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SVik Junior Member Member # 3546	Posted December 02, 2002 05:16 PM Hello everybody, Could anybody told me is it possible for Germany green card holdet get PR after 5 years of working. Thanks in advance. SVik
Valentine Junior Member Member # 1594	Posted December 03, 2002 09:38 AM Hello SVik, In accordance with the new German Immigration Law, which is supposed to enter into force as of 01/01/2003, any foreign person, who has legally lived in Germany and paid contributions to a German social security funds or to private pension funds for a period of at least 60 months (5 years), may be eligible for granting so-called settlement permit, which is permanent residence authorization. Thus, CG-Holder will also have the legal rights for getting such a permit. This does not rule out, however, that authorities will want to test your German language abilities and will check your integration into the German life, culture and society. But, it seems that all those tests and probes will look mainly like just formalities, since the legal basis for granting settlement permit will clearly exist. Of course, all I have said here is valid only in case, when the new Immigration Law will come into effect, and nothing unexpected will happen in those left days before starting of the next year. The main point is, the New Immigration Act does not distinguish between GC-Holder and a foreigner with normal work permit, therefore the limitation of stay in Germany for a GC-Holder up to 5 years will cease to exist. By the way, according to the new law, separate work and residence permits will also stop to exist, instead there will be introduced a combined residence/work authorization, which will enable residence permit holder to pursue economic activities as well. That is all I know, Best regards.
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 03, 2002 10:54 AM Please, be my Valentine :-) No Val, just some questions regarding what you've written (I'm a GC Holder too) : "Thus, CG-Holder will also have the legal rights for getting such a permit", but as many GC Holders were thinking, this will not come straight at January 1st, but after 5 years, rights ? "The main point is, the New Immigration Act does not distinguish between GC-Holder and a foreigner with normal work permit, therefore the limitation of stay in Germany for a GC-Holder up to 5 years will cease to exist", do you mean by that that a GC Holder, after haing lived 5 years will not be asked to leave the country ? Taking in account that being in the Country doesn't mean necessary that you've worked 60 months, let's say that at the expiration of your 5 years, you've worked only 54 months and not 60, being unemployed for 6 months, not what ? "there will be introduced a combined residence/work authorization", meaning : you work or you go out ? D.
Valentine Junior Member Member # 1594	Posted December 03, 2002 12:49 PM Hello NoBody, First of all, I am a man, so your comment "Please, be my Valentine :-)" seems to be a nonsense. Search in another place. Regarding your questions: CG-Holder will not get settlement permit (SP) immediately with entering the new Immigration Act into force. But, that Act gives GC-Holders the legal basis for applying for a SP after having paid taxes and contributions for at least 60 months. That means, A GC-Holder, that completed legally his 60 months stay in Germany and paid 60 months contributions to pensions funds, will not have to leave Germany after that period, and that is the main difference with the original GC regulations. Period 60 months does not mean, that you have to work all that time. When person gets unemployed and receives unemployment payments from Arbeitsamt, he/she also pays taxes and other contributions, therefore period of unemployment counts toward the requirement of 60 months. It is another question, that if you are employed when applying for SP, then your chances of being approved are much higher, as you can demonstrate to authorities, that you are able to earn money and to sustain yourself, so you are not reliant on some kind of social help. Social help, however, does not include, in this context, unemployment payments. Combined residence/work permit means, as I understand, permission to stay in Germany and to work, but there is no obligation to work. That kind of permits will be issued as from 01/01/2003. So person, entitled with that permit, will not have anymore to go to Arbeitsamt to ask for a work permit, but will be entitled to reside and to work in Germany with the same, one single permit. I am not a lawyer. All that information I got from my German lawyer, which I hired for other reasons. That is all I know, Best regards.
SVik Junior Member Member # 3546	Posted December 03, 2002 01:54 PM Thanks a lot Valentine. I wish you all the best. Regards, SVik
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 03, 2002 03:20 PM I raise a very nice question, suppose green card holders need to pay 60 months tax then they will be granted PR, then (e.g) if one person pays 500 Euro Tax can he get the PR status while paying 500*60=30,000 euro because it would also be better for gov that they'll get money suddenly not in 5 years. I am ready to pay if it is [ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Kumar Singh ]
lastman Member Member # 2776	Posted December 03, 2002 03:51 PM I am thinking of changing my name to an Indian sounding name. Then Germany will offer me a job.
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 04, 2002 10:19 AM Hi Valentine, sorry for the first comment but it was just some kinda joke regarding your name, fear not, I'm married and twice-father to be and happy in that. I'm still going on with some of your words : "Period 60 months does not mean, that you have to work all that time. When person gets unemployed and receives unemployment payments from Arbeitsamt, he/she also pays taxes and other contributions, therefore period of unemployment counts toward the requirement of 60 months", ok, but to get some money from the Arbeitsamt, I think you should have worked first at least 12 months, but in my case (that's why my questions are precised), I've worked for my former company from October 2000 to March 2001, got fired and started a new job (my actual position) since October 2001, so if I stay in the company til the end of my 5 years, I won't have paid the taxes for 60 months but 54 as I've received no money from the Arbeitsamt at the time of my unemployment, saying paid no taxes from that. So what comes up with the SP possibility ?
Valentine Junior Member Member # 1594	Posted December 04, 2002 10:55 AM Hi NoBody, Now I understand your question. Well, as I have said in my previous posts, in order to be eligible to gain SP, you need to have your contributions paid for at least 60 months. But even then there is no automatic SP authorization: the authorities might want you to pass through some tests and checks, although they can be just a formality. Regarding your situation: as I understand, there was a break in your taxes and contributions payments. Again, I am not an immigration lawyer, but I suppose you will need to wait additional 6 months, until you will have you taxes and contributions paid for a period of 60 months. I did not consult my lawyer with that kind of question, as I am still employed and have right for unemployment payments from Arbeitsamt. The following is Section 9 of the new Immmigration Act, which deals with the settlement permit: Section 9 Settlement permit (1) The settlement permit is an unlimited residence title. It entitles the holder to pursue an economic activity, is not subject to any time limits or geographic restrictions and must not incorporate any subsidiary provisions. (2) A foreigner shall be granted the settlement permit provided that 1. he or she has held a residence permit for five years, 2. his or her livelihood is secure, 3. he or she has paid compulsory or voluntary contributions into the statutory pension scheme for at least 60 months or furnishes evidence of an entitlement to comparable benefits from an insurance or pension scheme or from an insurance company; time off for the purposes of child care or nursing at home shall be duly taken into account, 4. he or she has not been sentenced to a term of youth custody or a prison term of at least six months or a fine of at least 180 daily rates due to an intentionally committed offence, 5. he or she is permitted to be in employment, insofar as he or she is in employment, 6. he or she is in possession of the other permits which are required for the purpose of the permanent pursuit of his or her economic activity, 7. he or she has an adequate knowledge of the German language, 8. he or she possesses a basic knowledge of the legal and social system and the way of life in the Federal territory and 9. he or she possesses sufficient living space for himself or herself and the members of his or her family forming part of his or her household. The requirements of sentence 1, nos. 7 and 8 shall be deemed to be fulfilled if an integration course has been successfully completed. These requirements shall be waived if the foreigner is unable to fulfil them on account of a physical, mental or psychological illness or handicap. The requirements of sentence 1, nos. 7 and 8 may also be waived in order to avoid hardship. The requirements of sentence 1, nos. 2 and 3 shall also be waived if the foreigner is unable to fulfil them due to the grounds stated in sentence 3. (3) In the case of cohabiting spouses, it shall suffice if the requirements in accordance with sentence 2, nos. 3, 5 and 6 are fulfilled by one spouse. The requirement in accordance with paragraph 2, no. 3 shall be waived, if the foreigner is undergoing education or training which leads to a recognised academic or vocational qualification. Sentence 1 shall apply mutatis mutandis in the cases covered by Section 26 (4). (4) In the case of convicted foreigners, the period specified in paragraph 2, no. 4 shall begin on release from imprisonment. The following periods shall be taken into account with regard to the periods of possession of a residence permit which are necessary in order to qualify for issuance of a settlement permit: 1. The duration of former possession of a residence permit or settlement permit, if the foreigner was in possession of a settlement permit at the time of leaving the Federal territory, minus the duration of intermediate stays outside of the Federal territory which led to expiry of the settlement permit; a maximum of four years shall be taken into account. 2. A maximum of six months for each stay outside of the Federal territory which has not led to expiry of the residence permit. So, you can read it and make your own conclusions. Best regards.
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 04, 2002 12:41 PM Thanks Valentine, I think I will try to deal with that when needed, to get another 6 months after, I would have to ask for at least a one year permit down here but, who knows what can come in the meantime ? Regards, D.
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 05, 2002 01:37 PM I want to ask one serious question. Tell me if the period of 60 months we have to pay, then can we pay lumsum amount to get PR coz if there is just this law to pay tax of 60months..
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 05, 2002 03:34 PM Would anybody tell about the above question.
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 06, 2002 09:56 AM Can you better explain yourself ? Your question is not really that clear. D.
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 07, 2002 04:02 AM I mean to say that e.g if person is working from the last two years and he pays tax 500-euro per month.its mean at the end of five years(60 months)he'll pay 30,000 euro ?Yes ? Suppose at the end of second year or end of first year he says ok i pay the rest of tax as a lumsum amount.I mean if its a metter of just tax payment of 60 month amount then one can pay not after 60 month he can deposit his money in a form of tax for the rest of months by which he did not paid tax .By this way can any body get PR suddenly ??? I think you understand ?simply is if you pay per month tax amount 500 then you'll get PR after 5 years and suppose i pay all the tax amount in my first month 30,000 and can i get soon PR.? Now you got point ????I mean by law can it be possible.???
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 08, 2002 01:35 PM You really think smart, but I think that this kinda question can only be answer by a lawyer, but it's worth the try, for real. I'm going on vacation but be sure that when I'll return, I'll do my best to get this question to a lawyer, but may be Valentine could try to ask it for us to his lawyer. Could you help Valentine ? D.
Valentine Junior Member Member # 1594	Posted December 09, 2002 10:05 AM Dear all, I understand your question. I suppose, it is not enough to pay in one payment (in lump sum) all the taxes one is supposed to pay in order to get Settlement Permit. Read the following: (2) A foreigner shall be granted the settlement permit provided that 1. he or she has held a residence permit for five years... It is what is written in the New Immigration Act, Section 9. Therefore, besides of having your contributions paid for a period of at least 60 months, you have to be in possession of a residence permit for 5 years. Only after 5 years of legal residence in Germany you can get Settlement Permit, provided all other requirements are fulfilled as well. Otherwise, one could get a loan in the bank, pay immediately all pension and other contributions and get Settlement Permit. In short, I suppose it is unreal to pay in lump sum all taxes and contributions and to get Settlement Permit. Best regards.
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 09, 2002 10:32 AM Many thanks for your answer, Its true it seems unreal but some times there are conditions of law in the wirlpool of different words,by which a lawer can get advantage so that is why i asked may be any way....Any how thanks again if further more information then tell us again.
Valentine Junior Member Member # 1594	Posted December 09, 2002 01:53 PM Dear Kumar, I did not consult a lawyer in regard to your question. It is only my feeling, but it seems we need to live in Germany 5 years prior filing the application for a Settlement Permit. Best regards and happy New Year.
Bobblewait Member Member # 6527	Posted December 20, 2002 10:26 PM You can't buy your way in (directly) into most countries, only indirectly. That keeps locals happy while it lets in much needed foreign skilled/rich people. 5 years needed.
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 27, 2002 09:49 AM Back to Kumar's question : if I need to prove a 5 years residence and that I've not worked during 60 months but was in Germany and lived there the whole 60 months, what if I pay the amount of the taxes that I'Ve not paid, saying for 6 months all in one to fill the hole ?
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 27, 2002 03:18 PM It may be not possible because the question is how you lived here in germany if you have no job ? and if you lived without job then you are living not legal
NoBody Member Member # 4822	Posted December 27, 2002 03:53 PM Let's say that the owner of the appartment I'm living in is a friend, or that I live with a friend and that he is feeding me, what illegal thing have I done so far ? And we could say that during this break, I was searching for a new job... So my question is still on. D.
Marcis Member Member # 4	Posted December 27, 2002 04:38 PM Hi, The New Immigration Act was banned by the German Constitutional Court by decision of 23 December, 2002. More info on this to be published on this website soon. With regard to settlement permits, this means that provisionally 8 years residence will still be required prior to making an application. And to NoBody: no, I do not think the authorities would be satisfied if you would not have continuously worked during this time. Regards, -------------------- Marcis Gobins, Consultant Workpermit.com
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 27, 2002 07:54 PM Very sad if this law is going to make by the govt. Would it be possible if one employee have work contract 5 years and almost 6 months then possiblity of PR ..?pls answer...
Kumar Singh Member Member # 5561	Posted December 29, 2002 03:02 AM Dear Professionals, What is your view would the law for IT professionals turn towards PR after 5 years or its just Green Garden.Because 99% want to make their life planning about their future, their childs.Pls send detail information if anybody knows about the new law and about PR.Because if after 8 year PR then its better to go back rather to wait and if the law is going then what are the conditions. Can any body tell that 8 year must or 5 years must to live and work for PR ?????????????????