years.

You are not under any duty to ask sponsors who say that they are British whether they hold, or could hold, dual nationality. The onus is upon the applicant to provide this information if he/she thinks it is relevant to the application. If dual nationality is mentioned by the applicant, you should explain the choice of whether to come under the Immigration Rules or EC law but should make clear that evidence of EEA nationality (for example EEA passport) will be required. A possible entitlement to dual citizenship (for example birth in Ireland) is not sufficient.

See here...
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 6328#point four seven

JAJ: If someone wants to claim Irish citizenship through their Irish Grandparent(s) they can do this outside the ROI using the Foreign Births register at the Irish Embassy. They will need birth, marriage and maybe death certificates to prove the family link.

See here for info...
http://www.irishlinks.co.uk/irish-citiz ... arents.htm