Long Citizenship waiting time disc-n on Integration forum

[cocoa123]

Citizenship waiting times, a lack of resources or a way of putting people off?

People in Ireland wait two years and often longer for their applications for citizenship to be processed. This is alot longer than most other countries, for example in New Zealand the waiting time is two months.

Two years?! Only two years?! Those are the luckiest might be. One friend of mine has been waiting for 39 months. Can you belive it? Can it be true? In an other EU country probably NOT. But in Ireland? Easily! Who cares about migrants - most vulnerable people, who don't have support or protection of this country!

Answer the question and express you opinion about long citizenship processing times on Irish Integration Centre new forum here: http://www.integrationcentre.ie/Forums.aspx

[walrusgumble]

Citizenship waiting times, a lack of resources or a way of putting people off?

People in Ireland wait two years and often longer for their applications for citizenship to be processed. This is alot longer than most other countries, for example in New Zealand the waiting time is two months.

Two years?! Only two years?! Those are the luckiest might be. One friend of mine has been waiting for 39 months. Can you belive it? Can it be true? In an other EU country probably NOT. But in Ireland? Easily! Who cares about migrants - most vulnerable people, who don't have support or protection of this country!

Answer the question and express you opinion about long citizenship processing times on Irish Integration Centre new forum here: http://www.integrationcentre.ie/Forums.aspx

"most vulnerable people, who don't have support or protection of this country! "

Absolute nonsense. take a trip around the urban areas of the country for yourself

Hang on with the hysterics. Many of those who apply for citizenship hold stamp 4s. Even if they hold Stamp1's they have the exact same (well by the book anyway) legislative protection as an Irish/European person in the field of social welfare entitlements and more importantly employment rights and protection. THey can not be discriminated (not allowed anyway, I can't say it does not happen, but look at places like France, not exactly the leading light) Still, when there are problems there are NGO's and the state authorities to turn to. THere are plenty of right on pc liberals who will be more than happy to assist.

When there are job loses, they are in no different position than the Irish / EU person. If you are on Stamp 4 I can guarantee you, considering the length of time in Ireland, you will not be threatened with deportation on that basis. As for work permit holders, well that's the risk, hence the whole purpose of the permit scheme, ie temporary.

THere can be no denying that the immigrant, particularily the non EU immigrant has it toughter than all, or most. But how does not have Irish citizenship (at this time) stop you from working and living as per usual? travelling, gee fair play to be able to afford it now, god bless Ryanair, lol.

So, again, strictly on the strict basis of been denied citizenship, how is a stamp 4 immigrant more vulnerable than they would be if granted citizenship. Correct me if I am wrong, but its simply not a case of collect 12 crisp packets (ie 60 months) and join the club.

If they don't have the support or protection, really? since when were they denied access to the courts or denied legal aid as per the natives??? Do us a favour and read section 3 of the 1999 immigration act as amended. Do you see any groups as much as a quarter the size of the British National Front parading around Ireland? Don't immigrants have a vote and can stand in local elections?

[cocoa123]

Even if they hold Stamp1's they have the exact same (well by the book anyway) legislative protection as an Irish/European person in the field of social welfare entitlements and more importantly employment rights and protection. THey can not be discriminated (not allowed anyway, I can't say it does not happen, ...

Do you ever know that most of non-EU migrants affaid to clime their social welfare after years of paying taxes even if they are qualified to? Why? Because INIS denies applications for the reason below

applicants for naturalisation must prove they can support themselves and their families while living in Ireland. If you can show that you have not received State support in the 3 years before your application, this will generally meet the Minister for Justice and Law Reform's requirement that you have been supporting yourself and your dependants and that you will continue to do so.

[walrusgumble]

Even if they hold Stamp1's they have the exact same (well by the book anyway) legislative protection as an Irish/European person in the field of social welfare entitlements and more importantly employment rights and protection. THey can not be discriminated (not allowed anyway, I can't say it does not happen, ...

Do you ever know that most of non-EU migrants affaid to clime their social welfare after years of paying taxes even if they are qualified to? Why? Because INIS denies applications for the reason below

applicants for naturalisation must prove they can support themselves and their families while living in Ireland. If you can show that you have not received State support in the 3 years before your application, this will generally meet the Minister for Justice and Law Reform's requirement that you have been supporting yourself and your dependants and that you will continue to do so.

There is still nothing stoping them from claiming social (which they are fully entitled too), and child benefit does not effect their claim. Failure to do it, is selfish when their families are in need. There is absolutely nothing wrong with EXPECTING a candidate for citizenship to be self sufficient for at least 3 years during their time in Ireland, it does not effect their ultimate requirement, ie residence. And so what if they paid their taxes, they were granted permission to come here and work. What do you expect them to do, not pay their share? Everyone else does. We, along with many other countries have our own problems with certain privilegde sections of the community dodging their duties on tax. Why should citizenship be granted if it means then that once obtained people will then either intentionally or unintentionally seek state protection. Hence on main reason for the delays - to see how many will stick it out and really be bothered about citizenship. You really think the government or at least department of social welfare is not sad to see thousands leave this island?

Your first comment still fails to explain how they are vulnerable. Its a choice they make

Your second quote, you are wrong. it does not neccessarily proove that you will, in the future, be able to support yourself, you really think the economy is going to get any better? Never occur to you (though something people are finally coping on too, as pointed out by me previously) that other aspects such as capability to pay state pensions, child benefit, health board capabilities (don't laugh) and other public services are considered and their potential ability in light of future increase in citizenship are considered. it takes time.

thankfully, for many, it will be unlikely that they will be refused, but it will take time.

Again, you fail to highlight the candidates vulnerability. Now, if there was evidence that someone (stamp 4)was actually threatened deportation due to 4-6 years work and now lost their jobs, then, you would have a point.

Take out the intial department letter granting a non eu immigrant status, it clearly states that they must be economically viable,

[cocoa123]

All that you're saying still doesn't explain 3-4 years of application processing times. If other countries can do it in 2-6 months, Ireland can do so as well, just dones't want to. No need. Doesn't bother. No tranparency, no accountability, no responsibility.

[9jeirean]

All that you're saying still doesn't explain 3-4 years of application processing times. If other countries can do it in 2-6 months, Ireland can do so as well, just dones't want to. No need. Doesn't bother. No tranparency, no accountability, no responsibility.

Hi cocoa123, welcome to the forum. Here a little bed time reading for you http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0 might help to put a few things here in perspective. Nice to have you around.

9jeirean

[walrusgumble]

All that you're saying still doesn't explain 3-4 years of application processing times. If other countries can do it in 2-6 months, Ireland can do so as well, just dones't want to. No need. Doesn't bother. No tranparency, no accountability, no responsibility.

I have asked you clearly to point out how immigrants are the most vulbnerable and do not have protection. I have pointed out that it is nonsense. You have done nothing to back up what you said. Cut out the hysterics when trying to raise valid points.

There have been many threads before regarding the delays. In case you have not notice, a substantial amount of people have applied for citizenship. Processing applications are time consuming as they rely on other departments such as the Gardaí, Courts Service, Social Welfare and Central Statistics Office. The State don't have more money to splash around for extra resources and staff, which seem prehistoric. I can assure you, the courts would be happy to rule in an applicant's favour if it had jurisdiction to do so.

You claim that there is no accountability. Stop talking boll*x. The INIS website since circa 2007 have published the waiting time. People, assuming they have brains, were told how long it would take, they decided to take the risk (reluctantly). Its not like they were promised anything or tricked into a notion that they will get a decision in 1 year. There is no point raving on about other countries, your wasting your time. Sure look at our hosptials, look at our transport - its Sh8te.

[walrusgumble]

All that you're saying still doesn't explain 3-4 years of application processing times. If other countries can do it in 2-6 months, Ireland can do so as well, just dones't want to. No need. Doesn't bother. No tranparency, no accountability, no responsibility.

Hi cocoa123, welcome to the forum. Here a little bed time reading for you http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0 might help to put a few things here in perspective. Nice to have you around.

9jeirean

Yes cocoa welcome to people like 9jeirean (it should be eireann btw) people could be told and proven that the sky is blue yet he /she will come out and say its pink.

For all your smart alex comments, who has been more accurate on what is actually happening as oppose to what should happen or what ye would like to happen, me or the other crowd you made their arguments? still waiting (i think you have it)?

People like you are still in denial about the reasons for the delays despite govenment agents putting on sworn affidavits the reasons for the delay. The reasons have also been outlined in the media such as government enenmy the Irish Times. Yet, as per usual, people like you believe its a conspiracy.

The bottom line is, Irish born People do not want to see extra money been pumped into the INIS (assuming that there is extra money) there are pay and recruitment freezes in the civil/public service. The country is taking in too many people, never mind awarding citizenship (ie complete inability to remove the person in the future and complete rights to state resources without effecting status)

So whether you like it or not, get use to it. You would swear its a prison sentence. The country owes you nothing, and you don't owe the country anything. You were told before and during the application (acknowledgement sheet) how long a decision takes, that is your accountability.

[9jeirean]

Yes cocoa welcome to people like 9jeirean (it should be eireann btw) people could be told and proven that the sky is blue yet he /she will come out and say its pink.

For all your smart alex comments, who has been more accurate on what is actually happening as oppose to what should happen or what ye would like to happen, me or the other crowd you made their arguments? still waiting (i think you have it)?

People like you are still in denial about the reasons for the delays despite govenment agents putting on sworn affidavits the reasons for the delay. The reasons have also been outlined in the media such as government enenmy the Irish Times. Yet, as per usual, people like you believe its a conspiracy.

The bottom line is, Irish born People do not want to see extra money been pumped into the INIS (assuming that there is extra money) there are pay and recruitment freezes in the civil/public service. The country is taking in too many people, never mind awarding citizenship (ie complete inability to remove the person in the future and complete rights to state resources without effecting status)

So whether you like it or not, get use to it. You would swear its a prison sentence. The country owes you nothing, and you don't owe the country anything. You were told before and during the application (acknowledgement sheet) how long a decision takes, that is your accountability.

Raw nerves right? I know, you'll get used to it in time. All I did was provide a link to the previous thread on the issue to Cocoa123, so Why are you getting so touchy? lol. These things aren't going to go away so you may want to start desensitizing your nerves mate

Sour grapes.


BTW the user name is 9jeirean. That's one more thing for you to get used to

Slán

9jeirean

[walrusgumble]

nervy?no.irration to people talking dross ,yes. the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods. you tend to get fairly touchy yourself when challenged. as for the name fair enough your choice,but you spelt it wrong unintentionaly.i wouldn't be so smug its people like your goodself will feel the pinch harder and faster if the county continues the way it is

[fatty patty]

the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods.

Ok...quiet a statement there...but thought you said that...

Fair play, so as I expected in my ealier post and what we are saying, its not really got anything to do with the amount but just the minister "using his discretion" and basically stone walling them in the hope that they will go away and leave

source: page 5.... http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=80

If the minister play stone walling then why not the citizenship hopeful shout foul play?!?

[walrusgumble]

the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods.

Ok...quiet a statement there...but thought you said that...

Fair play, so as I expected in my ealier post and what we are saying, its not really got anything to do with the amount but just the minister "using his discretion" and basically stone walling them in the hope that they will go away and leave

source: page 5.... http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=80

If the minister play stone walling then why not the citizenship hopeful shout foul play?!?

What has the link achieved? People getting decisions faster? Wow, I made a statement that was on the mind of everyone else, hardly groundbreaking. Again, how just it justify spending more money, which we don't have into resources so a few more candidates can get a decision?

Why not shout foul play? What foul play? Where in the legislation does it say the Minister will give citizenship? The Minister's department has had quite a number of pressing issues in the past 5 years to deal with, eg Growing Crime Rate, EU Treaty Rights, Asylum, Leave to Remain etc.

One question, and taking out any delays by the applicant in replying to the minister's requet for further documents, how many people fail to get a decision within or around the time period stipulated on the website and letters published at time of application , or worse, at present time?

[9jeirean]

nervy?no.irration to people talking dross ,yes. the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods. you tend to get fairly touchy yourself when challenged. as for the name fair enough your choice,but you spelt it wrong unintentionaly.i wouldn't be so smug its people like your goodself will feel the pinch harder and faster if the county continues the way it is

Unintentionally, you said? I see that the choice of the username is bringing out what it was intended to bring out in people like yourself who wouldn't see beyond their parochial world view. A few open-minded and smart fellows in the forum had decoded what the username stands for, but since your myopic mindset would not allow you, let me oblige you for the last time. The username 9jeirean is an infusion of two words and two 'worlds' to which the user is part of. It represents the changing dynamics for which modern day Ireland has to live with and grow with. Now run along and go figure.

[fatty patty]

the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods.

Ok...quiet a statement there...but thought you said that...

Fair play, so as I expected in my ealier post and what we are saying, its not really got anything to do with the amount but just the minister "using his discretion" and basically stone walling them in the hope that they will go away and leave

source: page 5.... http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=80

If the minister play stone walling then why not the citizenship hopeful shout foul play?!?

What has the link achieved? People getting decisions faster? Wow, I made a statement that was on the mind of everyone else, hardly groundbreaking. Again, how just it justify spending more money, which we don't have into resources so a few more candidates can get a decision?

Why not shout foul play? What foul play? Where in the legislation does it say the Minister will give citizenship? The Minister's department has had quite a number of pressing issues in the past 5 years to deal with, eg Growing Crime Rate, EU Treaty Rights, Asylum, Leave to Remain etc.

One question, and taking out any delays by the applicant in replying to the minister's requet for further documents, how many people fail to get a decision within or around the time period stipulated on the website and letters published at time of application , or worse, at present time?

You are mixing two things to justify your statement. You are smarter than that walrus, come on now. It has never been about more money, all it is about is to process applicants application in 26 months time as it said, if other countries can do it why cant Ireland...and they are more banjaxed than this state.

How many people? At present hardly anyone is getting it in the time stipulated on INIS poster. You are throwing the "show me the where its a promise of citizenship" statement every now and again....no there is no promise, neither in UK nor in Deutchland BUT it said on INIS that if you Mr. Walrusgumble/fatty patty/cocoa/9j furnish this such and such criteria....we will grant you in 26 MONTHS. What one dont understand how can a forward computerized nation cant turn an app around in this time. I think INIS should change the 26 months to this..........look you are more than welcome to apply but don't come knocking on our door, when we want to give you we will that means 100 applications process a year.

[CheGuevara]

the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods.

Ok...quiet a statement there...but thought you said that...

Fair play, so as I expected in my ealier post and what we are saying, its not really got anything to do with the amount but just the minister "using his discretion" and basically stone walling them in the hope that they will go away and leave

source: page 5.... http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=80

If the minister play stone walling then why not the citizenship hopeful shout foul play?!?

What has the link achieved? People getting decisions faster? Wow, I made a statement that was on the mind of everyone else, hardly groundbreaking. Again, how just it justify spending more money, which we don't have into resources so a few more candidates can get a decision?

Why not shout foul play? What foul play? Where in the legislation does it say the Minister will give citizenship? The Minister's department has had quite a number of pressing issues in the past 5 years to deal with, eg Growing Crime Rate, EU Treaty Rights, Asylum, Leave to Remain etc.

One question, and taking out any delays by the applicant in replying to the minister's requet for further documents, how many people fail to get a decision within or around the time period stipulated on the website and letters published at time of application , or worse, at present time?

You are mixing two things to justify your statement. You are smarter than that walrus, come on now. It has never been about more money, all it is about is to process applicants application in 26 months time as it said, if other countries can do it why cant Ireland...and they are more banjaxed than this state.

How many people? At present hardly anyone is getting it in the time stipulated on INIS poster. You are throwing the "show me the where its a promise of citizenship" statement every now and again....no there is no promise, neither in UK nor in Deutchland BUT it said on INIS that if you Mr. Walrusgumble/fatty patty/cocoa/9j furnish this such and such criteria....we will grant you in 26 MONTHS. What one dont understand how can a forward computerized nation cant turn an app around in this time. I think INIS should change the 26 months to this..........look you are more than welcome to apply but don't come knocking on our door, when we want to give you we will that means 100 applications process a year.

Look at the state of the economy and the sorry state of affairs then tell me why anyone is surprised that it takes forever. Incompetence at it's height.

[walrusgumble]

nervy?no.irration to people talking dross ,yes. the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods. you tend to get fairly touchy yourself when challenged. as for the name fair enough your choice,but you spelt it wrong unintentionaly.i wouldn't be so smug its people like your goodself will feel the pinch harder and faster if the county continues the way it is

Unintentionally, you said? I see that the choice of the username is bringing out what it was intended to bring out in people like yourself who wouldn't see beyond their parochial world view. A few open-minded and smart fellows in the forum had decoded what the username stands for, but since your myopic mindset would not allow you, let me oblige you for the last time. The username 9jeirean is an infusion of two words and two 'worlds' to which the user is part of. It represents the changing dynamics for which modern day Ireland has to live with and grow with. Now run along and go figure.

Would you ever shut the hell up, ya clown. It was a tongue in check comment to 9eirean(n), like an annoying Irish language school teacher to a pupil being forced to spell out his aimsir laithreach. I am sure 9eirean is not falling over himself in self pitty over his English - Irish Dictionary. oh yeah, since when does the number 9, constitute a word?


On a serious note, though, parochial world view, how the feck does an insistence of getting Irish spellings correct, or (i think patty notes this) the correct use of the countries name when speaking English show a narrow view? Its is ye that try to use the Irish language, expecting to be taken seriously are we? If your going to use it, then do it correctly, and not spout on about the dross you have said. You know damn all about what my world views are. You tell me where your from, and we will see have great your country is, ya hypocrite.


Your explanation of the usename would make Fintan O'Toole proud, full of hot air pretence. Modern Ireland and how culture will change? feck off, what has actually changed? Ze German and British Prime Minister seem at odds with this so called change and multiculturalism nosh (Their attitdue is a little over the top I would admit, but their people seem to think it) Its a username, so what, hardly something to write home about once the first paragraph is noted.

Run along and go figure? ha ha ha ha . What actual point have you made? It sounds like some weird version of David McSavage's piss take on Mary Robinson

Be honest, you mispelt it and only realising it now... it's not like their is anything to be ashamed of. jeez. I must say, I wish I thought of your reply when dealing with English teachers correcting mispellings and grammer mistakes in essays, it would have been brilliant.

[walrusgumble]

the links achieves nothing but moaning , persecution complex and falsehoods.

Ok...quiet a statement there...but thought you said that...

Fair play, so as I expected in my ealier post and what we are saying, its not really got anything to do with the amount but just the minister "using his discretion" and basically stone walling them in the hope that they will go away and leave

source: page 5.... http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... c&start=80

If the minister play stone walling then why not the citizenship hopeful shout foul play?!?

What has the link achieved? People getting decisions faster? Wow, I made a statement that was on the mind of everyone else, hardly groundbreaking. Again, how just it justify spending more money, which we don't have into resources so a few more candidates can get a decision?

Why not shout foul play? What foul play? Where in the legislation does it say the Minister will give citizenship? The Minister's department has had quite a number of pressing issues in the past 5 years to deal with, eg Growing Crime Rate, EU Treaty Rights, Asylum, Leave to Remain etc.

One question, and taking out any delays by the applicant in replying to the minister's requet for further documents, how many people fail to get a decision within or around the time period stipulated on the website and letters published at time of application , or worse, at present time?

You are mixing two things to justify your statement. You are smarter than that walrus, come on now. It has never been about more money, all it is about is to process applicants application in 26 months time as it said, if other countries can do it why cant Ireland...and they are more banjaxed than this state.

How many people? At present hardly anyone is getting it in the time stipulated on INIS poster. You are throwing the "show me the where its a promise of citizenship" statement every now and again....no there is no promise, neither in UK nor in Deutchland BUT it said on INIS that if you Mr. Walrusgumble/fatty patty/cocoa/9j furnish this such and such criteria....we will grant you in 26 MONTHS. What one dont understand how can a forward computerized nation cant turn an app around in this time. I think INIS should change the 26 months to this..........look you are more than welcome to apply but don't come knocking on our door, when we want to give you we will that means 100 applications process a year.

Fatty, as you know the running over government agencies does not run on water. Staff members are being thrown around different sections to deal with imminent matters, eg EU Treaty Rights Section Decisions and the like. Granted, there are staff that prefer sitting in Tipperary drinkign thea and reading the latest British magazine as oppose to working.

Which countries are still handing out citizenship during this current economic climate? If so, no wonder they are still fecked.

As for your question regarding why Ireland can't get decisions done in light of their supposed technology savvy, well, if that was how a country decides cases, no wonder its fecked. All joking, sure look how we love to count ballots at elections. The citizenship process is clearly done manually

[9jeirean]

Would you ever shut the hell up.................

You wish don't you?

No matter how much of an irritation this is for you, this ain't going nowhere. Trust me, the longer the shenanigan draws on the louder the uproar will be.

As for the username, as I said in my earlier post, what you see is who you are so if that's what you see good luck with that. The username 9jeirean obviously has more deeper meaning than you can probably mentally comprehend but I'll leave you with your delusion on that count.

When I do have more time, I will come back and address your other rants which by the way are laden with deep-seated insecurity. For now you can keep yourself busy with this


http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/200 ... ip-regime/

[walrusgumble]

Would you ever shut the hell up.................

You wish don't you?

No matter how much of an irritation this is for you, this ain't going nowhere. Trust me, the longer the shenanigan draws on the louder the uproar will be.

As for the username, as I said in my earlier post, what you see is who you are so if that's what you see good luck with that. The username 9jeirean obviously has more deeper meaning than you can probably mentally comprehend but I'll leave you with your delusion on that count.

When I do have more time, I will come back and address your other rants which by the way are laden with deep-seated insecurity. For now you can keep yourself busy with this


http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/200 ... ip-regime/

I don't want you to shut up when you are searching for better conditions. That is what a democratic and free country allows, and as a member of such a country, I support and accept it. Can your former country men say that? Well? . What I don't tolerate is unfounded and idiotic comments. They will be challenged in debate, again can your former country say that?

I am sorry to burst your bubble " the longer the shenanigan draws on the louder the uproar will be". ha well, as long as this current environment is going, it will be a case of the longer ye will be ignored. Uproar? What next 9eirean? What will ye do next?

Again the username, was a sly dig, tongue in check, not to be taken seriously. You fell for the bait (which is must admit was not actually intended by me), who is the one that's insecure? you should have ignored it? Get off your moral high horse

".more deeper meaning than you can probably mentally comprehend but I'll leave you with your delusion on that count"

I am sorry I am lost on this one, delusion? care to be specific on that one. And don't get all immigrant nonsense on this one. For all I know, you are Irish born with settled immigrant family, British or other EU. I would be interested to hear what you have to say about that. My family members (great grandparent's family and grandparents family) went through quite alot, along with many other family members in order to become a free country and get to use that term "eireann" (and yes they were active in 1919-1923), so there would be genuine deeper meaning to the term, one I can fully comprehened, far better than someone who has just come off the boat, so i would strongly suggest that you watch your gob if I were you. On a lighter note it was explained very clearly the joys of being taught Irish in school and how strict teachers were - which turned many Irish people against the language.


How is not wanting people the following people been granted citizenship consider insecure?:
+ who have drawn social welfare in the past and whilst waiting
+ People who have been before the courts
+ People who have clearly shown (as seen on this website) feck all intention (despite the court oath) of staying in Ireland in the future. If ye want EU citizenship go to another country

Again, what part of the state is running low on money and resources to process the applications and support additional citizens, can ye not understand? Its not a case of being inhumane or prejduice, its a case of not have the means to do so. A country needs to assist, at minium their own people first (regardless of their background, as some people's parent's may not be Irish or traditionally Irish Catholic, or white), whether its trying to get them to stay, or helping them leave the country and ensuring that they come back when things improve


More to the point, do you have any real idea of how really bad the country is economically and financially? The fact that people continue to compare this country with the UK results, in light of the size and its economic power, is mind numbingly retarded. At least, if you want your argument to be taken seriously, compare this country with a similar one in population and economic well being

Again, assuming that you will be in the country permanentely, how is citizenship going to make things better? Answer that simple question.

Turning to the link ,

"It should be pointed out that a Government official was recently quoted in a newspaper as saying 9 per cent of valid citizenship applications it receives are refused, with many applicants submitting invalid or incomplete forms. Far from being reassuring, if the reason that comparatively so few applications for Irish citizenship are successful is because very significant numbers of people are submitting incomplete or invalid applications, then this statistic just reinforces our view that the process is in need of an overhaul. If the Government official’s figures are right, then the process is demonstrably unclear and difficult to navigate."

The application form and guidelines are clear. If someone's English language capabilities are not up to stratch, then what are they doing applying? The application form is not unique in asking the typical questions. A solicitor is required to fill up the Statutory Declaration, properly, so that problem should be comepetenly looked after. THere is a check list to tell you exactly what documents are required. There are NGO's and solicitors who are willing to assist. So getting a rather simple application form wrong is reckless and careless. The website makes it clear what you must do and the department acknowledge your application. Some people actually have sent applications way when they are 6 months short of the clearly required 60 months. Some people think that you simply need to be here for 60 months - incorrect, the passport needs to have GNIB stamps stating 60 months, so no delays in renewing boys and girls

The Immigration Council are very big in what they say, why didn't they actually state the precise reasons for applications being returned. After all they interviewed the people. Hardly an overhall required, but better care to be taken by the applicant. This is not some application for a raffle, but a serious application for citizenship. You would not dare make such mistakes on a CV.

To be of good character, the gardaí won't be bothering you too much if you are not messing. Just because you get off in court on road traffic matters (reality is the garda never bothered to attend but if he did you would likely loose) should hardly get you off on basis that there is no conviction. I would admit know, the notion of being refused on basis of penalty points is very very very worrinying (although if for speeding, i have absolutely no sympathy)

[cocoa123]

no probs. Just hope that irishes being treated in US, Australia, Canada and all over the world exactly the same way as they treat newcomers here. That's it.

[walrusgumble]

no probs. Just hope that irishes being treated in US, Australia, Canada and all over the world exactly the same way as they treat newcomers here. That's it.

That was not your original point at all. It is not like the Irish always got the big welcome mat from these countries either, as far back as the 1800's. But when they did get there, and ignored the false carricatures of the Irish by the Brits, they along with many other nationalities such as the Chinese, Italians, and Polish to name a few, the Irish greatly contributed (quite clear) through prejudice, blood (Civil & World Wars) and perseverance to their socieities. (They also brought out the bad in same - remember McCarthtism? Ye, that chap had strong Catholic Irish blood, and its not like the Irish were not richly rewarded)

Point is, people have to earn the respect, in this context, work hard, stay out of trouble and be self sufficient.

Again, it's simply not a case of wanting to give blank refusals, the reasons for refusals are well known by the way and people who attend lawyers will know in advance. The state is genuinely bangjaxed, and it is for most part, probably 60-70%, a case a incompetence or bad organisation than malice for the delays. Other departments, such as social welfare, according to friends, are in similar enough boat, and they would be in more urgent need.