Non citizenship options for spouses of Irish Citizens

Just wondering, if a non-EU spouse of an Irish citizen doesn't want to go the Citizenship route (e.g. when country of citizenship doesn't allow dual citizenship), what options are available to them for more longer term residency stamps than Stamp 4? From what I've read the options for holders of Stamp 4 (Spouse of Irish Citizen) are as follows:

1. Citizenship is available (for application at least) after a period of 3 years residency and 3 years marriage.
2. Long Term Residency which is normally available after 60mths residency is not available to non-EU Spouses of Irish Citizens according to http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Lo ... _Residency

   Applications for Long Term Residency cannot be accepted from persons in the categories below:
   * The applicant has permission to remain on the basis of his/her marriage to an Irish national (refer applicant to Spouse of Irish National Unit).

3. The WCATT (Without Condition as to Time) Stamp or Stamp 5 is available after 96mths or 8 years according to http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Wi ... dorsements

Is this it? So again, spouses of Irish citizens have less options than other non-EU residents. They can either apply for citizenship or wait for 8 years and apply for WCATT?

Many thanks for the information - this will prove useful when I return to Ireland with my non-EEA wife.

instead of the LTR spouses of irish nationals can also renew their stamp 4 every 5 years. therefore, they get an equivalent of LTR - stamp 4 for 5 years, which is done at GNIB, without the need to apply through LTR section.

agniukas wrote:instead of the LTR spouses of irish nationals can also renew their stamp 4 every 5 years. therefore, they get an equivalent of LTR - stamp 4 for 5 years, which is done at GNIB, without the need to apply through LTR section.

Can this also be done for stamp 4 EuFam, for spouses of Irish nationals who have excercised their treaty rights in another EU country?

agniukas wrote:instead of the LTR spouses of irish nationals can also renew their stamp 4 every 5 years. therefore, they get an equivalent of LTR - stamp 4 for 5 years, which is done at GNIB, without the need to apply through LTR section.

So you're saying that LTR is nothing more than the temporary Stamp 4 visa which allows them to stay for another 5 years (albeit without work permits/visa/auth)? Does the stamp say anything about "Long Term Residency", or anything to indicate that it's more than just a 5 year residency/work permit?

doesnotcompute wrote:

agniukas wrote:instead of the LTR spouses of irish nationals can also renew their stamp 4 every 5 years. therefore, they get an equivalent of LTR - stamp 4 for 5 years, which is done at GNIB, without the need to apply through LTR section.

Can this also be done for stamp 4 EuFam, for spouses of Irish nationals who have excercised their treaty rights in another EU country?

Unnecessary. Such family members acquire the right of permanent residence following 5 years residence in the state in conformity with Directive 2004/38/EC.

A family member who has acquired the right of permanent residence is entitled to received a permanent residence card from the state.

Current practice is to issue Stamp 4 EUFam for a period of 10 years or until the expiry of the current passport. However, the EU Commission has stated that the permanent residence card should be distinguishable from the residence card and that this practice is incompatible with the Directive.

I have repeatedly advised the DoJ of this, and that the problem would be easily solved by the creation of Stamp 5 EUFam for the purpose of permanent residence cards issued under the Directive. They have repeatedly ignored me and the EU Commission.

Ben wrote:

doesnotcompute wrote:

agniukas wrote:instead of the LTR spouses of irish nationals can also renew their stamp 4 every 5 years. therefore, they get an equivalent of LTR - stamp 4 for 5 years, which is done at GNIB, without the need to apply through LTR section.

Can this also be done for stamp 4 EuFam, for spouses of Irish nationals who have excercised their treaty rights in another EU country?

Unnecessary. Such family members acquire the right of permanent residence following 5 years residence in the state in conformity with Directive 2004/38/EC.

A family member who has acquired the right of permanent residence is entitled to received a permanent residence card from the state.

Current practice is to issue Stamp 4 EUFam for a period of 10 years or until the expiry of the current passport. However, the EU Commission has stated that the permanent residence card should be distinguishable from the residence card and that this practice is incompatible with the Directive.

I have repeatedly advised the DoJ of this, and that the problem would be easily solved by the creation of Stamp 5 EUFam for the purpose of permanent residence cards issued under the Directive. They have repeatedly ignored me and the EU Commission.

Interesting. Good to know - thanks

scrudu wrote:Just wondering, if a non-EU spouse of an Irish citizen doesn't want to go the Citizenship route (e.g. when country of citizenship doesn't allow dual citizenship), what options are available to them for more longer term residency stamps than Stamp 4? From what I've read the options for holders of Stamp 4 (Spouse of Irish Citizen) are as follows:

1. Citizenship is available (for application at least) after a period of 3 years residency and 3 years marriage.
2. Long Term Residency which is normally available after 60mths residency is not available to non-EU Spouses of Irish Citizens according to http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Lo ... _Residency

   Applications for Long Term Residency cannot be accepted from persons in the categories below:
   * The applicant has permission to remain on the basis of his/her marriage to an Irish national (refer applicant to Spouse of Irish National Unit).

3. The WCATT (Without Condition as to Time) Stamp or Stamp 5 is available after 96mths or 8 years according to http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Wi ... dorsements

Is this it? So again, spouses of Irish citizens have less options than other non-EU residents. They can either apply for citizenship or wait for 8 years and apply for WCATT?

Sorry , but how is this less options than other non-EU residents

Ben wrote:

doesnotcompute wrote:

agniukas wrote:instead of the LTR spouses of irish nationals can also renew their stamp 4 every 5 years. therefore, they get an equivalent of LTR - stamp 4 for 5 years, which is done at GNIB, without the need to apply through LTR section.

Can this also be done for stamp 4 EuFam, for spouses of Irish nationals who have excercised their treaty rights in another EU country?

Unnecessary. Such family members acquire the right of permanent residence following 5 years residence in the state in conformity with Directive 2004/38/EC.

A family member who has acquired the right of permanent residence is entitled to received a permanent residence card from the state.

Current practice is to issue Stamp 4 EUFam for a period of 10 years or until the expiry of the current passport. However, the EU Commission has stated that the permanent residence card should be distinguishable from the residence card and that this practice is incompatible with the Directive.

I have repeatedly advised the DoJ of this, and that the problem would be easily solved by the creation of Stamp 5 EUFam for the purpose of permanent residence cards issued under the Directive. They have repeatedly ignored me and the EU Commission.

Would an EU4FAM card be applicable in the case of the spouse of an Irish citizen who has not lived anywhere else in the EU?

strongbow wrote:

scrudu wrote:Just wondering, if a non-EU spouse of an Irish citizen doesn't want to go the Citizenship route (e.g. when country of citizenship doesn't allow dual citizenship), what options are available to them for more longer term residency stamps than Stamp 4? From what I've read the options for holders of Stamp 4 (Spouse of Irish Citizen) are as follows:

1. Citizenship is available (for application at least) after a period of 3 years residency and 3 years marriage.
2. Long Term Residency which is normally available after 60mths residency is not available to non-EU Spouses of Irish Citizens according to http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Lo ... _Residency

   Applications for Long Term Residency cannot be accepted from persons in the categories below:
   * The applicant has permission to remain on the basis of his/her marriage to an Irish national (refer applicant to Spouse of Irish National Unit).

3. The WCATT (Without Condition as to Time) Stamp or Stamp 5 is available after 96mths or 8 years according to http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Wi ... dorsements

Is this it? So again, spouses of Irish citizens have less options than other non-EU residents. They can either apply for citizenship or wait for 8 years and apply for WCATT?

Sorry , but how is this less options than other non-EU residents

If the the LTR stamp is nothing more than a 5 year Stamp 4, then it's not, as the non-EU spouse of the Irish citizen can get a 5 year Stamp 4 as Agniukas pointed out. I thought the LTR stamp, like it's name, was a longer term permit, that in some way distinguished that its holders had "long term" residency and was separate from those on temporary permits/visas.

strongbow wrote:Would an EU4FAM card be applicable in the case of the spouse of an Irish citizen who has not lived anywhere else in the EU?

No, it's not available to such spouses.

5 years is hardly long term by any standard or definition I agree, But INIS would certainly think otherwise.

My understanding is that the ever so pending immigration bill 2010 whenever it gets enacted will provide a different form of Long Term/Permanent residency for Non-EU workers and Non-EU spouses of Irish citizens who have been resident legally in the state for 5 years (I think it may be 3 years for Irish spouse, no sure, will post d link l8r as I am tie down with something a the mo). I twas proposed to replace he existing LTR arrangement and cover spouses of Irish citizens who appear not to be covered by any such arrangement at the moment. It is expected that holders of his type of residency will have the same right as that of other Irish citizens.