Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

PASS · Post by **PASS** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:26 pm

Here is the link for OCI registration.

http://ociindia.nic.in/ociindia/OnlineO ... ationG.jsp

Anyone applying for OCI has to reveal the details about when he acquired the current nationality with issue date. In this case, he/she travelled with Indian passport that will have entry/exit stamp (as British informed). These two (BC and invalid indian passport) documents are sufficient for Indian agency to know the details. So there is no escape.

Dawie: The discussion about Indian agency's role (taking away the Citizenship right of Ex-Indian) has no value. None of the rights are taken away, there is an appropriate channel available to do so (OCI).

Here the qn. is, proper channel is not followed, the impact is unkown for OCI application or obtaining any indian visa. British has made his suggestion to seek legal advice (seems to be the best option in this case)

TintinHerge · Post by **TintinHerge** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:46 pm

How does one go about making a Demand Draft for $275 in London ? Does the Indian Embassy accept Cash or Cards ?

Thanks in Advance
Tintin

silver_fox · Post by **silver_fox** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:30 pm

Hi,
Please can somebody tell me that in order to apply for the OCI:
- Do I have to photocopy all the pages of my cancelled Indian Passport (as suggested by somebody earlier in this thread).
- Do the photos have to be exact 35x35mm and in non-white background.(How many photos)
- Can I apply by post to the HCI London?
- I enquired HCI, Birmingham and they said that if I apply in London the application would take one month and in Birmingham it would take 3 months. Is this true? Has anybody got any experience of applying in Birmingham?

Thanks for your help in advance

raikal · Post by **raikal** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:46 am

- First few pages of photocopy showing the "CANCELLED" stamp should be fine. You do not need all pages
- Yes, preferably 35 X 35 but if you see the recent guidelines from mha site they say minimum of 35 X 35. Now a days they are accepting photos if you follow the guidelines given in mha site. The guidelines are more or less similar to british passport
- Yes, you can apply by POST
- If by post, send it to London office, they usually done in 3-4 weeks.
In the past they used to courier the documents, now they are scanning and sending the docs to India, hence the speed in approving the application

Friend · Post by **Friend** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:35 pm

suza321 wrote:Folks

Was completely unaware of this forum until friend of mine suggested. I am in process
of applying for OCI but I have a prob.I never knew that u need to get Indian Passport cancelled after getting the B citizenship.unfortunatetly I travelled once on this.

What do I do now?? I will get it cancelled ASAP but will this create a prob
for getting my OCI.Again i have a offer from good company back home I wish to take it and join by feb.

Looking at my overall situation how do u all suggest me to go about it.
Friend said easier option is to get work visa and apply for OCI form India.
How long does it take to get a work visa and what are documents to submit it.
searched all threads but no valid answer on the same this type of situtaion..

even if i apply for OCI i would need to collect it in person ..so if i am back home then will they post it back home? again i should get it in one months time...what if it gets rejected

pl help me .

su

I am in a similar situation having travelled on the Indian passport after getting British nationality. Silly me! Any one with similar experience and applied for OCI?

Thanks

British · Post by **British** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:51 pm

Hi Friend,

I suggest you do not travel any more to India from now on until you have seen an Indian criminal lawyer and get some advise as to how to proceed from now on.

I have doubts you will be able to get any OCI or PIO to India on your own (unless you hide the criminal offense, which i won't advice you to do!)

Getting a tourist visa is even more trouble, with such a criminal (imprisonable) offense under Indian immigration law.

Talk to your lawyer ASAP, and see if you can get a PIO or OCI via your Indian parents or Indian spouse!!!!! as a possibility!!!!!

You will nee to act fast so at least you can prove to teh Indian govt. that you acted on sorting out your offense the moment you came to know about it. I am not sure they will take this fact in to account for any decisions, but at least it will be worth a try, to sort yourself out of any serious issues.

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:06 pm

Oh please, why are you all being so melodramatic? Unless you tell them, the Indian government won't know that you used your Indian passport after you got British citizenship.

So stop worrying and just go apply for your OCI or PIO.

British, you are a drama queen and scaremonger.

Friend · Post by **Friend** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:43 pm

Dawie wrote:Oh please, why are you all being so melodramatic? Unless you tell them, the Indian government won't know that you used your Indian passport after you got British citizenship.

So stop worrying and just go apply for your OCI or PIO.

British, you are a drama queen and scaremonger.

Hi Dawie,

Thankyou for being understanding. I didn't intentionally want to commit fraud and I am sure there there are a few people like me. If only some one who has got OCI in these circumstance, comes forward and reassures .
The HCI also seems to be aware of this and has mentioned it in their website(HCI Birmingham).
Part of the reason this happened is because of the hype of 'Dual citizenship', which it isn't

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:09 pm

It is not a question of melodrama. It's simply against the rules and illegal.
Now you may think that it is worth taking the chance because you'll not get caught. However, if you have any insight into the Indian civil and security services, most people would rightly advise anyone not to be foolish enough to try to use an invalid Indian passport to enter India when the alternative is simply spending an hour or two getting a visa and saving you all sorts of hassle. All it takes is a single incident somewhere involving a british national of Indian origin for this to come under increased scrutiny. It's simply not worth it.

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:10 am

Best thing to do, email the OCI attache or passport attache. Ask them, explain your problem about travelling to India on the Indian passport, let them contact you. They are friendly and approachable. Let us all hear the result.

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:15 am

Dawie wrote:Oh please, why are you all being so melodramatic? Unless you tell them, the Indian government won't know that you used your Indian passport after you got British citizenship.

So stop worrying and just go apply for your OCI or PIO.

British, you are a drama queen and scaremonger.

Once you apply for OCI, it asks when you acquired British Nationality. So, they will find out. But, I doubt anything major will happen. Just follow the advice I gave above.

I am naturalised now. I am thinking about getting Right of Abode.

British · Post by **British** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:34 am

Hi Mahil_2000,

You said this:

I am naturalised now. I am thinking about getting Right of Abode instead of applying for British Passport.

I don't know your nationality, so may be it is possible for you, but for an Indian national, once he naturalises, he is a British citizen.

Applying for a British passport by him is just a technicality! - of getting a travel document.

So, in effect, if an Indian citizen has naturalised as British, he has voluntarily relinquished (i am not sure if that's thw correct legal term though

) his Indian nationality. All this because India does not allow dual nationality as yet!

That only goes to say that he cannot use his Indian passport from then on (after naturalising as a British citizen) and hence there is no way of looking at the option of taking a ROA sticker in Indian passport.

His Indian passport will be automatically invalid for all practical purposes the moment he has naturalised as British citizen.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:21 am

Mahil,
With respect yoru advice is wrong and misguided.

The first page of any Indian passport issued abroad says in screaming capital letters "This must be surrendered immediately if the holder acquires another nationality". The simple fact is that as soon as you take on another nationality you are no longer an Indian citizen and by using a passport to represent yourself as one you are commiting a crime.

You will also not be issued a right of abode sticker in your Indian passport as the home office are well aware that India does not allow dual nationality and if you are British , you cannot be an Indian citizen and your Indian passport is invalid - whether or not it has been formally cancelled.

I will say it again - what is the point of doing all this ? Getting an Indian visa is a matter of a couple of hours and a PIO/OCI takes a couple of weeks in a straightforward process. Trying to play with the immigration rules of any country for no reason other than seeing how much you can get away with is remarkably stupid in my humble opinion.

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:08 pm

lemess wrote:Mahil,
With respect yoru advice is wrong and misguided.

The first page of any Indian passport issued abroad says in screaming capital letters "This must be surrendered immediately if the holder acquires another nationality". The simple fact is that as soon as you take on another nationality you are no longer an Indian citizen and by using a passport to represent yourself as one you are commiting a crime.

You will also not be issued a right of abode sticker in your Indian passport as the home office are well aware that India does not allow dual nationality and if you are British , you cannot be an Indian citizen and your Indian passport is invalid - whether or not it has been formally cancelled.

I will say it again - what is the point of doing all this ? Getting an Indian visa is a matter of a couple of hours and a PIO/OCI takes a couple of weeks in a straightforward process. Trying to play with the immigration rules of any country for no reason other than seeing how much you can get away with is remarkably stupid in my humble opinion.

Yes by Indian law you have to surrender it. According to the Home secretary, it says, your second option (other than applying for BP) is to get a ROA stamp. "But this is different to being called a british citizen". It is only for UK immigration purpose only. Which means I am indian. But according to the Indians I am British now.

I emailed the home office about this, and they told me it was okay to apply for ROA.

Too many confusing statements between the countries.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:17 pm

Too many confusing statements between the countries.

There is no confusion. The simple fact is that the moment you acquire British nationality you are no longer an Indian citizen and your Indian passport is invalid. Full stop.

Obviously the home office has no incentive to carry out detailed checks so they might well put a sticker in your invalid Indian passport. It is your problem not theirs. However, by using that passport you are misrepresenting your nationality and I fail to understand why you would ever want to do that. What could you possibly have to gain ?

Also if you ever get into trouble in a third country you will not be able to use British consular services as you won't have a passport. If you go to the Indian HC, they will instantly see that your ROA sticker means your Indian passport is invalid and will most probably confiscate it. You will be effectively left without recourse.

Once again - what are you trying to achieve ?

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:10 pm

lemess wrote:There is no confusion. The simple fact is that the moment you acquire British nationality you are no longer an Indian citizen and your Indian passport is invalid. Full stop.

Yes, but the Indians don't know whether you acquired British nationality until
a) you renew your passport where the IHC asks you to get a letter from the home office.
b) you apply for OCI.

I said in my post that it is breaking Indian law (fine is in the range of Rs 500 to Rs5000, some people can afford to pay this fee. By the way, there is not even a detailed punishment for this according to the MEA passport website. Many people don't mind paying the fine). You can apply for ROA not just by naturalisation. Naturalisation is just one way to avail yourself to ROA.

For (a) there are ways around this. you can renew your passport in India.

Obviously the home office has no incentive to carry out detailed checks so they might well put a sticker in your invalid Indian passport. It is your problem not theirs. However, by using that passport you are misrepresenting your nationality and I fail to understand why you would ever want to do that. What could you possibly have to gain ?

Lol...Some of us want to stay indian and be british at the same time. We are proud of both countries. OCI doesn't allow you to do some things which is the entire point and believe it or not the Indian passports do come into good use at some places, also has Visa on arrival/visa free travel to some countries where British passports holders need visa.

What else do I have to gain? Some of us might want to get a job in the Indian govt or do the IAS exam. Make a difference to people's lives. We may want to buy agriculture land etc.

Also if you ever get into trouble in a third country you will not be able to use British consular services as you won't have a passport. If you go to the Indian HC, they will instantly see that your ROA sticker means your Indian passport is invalid and will most probably confiscate it. You will be effectively left without recourse.

Once again - what are you trying to achieve ?

LOL!!! hahaha

Now this is what you call scare mongering!

I don't know if you have heard about Immigration act 1971, it applies to ROA holders. Yes, I can confirm ROA holders do recieve diplomatic protection from the UK, it was in the same email I got from the home office. Bottom line is that you will not recieve diplomatic protection in the country of your foreign passport(in this case India).

Oh yes, also there are a lot of people in a position where they have travelled to India on the Indian passport after acquiring British nationality, spoke to one today, they are going to apply for OCI, so lets see what happens. So Suza and Friend, you are not alone.

Forgot to add:
Did you know there are lot of people who hold 2 passports (Indian and foreign). Bangladeshi nationals (specifically says that they can't apply for OCI or enter India with out visa) that I know of, are studying in the UK with Indian passport. But have Bangladeshi passports aswell.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:35 am

You're clearly determined to break the law by using an invalid passport and good luck to you. It is especially hard to see why when OCI and PIO cards are so easy to get.

By the way I am Indian myself and naturalised a few years ago. I never needed to falsely use an Indian passport to consider myself Indian though just as I considered myself one even before I ever had a passport !

Getting a PIO card took me 2 weeks and can be done by post. It has meant visa free travel to India and all the ease I used to have with my Indian passport.

I am struck by your naivety in that you really think you can apply to the Indian civil service and take up a job in it wihout being an Indian national and not get found out at some stage of your career.

Best of luck.

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:07 am

lemess wrote:You're clearly determined to break the law by using an invalid passport and good luck to you. It is especially hard to see why when OCI and PIO cards are so easy to get.

Explained this in my previous post. OCI & PIO's can't do somethings that the Indian passport holders can.

By the way I am Indian myself and naturalised a few years ago. I never needed to falsely use an Indian passport to consider myself Indian though just as I considered myself one even before I ever had a passport !

Some people have reasons to keep the Indian passport. Apparently you can't understand that. There are many benefits of having an Indian passports, somethings which I have already said and some that I can't say on this forum.

How do you know? I could be from Myanmar, where Brit's need visa to enter. So having an Indian passport allows me visa free access there. What if I am from the North East of India, like say Manipur where you need security clearance (foreign nationals are banned from entering Manipur and some other insurgency hit states) to enter your own home state.

I could be from Zanzibar for all you know, Indian passport holders get visa on arrival where again Brit's need visas before hand. We all know that there are lots of Indians who live in Kenya. Indians get Visa on arrival for kenya, where Brits need visa's before entering. So please give it a break and understand why Indians need their Indian passport, let people decide for themselves if they want to use both or apply for OCI etc. Don't make a big hoo haa about it.

I am struck by your naivety in that you really think you can apply to the Indian civil service and take up a job in it wihout being an Indian national and not get found out at some stage of your career.

Lol. I would like to get into civil service. Some people have personal plans and aims in their life. Like doing the IAS/IPS exams, then coming back to the UK for a few years, finishing their career off then come back to India to start the whole IAS process and get inducted (I need an Indian passport as ID and to prove that I am an Indian national to sit the exam). Even then, you will only get found out if you have reach high postings like Chief justice of a state, where you will be vetted by IB.

Anyway why are you discouraging people, that "you can't see what benefits you have" etc. There are plenty of benefits! If you don't have a plan in doing IAS, taking a PSU, govt job, or joining politics, then take the OCI by all means. But don't stop the people who want to do something for their country and get the best of both worlds, even if it means breaking the law.

Best of luck.

Thanks.

lemess · Post by **lemess** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:06 pm

Anyway why are you discouraging people,

You are clearly finding it difficult to understand that all I am doing is pointing out that what you are proposing is illegal and a criminal act. Whether or not you get caught doesn't make it less illegal.

If you are dead set on doing it of course you should go ahead ( it's your life !) but it is only fair to point out to any other readers that they should be careful about following your advice on the grounds of it being against the law !! No amount of argument will ever change that fact.

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:07 pm

lemess wrote: You are clearly finding it difficult to understand that all I am doing is pointing out that what you are proposing is illegal and a criminal act. Whether or not you get caught doesn't make it less illegal.

You are clearly finding it difficult to understand that I agreed and you are resorting to quoting me out of context. You said "what are you gaining etc?", that is what I meant by discouraging and I explained to you what there is to gain.

Let me repost that sentence.

Anyway why are you discouraging people, that "you can't see what benefits you have" etc.

You are talking as if I hid the fact that it is illegal. I said clearly that if you aren't going to occupy any govt post or go mountaineering etc in India then take the OCI by all means. You obviously ain't read the comparitive advantages of Indian passport/PIO/OCI. Go read it (its on the MHA OCI page), you might gain some understanding about restrictions of PIO/OCI as compared to holding an Indian passport. I advice you that if you don't know something, please don't write about it. (Don't mean to be impolite)

If you are dead set on doing it of course you should go ahead ( it's your life !) but it is only fair to point out to any other readers that they should be careful about following your advice on the grounds of it being against the law !! No amount of argument will ever change that fact.

Lol, i said specifically in my post that it is illegal! But we are not doing it just for the fun of it, we are doing it for specific reasons to gain.

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:20 pm

I hereby can confirm that anyone who has travelled to India on their Indian passport after acquiring another nationality is OKAY to apply for OCI.

Quoting an email from Consulate General of India Houston and San Francisco.

Dear Sir/Madam,

It's OK Sir. You have to get your Indian ppt cancelled. You can apply for an OCI.

Thanks,
Status Department

Sir,

You can apply for OCI.

Regard

So much for all your scare mongering and asking people to get consultations for criminal lawyers.

PASS · Post by **PASS** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting an email from Consulate General of India Houston and San Francisco.

Dear Sir/Madam,

It's OK Sir. You have to get your Indian ppt cancelled. You can apply for an OCI.

Thanks,
Status Department

Sir,

You can apply for OCI.

Regard

This is not authentic, anyone can type anything. If someone thinks above message is right, there is no reason why not to consider one below which is not correct.

Dear Sir/Madam,

It's OK Sir. You can keep both your Indian/ British passport and travel as you like.

Thanks,
Status Department

Mahil_2000: Could you pl. provide original message if you have real concern for others?

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:01 pm

Sorry, my bad, I thought about that when I posted it.

If anyone has any questions, email the OCI cell in your respective countries to re-confirm if you don't believe me. Email them to reconfirm anyway, they reply within a day or 2. I emailed both Houston and SF Consulates.

From: "Status Section, Consulate General of India, San Francisco" <status@cgisf.org>
Thursday, 22 February, 2007 6:25:17 PM
Subject: Re: Urgent Enquiry

Dear Sir/Madam,

It's OK Sir. You have to get your Indian ppt cancelled. You can apply for an OCI.

Thanks,
Status Department
Note: Currently visa applications from US nationals sent by mail are processed in around 5-7 working days from the date of receipt .Visas applied for at the counter(US only, upto 12:00 noon only) will be issued usually the same day evening between 4:00 p.m.- 4:45 p.m. Indian passports, except referance cases are processed in around 25 working days, depending upon the workload. PIO cards are processed in 30 working days. The tracking number indicated in our email is applicable only after the package has been dispatched from here. Request check status only where application has been delayed beyond normal schedules. All info given here are for guidance only in an informal way. For more information you may please visit our website: www.cgisf.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Consulate General of India - San Francisco
To: Status
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: Fw: Urgent Enquiry

Consulate General of India - Sanfrancisco
T: (415) 668-0662 / 668-0683 F:(415) 668-9764

Information on consular services are at our website www.cgisf.org.
Write to us only for specific/brief queries, not covered in the website. This will help us in reducing incoming mails.
i) Currently it is peak time for services with a long waiting. It is not feasible to give status on current applications. If your application has been delayed much beyond the normal processing time, please write to status@cgisf.org. Intermediary correspondence on OCI or status of OCI not feasible. We will process OCI cases within the prescribed time limit of 12 weeks.
ii.) The normal validity of a passport is ten years for adults and five years for minors. Passports issued for normal validity and expiring, apply for a new passport.
iii) Visa on expired US passport can be used with current US passport or the visa can be transferred to new passport for a payment of $25 (see instructions on visa applications)

----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxx
To: INFO@CGISF.ORG
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:30 AM
Subject: Urgent Enquiry

Dear Sir/madam,
I have acquired British passport in 2004. But I did not realise I had to cancel my Indian passport until a friend told me yesterday as this would be breaking the passport act. I have travelled to India 4 times with the indian passport after acquiring British passport. I am really sorry for breaking the passport act, but please can you let me know if I am okay to apply for an OCI or whether I will be prosecuted? Should I take legal consultations? I would now like to apply for an OCI, would I be allowed to do so?

Please advise.

Thank You.

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British · Post by **British** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:37 pm

Thanks for all that Mahil. Is that the kind of difference that exists in Indian laws between what is in books and what is in practice?????

I am so so i am so so surprised, especially when they say it was all OK to have travelled with Indian pasport after it has become invalid.

I feel like an Idiot now, as to why i had to apply for a PIO card, spending £ 225, when after all i could have easily used the Indian passport to travel to India.
If this was all OK, then i could have simply deffered getting a lesser valueable PIO card by paying a ridiculous £225 cash!

Money suckers!!!!!!

It all proves now that Indian laws are not to be taken very seriously.
Really, your evidence is an eye opener about Indian laws

But having said all that, the CGI birmingham web site clearly says that it is illegal to use Indian passport when one is a foreign citizen, and it continues to be an offense to use the invalid Indian passport.

The link is here: http://www.cgibirmingham.org/noticeboard_alt.htm

But the email you have shown to us as evidence says that it is OK to have used Indian passport when you were British citizen. Which one is correct, only god knows.

Ridiculous thing.

So i think what the email is saying is that you can apply for the OCI, but you may have to declare the offense committed in the form where it asks for that data - i.e. any criminal ofense committed by the applicant.
So whoever has used the invalid indian passport in the past could apply for OIC (based on your email evidence) but they may still have to declare the past offense in the form???? (this is because the email reply in your case does not speak about pardoning the offense, it only says OK go ahead and apply for OIC).

mahil_2000 · Post by **mahil_2000** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:45 pm

British wrote:Thanks for all that Mahil. Is that the kind of difference that exists in Indian laws between what is in books and what is in practice?????

Depends, not so serious stuff like this, you can get away. If it is serious stuff or the media gets a word about it, then you see the action! Even if you get caught, people will just bribe their way out. That is reality in India.

I am so so i am so so surprised, especially when they say you can travel with Indian pasport after it has become invalid.

Invalid according to Indian law. But they have no way to check that you have naturalised unless they put in a request with MEA to HO, which takes time etc.

I feel like an Idiot now, as to why i had to apply for a PIO card, after all when i could have easily used the Indian passport to travel to India.

It all proves now that Indian laws are not to be taken very seriously.

Ridiculous thing.

Don't need to feel so bad, put it this way, if you aren't going to invest in Agri land, or join a PSU, politics etc, then you are okay. If you are going to visit places like Kenya, Indian passport holders have advantages.

As I said, you can get round problem (a) in my previous posts by applying in India.

I think it is a very Indian thing to be scared of the law. I have noticed it too many times among indians. Don't be afraid, there is always a way around the system.

Indian passport holders get visa on arrival/visa free travel to over 38 countries.

But British passport holders have major advantages if you are going to regularly visit EU nations obviously and other places.

Otherwise your ROA in your Indian passport should suffice.

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