Archive » United Kingdom » Economic activity in different fields
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| jef Junior Member Member # 7632 | Posted March 08, 2004 02:18 PM dear Friends, Have you any idea on this? Is it acceptable if someone work in a different field than his own field to obtain the extension at the end of the 12 months periods as far as the economic activity is concerned, Tks Jef |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 08, 2004 02:39 PM NO,
You cant forexample say that you are a programmer and base your renewal on having been a Taxi driver -------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
| zamzam Junior Member Member # 7701 | Posted March 08, 2004 05:30 PM Chess! u r not right.if you study hsmp guide line,they say:- "u can change your work at any time in uk,not nust that only work with their related field,but preferably that work in your own field. |
| Kayalami Member Member # 5984 | Posted March 08, 2004 06:07 PM zamzam, where in the guidelines does it say this - para/number? -------------------- ---audi alteram partem--- |
| zamzam Junior Member Member # 7701 | Posted March 09, 2004 03:44 PM Dear Kayalami! thank you so much for 1st & nice meeting.u can check this on revised programme 31st oct 2003 guide book,page 17,question 26.1 . "you can undertake any work,for example it could be as an employee,a contract worker or on a sel-employed basis or combination of these". -------------------- Always Tell Truth |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 09, 2004 03:58 PM ZamZam, You need to understand the 'ethos' of HSMP. Surely, if you could do any sorts of jobs, then why would they require you to provide details regarding your qalifications, earning power, professional status etc.
Get your HSMP and try renewing it based on having been a 'janitor', and see if it works
-------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
| kishorebhosale Member Member # 7445 | Posted March 09, 2004 04:04 PM If you have you filled an HSMP form you may have come across this question. PART TWO And you are expected to undertake any job/buss. with this the you mentiond here. To you question above it is in the context of this section. If You have filled Taxi Driver as your job and IF YOU GOT YOUR HSMP APPROVED, then you can drive a bus as well, But u r not expected to code in JAVA and vice versa. |
| Dip Member Member # 4428 | Posted March 09, 2004 04:06 PM quote: ZAMZAM, Doesnt say work in a different field. All it means is that, for e.g. a Computer engineer could work as an employee, contract worker or on a self-employed basis or a combination. He certainly cannot take up a unrelated job. I'd be surprised if he gets an extension. Regards |
| zamzam Junior Member Member # 7701 | Posted March 09, 2004 04:14 PM Dear Chess! you are right.but you think that if a doctor comes in uk,or any engineer,try to work with their field but not found,what you think,he will not work any kind of work(other then their profession). After 1st year,the home office check your economical activity,not direct to your profession but on your present activity,either directly related or not relatd to your profession. what you think,that if an accountant not found any work in 1st year with comperetively to a doctor ,who not found a job.but working in a factory as a machinist.what you think that which person will allow to work the next year. Please Kayalami,you given your valuable comments,As i write early that they allow any kind of work,but preferably with your work. -------------------- Always Tell Truth |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 09, 2004 04:23 PM Zam, I think you ought to send an e-mail to the HSMP team in Sheffield and raise this issue. Please, keep us updated!!! -------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
| kishorebhosale Member Member # 7445 | Posted March 09, 2004 04:28 PM ZAMZAM WROTE what you think,that if an accountant not found any work in 1st year with comperetively to a doctor ,who not found a job.but working in a factory as a machinist.what you think that which person will allow to work the next year. None of them would be allowed to work. |
| Kayalami Member Member # 5984 | Posted March 09, 2004 05:03 PM Zamzam, Thank you for highlighting this important subject. You need to consider the HSMP guidance para/Q in context of the overall aim/scope of the HSMP programme. For the benefit of the board para/Q 26.1 states:
quote: The second part of the answer is key i.e. a level appropriate to your skills. These skills are in turn determined by your HSMP designated occupation. To get a renewal your economic activity must be in your HSMP designated occupation/field. Most occupations will have a fairly wide range e.g. a programmer can cover various languages be it Java, C++, Perl etc. Employment in an occupation/ field outside that you specified your skills set to be in is not acceptable even if you deem it high skilled e.g. a doctor who ends up doing accountancy. I concur with kish on the no renewal chances for low skills activities though machinists (classed as a skilled trade) are in short supply in the UK. HSMP holders in a general management/sales as opposed to those in subject specific careers/fields e.g medicine have the easiest scope for renewal because their skills transcend multiple industries/sectors. Hope that helps. [ March 09, 2004: Message edited by: Kayalami ] -------------------- ---audi alteram partem--- |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 09, 2004 05:14 PM Kaya, It is stated that for HSMP renewal - your economic activity must be in your designated profession!, but how will HSMP find out. Forexample, if I work for Chess & Partners or Chess Consulting Services...it is not quite that obvious what work 'we' do. during HSMP renewal, you could just submit Pay-slips, which show the name of the person and the company..so its not that obvious to work out whether its a 'sales' company, assett management company or consulting engineers, unless ofcourse they contact the inland revenue!!!, but given the backlogs - many may pass through the apparent 'loop holes' -------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
| Kayalami Member Member # 5984 | Posted March 09, 2004 05:33 PM If you review the FLR HSM form you will note that the HSMP Team require evidence of economic activity in additon to that of funds as proof of your ability to maintain and accomodate without recourse to public funds. The pay slips while being proof that you have an income do not necessarily reflect where such was derived. You need to submit sales contracts/ employment contracts/ interview letters/ business plans/ business accounts etc. HSMP Team and HO as a whole have seen many attempts of passing off savings/ funds as money from your economic activity - you may have got a 'loan' from a friend . Scrutiny levels are highest for self employed applicants and those without jobs. -------------------- ---audi alteram partem--- |
| JGP Junior Member Member # 7704 | Posted March 10, 2004 12:20 AM The latest Law and policy section of the IND site has the following to say, it's interesting to note however that under the previous scheme the policy specifically spoke to work being in the stated field, with an allowance for deviations with adequate explanation, the new scheme's policy however is not that specific. http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=3201 in the case of an applicant who has leave under paragraph 135B, has already taken during his period of leave all reasonable steps to become lawfully economically active in the United Kingdom in employment, self-employment or a combination of both; and OLD SCHEME http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/default.asp?PageId=2769 |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 10, 2004 09:47 AM Kaya/JGP, Thanx for your input in this - it looked pretty obvious to me, but it is becoming tricky. First of all, 'contracts of employment' do not nrcessarily specify what the company does, therefore, it is not possible to determine the 'types of jobs' the employee does apart from Job Title.
2). To demonstrate sufficient funds - Bank Statements 3). To prove 'field' of work - Company Brochure (assuming one is not in self-employment) How about that??? [ March 10, 2004: Message edited by: Chess ] -------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
| Kayalami Member Member # 5984 | Posted March 10, 2004 11:14 AM Chess, 1. Who said anything about the contract having to refer to your employers field? Your contract of employment details what you do and from this the pre-requisite skills to do such making a comparison with the HSMP designated profession easy. HSMP Team are actually an offshoot/subgroup of Work Permits Team UK and have been processing employment related applications for decades. They know what fits in to what industry because they have sector specific panels. Note that your original HSMP application is reviewed as part of the renewal process to matchup your anticipated profession against your activity in yr 1. 2. Again as I said before this only demonstrates you have an income - it does not say where you got it from. 3. Correct. 4. This only prooves what the company does not what you do e.g. I am a tube driver and present a London Underground brochure. If my HSMP profession was mechanical/structural engineer then I am not in my designated profession/field. Just because LU has a maintenance function as shown on brochure doesn't cover me. Ultimately getting HSMP renewal is based on providing enough evidence to satisfy the caseworker of your economic activity in a designated field or failing that concrete attempts of doing such. The burden of proof is always on you not the HSMP Team. My approach would be to handle a renewal as a first application and submit the same level and detail of documentation at renewal as then. However as with all things in life its your call and if you are of the opinion that the list you present is enough for successful renewal then do go ahead with it. I wish you luck.
Your 1st link is to the rules and your 2nd link is to the instructions (IDI's) accompanying the rules not to 'old/previous rules'. It is not therefore 'easier' to get renewal now than before. The IDI's remain the same and complement the rules as before - economic activity must be in a designated field. -------------------- ---audi alteram partem--- |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 10, 2004 11:52 AM Kaya, Thanx for your thoughts!! - based on what you have said, it appears that one has to send as much information as possible------- Although I have always been advised not to volunteer information unless it has been asked for and/or compliments your case.
Last but not least - the covering letter would be on the company letter head (is this allowed?) Now, Kaya - dont tell me I have missed out something PS. I have just been reading previous posts on this subject around Oct/Nov 2003, and it appears things are a bit tricky regarding renewal if one is unemployed/self employed. I can imagine this subject will kick in again starting in the Summer/Autumn, when 'more pundits' start preparing for renewals
[ March 10, 2004: Message edited by: Chess ] -------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
| zamzam Junior Member Member # 7701 | Posted March 10, 2004 02:58 PM Dear Kaya,Chess,JGP,Dip& CHIRSON! Lots of thanks for all of you,for this important discussion.i am out of uk,but most of my time spend in uk. This is my family fifth generation,those are settled in uk,so i think that my obsevation about uk govt & people is so high.what you think that if an outsider ,who has their education from uk,got the high level post,as the english?My answer is no.i have seen many cases there about this type.Most of my relative got their educational results more then higher as local person,but they not got the so high level job,and their freinds,those results was so good,they are working upper then. This is my observation.in jan home minister says that about thousands,only one person was economically inactive,what you think ,All those were working with their own profession?i think that most of those working not with their related fields. One point about economically active,that what you think about the job criteria in uk?most of outsider doctors are failed in uk registration process,but what you think that any of person entering hsmp scheme is returned back to their home country,while this is third year of this?if i am true,them most of people not working with their field,but permission to renwew of hsmp. As my dear chess,mention that no criteria to directly contact to employers,or not justification to job level,so what we think? If any person is working under his level,but you know that tax system of uk is so stict,this means that he was giving tax from last year or twelve month,and when you gave the tax,you have also benifits & rights in your favour.what you think that,this is better that do the work in low level,Got money for your self as well as for govt in tax matter,OR still wait for your skilled job,taken money for your home country for all expences?which option is suitable for the uk govt. This discussion was in this matter,that 1st of all,your related job is sufficient for all of the people,but if they not found(low level job found easily)then try for any job.because this is good for people & govt also. I I think ,you willbe agree with my point of view.good luck for all. -------------------- Always Tell Truth |
| Kayalami Member Member # 5984 | Posted March 10, 2004 04:00 PM Chess, Revised list should IMHO see you go through - best of luck. -------------------- ---audi alteram partem--- |
| Chess Member Member # 7233 | Posted March 10, 2004 04:18 PM Thanks, My renewal is not due yet, just checking to make sure all documents will be in place! - renewal is due later this year. In the meantime, I am off to kick some butt at the Highways Agency!! -------------------- .........Nkosi sikelele Africa |
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