Archive » United Kingdom » HSMP renewal application! Critical information!
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| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted September 20, 2003 07:23 AM Hi All, This is regarding my HSMP renewal application. I just wanted to add few critical points to all of you who are in self-employment in HSMP visa. I just received a letter from HSMP team asking me for further information on the following: 1. Although they note that I have accumulated personal savings from my past earnings and have funded my stay in the UK from it, why I have not declared any salary payments to myself, although I have earned quite a good sum of professional income. HSMP team DOES NOT CONSIDER any income earned and kept in your own company's bank account although they are earned from your eligible professional activities in the UK. Also HSMP will not consider any dividends paid to yourself. You should have declared only "salaries" and paid income tax on it... otherwise we will not consider the earnings made by your company for renewal decision. My answer is - Since I had my personal savings I never needed to declare any dividend or salaries till date... and I never realised that non payment of salaries from self-employment will lead to any to trouble for renewal. Also, there has been no HSMP guidance note or rule that said I had to declare "salaries" compulsorily. And as a 100% sharecapital holder and owner of my company I am sure that I would be the person to decide when to declare dividends or salaries to myself... but that does not seem to be so. 2. Why I did not produce any audited accounts. My reason being - Since the company has just been formed 10 months back, it is not legally bound to have performed any audited accounts yet, as per law. I am really hurt in my feelings that UK HO wants to give me unreasonable pain in continuing with my business/profession. Had I known that this was a compulsory expectation, I probably would have decided to declare salaries to my self. But there was no explicit guidance note to this effect. I provided all my bank statements proving my excellent personal funds position... in fact the funds are there to support me for another 1 year without touching my professional earnings... and also had declared in my covreing letter that I was not paying anything out of my company's earnings as I was funding my activities and stay out of my personal savings... and they overlook all that!! Anyway, its good news to me that I can now take all my earnings and leave the country for good. So Irrepective of whatever will be the decision, I am thinking of closing down my operations in the UK and getting back to my Home country where I will be able to continue my profession/business with peace of mind. Having said that, I will give my best shot in fighting out my case and give it a last chance by sending my answers on Monday. Thanks for all of your co-operation till date. The theme of my topic is - If anybody is on self-employment, ensure you have declared and paid "salaries" to yourself. Otherwise all of your professional earnings will NOT be considered by HSMP team as your economic activity at all. Take care. regards. [ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: User ] |
| Loonycat1 Member Member # 664 | Posted September 20, 2003 10:10 AM Hi User, Don't take it personally - they are just applying a generic (albeit undisclosed) guideline and I am sure your explanation to them on these points will be accepted. Just remain detatched and professional in your response and I have every confidence that you will be ok. The rationale you pose for both points seems solid so it will be tough for them to not accept. And in the unlikely event your application was refused on these points you would have clear grounds to appeal as point 1 has never been stated in any guidelines and point 2 is a function of UK tax law. This seems just another small obsticle for you to get over on the run home. Best of luck, |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted September 20, 2003 03:06 PM Hi Looneycat, Thanks for your comforting words. 65 customers, 20 software products, 9 months of brilliant consultancy activities and a total revenue close to what I had suggested last year in my initial HSMP application - if this is not considered economic activity just because I did not pay myself a salary, then I think it is only a clear defamation of my hard work, which is a real shame. I have asked my accountants to help me dissolve my company already, and I am happily packing my bags. Irrespective of whether I will receive my renewal visa or not, I am just waiting for my passports to be returned to me so that I can get back home. Take care guys. regards. [ September 21, 2003: Message edited by: User ] |
| Joseph01 Member Member # 7141 | Posted September 21, 2003 04:48 PM User, I don’t mean to raise a dumb point, but I assume you have covered all bases with your accountant over the last 10 months regarding the payment of taxes, including income tax withholding AND registration of your company for VAT and collection of VAT. I do recall somewhere in the immigration or HSMP rules that only income that is taxed (or withheld for tax) is counted. Inland Revenue is very sensitive about accumulated income without corresponding PAYE or other tax withholding, especially with small sole proprietor companies like yours. Like HSMP, the Revenue “want” to see income paid promptly as salaries because that way it can be taxed for income tax and NI. Perhaps HSMP are wanting to get reassurance that you are complying with the various tax laws. Even though your income may not be counted under their rules, you should still meet the criteria for renewal and get a favourable decision once you give them what they need, so just hang in there! Please note that if you do decide to leave the UK you can’t take “all” your earnings with you as you say in your post. You will still be liable for UK taxes! Best of luck Joseph |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted September 21, 2003 05:15 PM Please note that if you do decide to leave the UK you can’t take “all” your earnings with you as you say in your post. You will still be liable for UK taxes! Best of luck Joseph[/QB][/QUOTE] Yes, Sure! As a part of the company dissolution plan and proceedings, I will obviously work with my accountants to see what tax is due to UK govt., make those payments and only then I will leave. So worries there. Thanks for reminding me on that point. regards. |
| Joseph01 Member Member # 7141 | Posted September 21, 2003 09:08 PM User, Sorry to see you leave. I hope you change your mind. Best of luck Joseph |
| Loonycat1 Member Member # 664 | Posted September 21, 2003 11:07 PM Yeah like Joseph, I will be sorry to see you go User. But if you have decided that now is the time to go home then that is all cool - the only thing I would suggest is that deep down you make sure you are making your decisions for the right reasons. If you are ready to go home then do so and make that your primary reason (and a damn good one to me). But if you are chucking it all in ahead of schedule because of the difficulties in HSMP renewal, then that would be disappointing. You have overcome a lot of adversity to win the initial HSMP visa and start your own successful business - surely the renewal process isn't the most difficult obsticle who have had to face? Like I said if you're ready to go home then state that as your reason (but if so why apply for the extension?) But please don't suggest it is the renewal process when it perhas isn't. A big part of this board is the many people around the world who read the various posts and take decisions in their own lives based in part on the experiences of others who have gone before them. If one of the successful members of the board gives up because of renewal difficulties it doesn't bode well for others attempting to navigate the renewal process for themselves in the future. Sorry to be all 'deep and meaningful' late on a Sunday evening. I'm just conscious that we owe it to others to be as up front as possible in our thoughts and experiences. Whatever you decide to do, very best wishes in your endeavours. |
| pixi Member Member # 6282 | Posted September 22, 2003 01:31 AM User, I hope you decide to stick it out. Joseph, if memory serves me, you were up for renewal next month. I am curious to know how things are going with that since it took you some time to find a job. Sorry if you've already posted about this; I hadn't been following the board as closely as before, but I'm back now. |
| Joseph01 Member Member # 7141 | Posted September 22, 2003 03:01 PM Pixi, I'm still looking for full-time position and will probably have to file an extension application with documentation detailing my job search. Regards, Joseph |
| pixi Member Member # 6282 | Posted September 23, 2003 02:33 AM Joseph, thanks for being candid. I'll be really interested to know how the application goes for you. Knowing you, it will probably be extremely detailed and well organized, which, as we know, is very important in the eyes of the HO. I'm currently working out my plans to move over. |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted September 23, 2003 02:42 AM Hi Looneycat1 and others, Sorry for the delayed reply. Well... come on! Don't get me wrong. I was just frustrated - HSMP tried to force me to conduct a voluntary corporate audit which would have costed me hundreds of pounds, considering it was not even required under UK corporate laws. Never mind, I have handed over a wealth of information in pursuant to their request for additional information and of course I have politely denied conducting a voluntary audit unless HSMP ware ready to pick up my audit costs and of course I have backedup my denial with a legal profesional opinion on corporate laws regarding audit. Further, I have convinced that they should be defenitely happy with the quality of information I have submitted to them with my renewal application - including all original bank statments, all fund transfers from my customers, all original consultancy invoices, personal savings statements, company incorporation document, a detailed certificate from my accountants consolidating my corporate revenues till date, VAT documents and so on. I have sent out today the additional documents as requested, and am waiting to see what happens next. I am 100% sure - I have a very strong case of renwal and I will get it! I was just annoyed with the additional info request which would have ended me up with unreasonable costs which I am not as such obliged to spend under the corporate laws of UK and hence I felt the undue hardship, which broke my patience and tolerance for a moment. That's all. Anyway I have convinced my point of view and have submitted all the other info I could. So there is nothing nothing to worry. I am a strong man. So don't worry guys! But certainly I am obliged to thank you for your timely concern and advices. It defenitely helped. I am going to win this race. Will keep you all updated as and when I hear anything from HSMP. Well... as for going back home, I am not going to disappoint myself... so I will be defenitely taking a holiday break for a short while. But mind you - I will be back to carry on my chores under HSMP! regards. [ September 23, 2003: Message edited by: User ] |
| Loonycat1 Member Member # 664 | Posted September 23, 2003 10:27 PM Well done User - that's more like it! Best of luck, |
| Elisa Member Member # 2487 | Posted September 23, 2003 10:57 PM I can totally understand how frustrated you must have been and your initial reaction would have been mine as well in the same situation. When the going gets tough, the tough get going I always say...glad to see you not give up! Take a break, go visit some friends and party..you deserve it! |
| Joseph01 Member Member # 7141 | Posted October 01, 2003 11:09 AM Hi User, How is it going? Still waiting for a decision on your HSMP renewal application?? Best regards and good luck, |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted October 01, 2003 11:47 AM Yes! Still waiting for a decision. Well... its just been 7 weeks... you see! ;-) regards. |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted October 03, 2003 04:31 PM Hi All, I spoke to HSMP team today and I have been told that my application could take 5-6 weeks more to be decided on. That makes the total processing time to around 12 weeks!!! Maybe its just my case. Don't be alarmed. I guess they are buying time for some wierd reason - I don't know for what! If the delay in processing goes beyond December, I stand to gain because I have my ILR eligibility on the 16th of December (when I complete continuous 3 years and 11 months - WP + HSMP in the UK). regards. |
| Kayalami Member Member # 5984 | Posted October 03, 2003 05:14 PM Maybe they figure lets just wait till then and grant ILR ..hope you have a sense humour User as I am just jesting. Your patience is truly amazing - I would suggest writing to the business unit manager and stressing that the HSMP renewal has been unexpectedly lengthy and that you would appreciate a written response of how much longer it will take and if there is anything in particular holding it up..I suspect they have refered the taxation issues in your renewal to their legal/ taxation team. Of course be polite but factual. Regards and best wishes. [ October 03, 2003: Message edited by: Kayalami ] -------------------- ---audi alteram partem--- |
| Joseph01 Member Member # 7141 | Posted October 03, 2003 09:26 PM User, Do you feel that your case is getting special scrutiny or does every case already being reviewed take that long? If the latter is the case, the backlog could get huge! I have a similar situation as yours regarding ILR. I understand that if you withdraw the application you get 28 days Variation of Leave Order (VOLO) stamped on your passport counting from the date of withdrawal. A question for Kayalami or others: Is that additional leave the same as a short term extension of your HSMP? In other words, assume the following: HSMP LTR expires Sept 1 Suppose there is still no decision after 3 months, on Nov 25. Since you filed before the visa expired, you are covered under VOLO and can stay and work. Because you still have no decision and you are approaching eligibility for ILR, you notify HSMP that you want to withdraw on December 1. Under VOLO, they should return your passport back with LTR through December 28. Is that correct? Is the net effect of this an extension of your HSMP visa from September 1 to December 28, or is it something less than that? If you have that extension till December 28, does that really mean you can go on December 16 and apply for ILR? Put another way, when you withdraw the application, do they put something in your record that counts against a quick ILR decision? Of course, in your case, you have to consider whether the same factor that is delaying an HSMP decision might also delay an ILR decision, which you would think has more stringent criteria. In other words, would the ILR Team expect a clean bill of health from the HSMP Team, in order to give ILR? Just some thoughts for the weekend… Regards, Joseph |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted October 03, 2003 10:03 PM Well... that would be some thoughts for a month or two I guess... in my case... [ October 03, 2003: Message edited by: User ] |
| Joseph01 Member Member # 7141 | Posted October 04, 2003 11:19 AM User, Yes, and that time will fly very quickly. It's always good to have a backup plan, especially when the decision keeps delaying past the predicted date... Joseph |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted October 04, 2003 02:28 PM Hi Joseph, Yup! You are right! If they give a NO renewal decision - I will need a backup plan becuase those statutory 28 days to leave UK - all of a sudden - will be a very small time to actually dissolve the company, pay of any govt. dues, settle debts, apologise to existing customers for a break in service, and some legal steps to settle the breakage of my continued contracts in the UK I have signed off with my customers. That's the kind of backup plan I am working on now. I have no intentions of appealing to any negative decision (if any). Hoping to see a positive decision - but then, these things are not in our control... so will just have to go with the flow. As you said rightly, even if I applied for ILR in december, I will have to go through even more stringent process - which may take months together (considering HSMP proces is taking me 2-3 months currently). So appealing to any decisions will just be waste of time and more importantly waste of money. Lets just wait and see what is in store for me. regards. [ October 04, 2003: Message edited by: User ] |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted October 08, 2003 04:53 PM Hi All, I spoke to HSMP team today and I was told that the HSMP team or the IND did not have any knowledge on Inland revenue laws or corporate laws applicable to Self-employment/Companies and hence had requested comfirmation from Inland revenue and Companies House and other related authorities on the answers I had given in my reply to their "further information questions". I explained to them that my case had been pending with them for 2 months now and I am in hardship because all of my original documents (right from company incorporation docs. to bank statements, customer contract agreements) were with the HSMP team and I am requiring some of these docs for my business use. They said since they have referred this to other governmental agencies, it can take many months before they can get a formal reply to their questions and hence suggested to me that I may have to wait for several months before I hear anything on my decision. They suggested that if I could not wait, I am free to take back my application and leave UK. That's the update for you all. Will keep you posted of any developments. Note : I am aware many HSMP renewal applicants are reading my posts. My humble request to them is - please do not be alarmed with the contents of my posts and do not get discouraged. It could be just that these nightmare looking things are happening in just my case. Each one's case is quite different and I would request you all to please just read it as - "developments in my case". I am updating my posts because many are sincierly watching the development in my case and hence I am updating my posts regularly, to respect their interest in my case. Hence my apologies if my posts are scaring or freaking-out the potential HSMP renewal candidates. Please kindly read it as - "developments in my case only". regards. [ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: User ] |
| User Member Member # 3726 | Posted October 08, 2003 05:41 PM Hi, I just bagged another new customer today ( I had the confirmation just few minutes back) - my customer's customer became mine too I am just SO happy that I wanted to share this news with you all. regards. |
| oracle Member Member # 7151 | Posted October 08, 2003 05:59 PM congratulations user, keep it up. and best of luck !!! Regards, |
| Loonycat1 Member Member # 664 | Posted October 08, 2003 08:58 PM User, Have to say I'd be pretty unhappy with that response from WPUK if it was me. In effect they said they don't have the knowledge to assess your application and are applying generic policies that clearly do not apply to a case that should have been planned for in their renewal criteria. surely they could have guessed someone would eventually apply for renewal who had started their own business and planned to ask the appropriate question and have the appropriate answers well before now. Sadly you are being stuffed around as the test bed that will benefit all future applicants but makes your life a total uncertainty in the meantime. Seems pretty poor form for a department that until now had been doing pretty well. I would be considering legal advice at this point but appreciate that is extra cost for you and you would have to withdraw your application and re-apply if you were to go through a lawyer. But it might be worth paying a few bucks to get advice on how you could advance your application from here. Alternatively if you are comfortable to continue your business for the next however many months while they sort out what they are doing then that may well just be the best option. Regardless, keep plugging away and I am sure you will make it happen eventually. And I appreciate the note on the end of your posts. Good luck, |
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