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Overseas Citizenship of India (OCI)

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yorkking
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Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:42 pm

hi

Post by yorkking » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:45 pm

I have enclosed an envelope.
I have not recd. anything until now.
The receipts say 'to be collected 6/1'?
What to do?
Please advise.
Cheers,
YK

lemess
Member of Standing
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:06 pm

Post by lemess » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:08 pm

If your envelope is a special delivery one ( and not just a plain one which they will not use) , then you should get in touch with them. You could try calling or emailing the pio section but realistically the fastest turnaround is if you go over personally to the high commission with your receipt.
Personally I would give it till the end of the week before getting in touch with them.
PS - they put a collection date on the receipts as a matter of course even for cases where they send the card in the special delivery envelope.

yorkking
Newbie
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:42 pm

hi

Post by yorkking » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:23 am

Hi
I gave a spl. delivery envelope.
have not heard anything yet.
does the high commission in lonon have an email address where they can be contacted?
i have been trying to phone them in vain.
please help.
yk

coolMe
Newly Registered
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:51 am

Implication of British Consular Protection

Post by coolMe » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:31 pm

Hi Everyone,

I recently got my British Citizenship and I am planning to apply for OIC. But in this forum, I have been reading lot of comments of loosing british consular protection under OIC

I would like to know the Implication of British Consular Protection. I have been reading in this forum about various British Nationality Acts etc. regarding this.

How it will affect anyone if he has plans of settling in India using OIC for few years ??

Why people say that PIO is better in that sense compared to OIC.

Would really appreaciate if somebody can answer to my questions.

Regards
Cool Me

ppron747
inactive
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: used to be London

Re: Implication of British Consular Protection

Post by ppron747 » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:56 pm

coolMe wrote:Hi Everyone,

I recently got my British Citizenship and I am planning to apply for OIC. But in this forum, I have been reading lot of comments of loosing british consular protection under OIC

I would like to know the Implication of British Consular Protection. I have been reading in this forum about various British Nationality Acts etc. regarding this.

How it will affect anyone if he has plans of settling in India using OIC for few years ??

Why people say that PIO is better in that sense compared to OIC.

Would really appreaciate if somebody can answer to my questions.
I think one of the points is that while PIO is simply a status, OIC purports to be a citizenship (albeit a citizenship that doesn't give the holder a passport!) So, effectively, you'd be an Indian national in India and thus not eligible for the full range of British consular assistance.

A good starting point as to what this means might be the Travel Advice Section of the FCO website - there's a section on dual nationality at http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pag ... 8377478962, which includes the following:
If you are a dual national in the country of your other nationality
If you are a British national and you are in the country of your other nationality, the authorities of your other nationality are entitled to take the view that the British Government has no standing in the matter. The British Consul will not provide consular assistance to you regardless of which passport you have used to enter the country of your other nationality. We have the discretion to make an exception to this rule if, having looked at the circumstances of the case, we consider that there is a special humanitarian reason to do so. Such circumstances might include, for example, cases concerning minors, forced marriages or capital offences. However, the assistance we can provide will depend on the circumstances and will require the acquiescence of the other state. If under the law of that country you are liable for any obligation such as military service, the fact that you are also a British national does not necessarily provide exemption and we will not intervene on your behalf on such matters. However, there is assistance that the British Consul can still provide to you in your country of other nationality.

The British Consul can...
# In a crisis, try to evacuate dual nationals (including those who have renounced British citizenship but who are applying for resumption), subject to the resources available;
# Issue passports or emergency passports;
# Accept registration with the consular section (subject to local procedures). However, registration does not mean that the Post will provide consular assistance;
# Provide general advice on how to transfer funds by commercial means;
# Provide details of local lawyers, interpreters and doctors;
# Provide details of organisations experienced in tracing missing persons;
# Undertake notarial work.
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
Want a 2nd opinion? One will be along shortly....

rahul_yanina
Newbie
Posts: 34
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Location: Watford

Post by rahul_yanina » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:20 pm

Why does immigration always have to be so bloody complicated!???!!


I was wondering after going through the link in the previous post - what happens if I lost my British passport in India and I have OIC? Will the British consulate not issue me with a new passport, as I am in the country of my second citizenship? If that is the case, I cannot travel at all, as my OIC was on my British Passport!

ppron747
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Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: used to be London

Post by ppron747 » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:33 pm

Did you get as far as the second bullet point in the list headed "The British Consul can... " that I quoted in my previous post? :)
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
Want a 2nd opinion? One will be along shortly....

rahul_yanina
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Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Watford

Post by rahul_yanina » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:35 pm

I did, but that is the case when the second citizenship is not in the country the person is in and where he/she has lost the passport - that is how I read it anyway.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

ppron747
inactive
Posts: 950
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: used to be London

Post by ppron747 » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:44 pm

rahul_yanina wrote:I did, but that is the case when the second citizenship is not in the country the person is in and where he/she has lost the passport - that is how I read it anyway.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Consider it done.... ;)

The heading of the passage I quoted is "If you are a dual national in the country of your other nationality" and the whole of it applies to dual nationals in the country of their other nationality.
|| paul R.I.P, January, 2007
Want a 2nd opinion? One will be along shortly....

basis

Post by basis » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:51 pm

Has anyone applied for the OCI yet at HCI London ?

basis

Home Ministry opposes move to allow PIOs to invest in aviati

Post by basis » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:23 pm


basis

Post by basis » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:52 am

If a UK citizen of Indian origin gets PIO / OCI and lives in India -

Does he / she have to pay taxes in the UK on the income earned in India ?

basis

Post by basis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:01 am

http://mha.nic.in has been added a new section http://mha.nic.in/oci-chart.pdf

It gives useful comparison between NRI / PIO / PIO card holder and OCI.

lemess
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Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:06 pm

Post by lemess » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:42 am

From that list there appear to be even fewer advantages of OCI over PIO than previously thought. PIO card holders can also acquire Indian citizenship ( albeit after 7 years as opposed to 5 for OCI). The only other difference is the registration requirement for continuous stays of over 6 months. That's it !

I wonder why they are complicating simple matters by keeping these dual mechanisms that are essentially exactly the same.

basis

Post by basis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:03 pm

lemess wrote:From that list there appear to be even fewer advantages of OCI over PIO than previously thought. PIO card holders can also acquire Indian citizenship ( albeit after 7 years as opposed to 5 for OCI). The only other difference is the registration requirement for continuous stays of over 6 months. That's it !

I wonder why they are complicating simple matters by keeping these dual mechanisms that are essentially exactly the same.
Lemess - Remember PIOs can get citizenship but for that he/she has to reside in India for minimum 7 years before making application for granting Indian citizenship.

In case of OCIs though citizenship may be granted Indian citizenship after 5 years from date of registration provided he/she stays for one year in India before making application

So with OCI one has to stay only one year in India during the five years. Imagine a case where a person wants to return to India for good - if one is on PIO he / she will have to wait for seven years and will have to reside in India all those seven years to be able to apply for citizenship. In case of OCI the person will have to stay only one year and provided they have completed five years from obtaining OCI they will get Indian passport.

Another difference (dont know how much practical it is - OCI benefits can be extended in future under section 7b(1) of the Citizenship Act,
1955. Which may / may not happen for PIOs as the list is definitive as of now.

basis

Post by basis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:08 pm

lemess wrote:From that list there appear to be even fewer advantages of OCI over PIO than previously thought. PIO card holders can also acquire Indian citizenship ( albeit after 7 years as opposed to 5 for OCI). The only other difference is the registration requirement for continuous stays of over 6 months. That's it !

I wonder why they are complicating simple matters by keeping these dual mechanisms that are essentially exactly the same.
Lemess - Remember PIOs can get citizenship but for that he/she has to reside in India for minimum 7 years before making application for granting Indian citizenship.

In case of OCIs though citizenship may be granted Indian citizenship after 5 years from date of registration provided he/she stays for one year in India before making application

So with OCI one has to stay only one year in India during the five years. Imagine a case where a person wants to return to India for good - if one is on PIO he / she will have to wait for seven years and will have to reside in India all those seven years to be able to apply for citizenship. In case of OCI the person will have to stay only one year during the five years from the date of obtaining OCI to apply for Indian citizenship.

Another difference (dont know how much practical it is - OCI benefits can be extended in future under section 7b(1) of the Citizenship Act,
1955. Which may / may not happen for PIOs as the list is definitive as of now.

basis

Post by basis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:09 pm

lemess wrote:From that list there appear to be even fewer advantages of OCI over PIO than previously thought. PIO card holders can also acquire Indian citizenship ( albeit after 7 years as opposed to 5 for OCI). The only other difference is the registration requirement for continuous stays of over 6 months. That's it !

I wonder why they are complicating simple matters by keeping these dual mechanisms that are essentially exactly the same.
Lemess - Remember PIOs can get citizenship but for that he/she has to reside in India for minimum 7 years before making application for granting Indian citizenship.

In case of OCIs though citizenship may be granted Indian citizenship after 5 years from date of registration provided he/she stays for one year in India before making application

So with OCI one has to stay only one year in India during the five years. Imagine a case where a person wants to return to India for good - if one is on PIO he / she will have to wait for seven years and will have to reside in India all those seven years to be able to apply for citizenship. In case of OCI the person will have to stay only one year during the five years from the date of obtaining OCI to apply for Indian citizenship.

Another difference (dont know how much practical it is - OCI benefits can be extended in future under section 7b(1) of the Citizenship Act,
1955. Which may / may not happen for PIOs as the list is definitive as of now.

This is what MHA says itself at http://mha.nic.in/oci-faq.pdf

39. What are the advantages of the OCI when compared to PIO
cardholders ?
(i) An OCI is entitled to life long visa with free travel to India
whereas for a PIO card holder, it is only valid for 15 years.
(ii) A PIO cardholder is required to register with local Police
authority for any stay exceeding 180 days in India on any single
visit whereas an OCI is exempted from registration with Police
authority for any length of stay in India.
(iii) An OCI gets a specific right to become an Indian Citizen as in
29 ,whereas the PIO card holder does not have this.

basis

Post by basis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:11 pm

lemess wrote:From that list there appear to be even fewer advantages of OCI over PIO than previously thought. PIO card holders can also acquire Indian citizenship ( albeit after 7 years as opposed to 5 for OCI). The only other difference is the registration requirement for continuous stays of over 6 months. That's it !

I wonder why they are complicating simple matters by keeping these dual mechanisms that are essentially exactly the same.
Lemess - Remember PIOs can get citizenship but for that he/she has to reside in India for minimum 7 years before making application for granting Indian citizenship.

In case of OCIs though citizenship may be granted Indian citizenship after 5 years from date of registration provided he/she stays for one year in India before making application

So with OCI one has to stay only one year in India during the five years. Imagine a case where a person wants to return to India for good - if one is on PIO he / she will have to wait for seven years and will have to reside in India all those seven years to be able to apply for citizenship. In case of OCI the person will have to stay only one year during the five years from the date of obtaining OCI to apply for Indian citizenship.

Another difference (dont know how much practical it is - OCI benefits can be extended in future under section 7b(1) of the Citizenship Act,
1955. Which may / may not happen for PIOs as the list is definitive as of now.

This is what MHA says itself at http://mha.nic.in/oci-faq.pdf

39. What are the advantages of the OCI when compared to PIO
cardholders ?
(i) An OCI is entitled to life long visa with free travel to India whereas for a PIO card holder, it is only valid for 15 years.
(ii) A PIO cardholder is required to register with local Police authority for any stay exceeding 180 days in India on any single
visit whereas an OCI is exempted from registration with Police authority for any length of stay in India.
(iii) An OCI gets a specific right to become an Indian Citizen as in 29 ,whereas the PIO card holder does not have this.

lemess
Member of Standing
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:06 pm

Post by lemess » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:51 pm

yes i realise that there are some differences but for the life of me i don't see the point in keeping two schemes that are very similar running - I suppose it keeps the babu's occupied. I expect at some stage sanity will prevail and PIO cards and OCI will merge into one status.

basis

Post by basis » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:00 am

Agree Lemess. The biggest joke is the OCI is not available for the PIOs who are citizens of countries that prohibit dual citizenship.

The whole thing is a fiasco. I think what's happenned is they initially would have thought to give proper dual citizenship. In that case of course they wanted to restrict it to PIOs who are citizens of countries which allow dual citizenship.

In that case the current PIO card scheme would have been continued to be available to those who are citizens of countries which do not allow dual citizenship.

But then they found that dual citizenship can only be allowed after proper changes in the constitution. But they had already promised, committed to PIOs that they will work on giving dual citizenship. So they kept their 'words' by changing the meaning of the word or rather making it meaningless.

I think slowly they will allow the PIOs who are citizens of countries which do not allow dual citizenship to apply for OCI. But they will have to handle it gradually and in politically correct way because then they would have to publically and explicitly accept that they wasted three years in coming out with a scheme which is not much different from the existing one and no where nead 'dual citizenship'.

basis

Dual Citizenship - OCI - Imbroglio continues

Post by basis » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:06 am

Consular Protection in International Law:

The most oft-cited problem is the conflict of diplomatic protection. States may espouse international claims on behalf of their citizens, but a conflict arises if a state wishes to espouse an international claim against another state on behalf of an individual who is a citizen of both states. The international law of "dominant nationality" generally resolves such situations. See United States ex rel. Mergé v. Italian Republic, 14 R.I.A.A. 236, 246-48 (Italian-U.S. Conciliation Comm'n 1955).
http://www.jeanmonnetprogram.org/pa...7/97-10-II.html


US State Dept on Dual CitizenshipThe U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_...s/cis_1753.html


US State Dept on OCI

In 2003, India passed a bill that allows persons of Indian origin in sixteen countries (subsequently extended to almost all countries), including the United States, to apply for a form of dual citizenship known as “Overseas Citizens of India” (OCI). The government recently announced that the process for a person to become an OCI will be launched on August 15, 2005 or shortly thereafter. However, many specific details regarding what rights and obligations apply to a person who applies for OCI status have yet to be clarified. Presently, the Government of India offers a special visa for “Persons of Indian Origin” (PIO). It is contemplated that OCI status will be similar to PIO status. At present, the PIO card allows a person to enter and exit the country without a visa for almost any purpose for any period of time, without the requirement of registering with immigration authorities. However, PIOs cannot vote in Indian elections, and are also subject to other restrictions, such as the ability to own certain types of real property in India. The Embassy understands that similar restrictions may apply to OCIs. The Indian government has indicated that a person who applies for OCI status will not be required to take an oath of allegiance to India. Accordingly, at this time, it is not clear whether an OCI would legally be considered a “national” of India. Information on how to apply for PIO or OCI status can be found on the Indian Embassy’s website at http://www.indianembassy.org/consular/index.htm.

Any person who is considered to have dual nationality as a citizen of both India and the U.S is subject to all Indian laws. Moreover, a dual national also may be subject to other laws and regulations that impose special obligations on Indian citizens, such as taxation. In some instances such as arrest, dual nationality may hamper U.S. Government efforts to provide assistance abroad. Additional general information about dual nationality is available at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_...s/cis_1753.html.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_...s/cis_1139.html




UK on the other hand thinks OCI is Indian Nationality:

Indian Overseas Citizenship (IOC)
For the purposes of British nationality law, IOC is considered to be citizenship of another State.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/in...h.textonly.html

basis

Post by basis » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:12 am

There is a new site for OCI.


http://ociindia.nic.in/ociindia/OnlineO ... ationG.jsp
http://ociindia.nic.in/

But one needs user ID and password for that. Where to get it ? Is it still under developement or only for babus (in both the cases why is on www)

raikal
Junior Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 1:01 am
Location: UK

Post by raikal » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:30 pm

basis/ lemsis

I was told by a friend of mine who worked in Indian embassy in the past in London that

Any Indian citizen who loses the nationality by getting foreign nationality ( like BN) and then apply for either PIO or OCI , there is no minimum stay in the country ( 7 years for PIO or 5 years for OCI) for these people.
These were already indian citizens in the past and if they want to get back to Indian nationality ( by renouncing BN ) then there is no minimum stay clause.

That looks correct to me too...

do you agree?

basis

Post by basis » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:10 pm

I am not sure. But I know one case myself where the person was Indian citizen originally, went to the US on H1, eventually got the US Citizenship, lived there for 10 more years. He came back to India - renounced US citizenship and immidiately got back Indian citizenship. Of course neither did he have PIO nor OCI at the time he returned to India. He came here on Long Term Multi-entry Visa and renounced USC. He straightaway started working in the company where I currently work. Hard to believe !!!

But once one applies for PIO / OIC I am not sure what the situation would be ??? And neither I know any legal provision under which the above happanned. Anyone else any thoughts !!!

basis

Post by basis » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:30 pm

Some good sites -

The following clearly shows what was intended and recommended. And how our babus and GOI have managed to cheat us by giving useless OCI.

http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter36.pdf
http://www.samachar.com/features/210605-middle.html
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter10.pdf
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in

What can NRIs / PIOs and now OCIs do -

http://iic.nic.in
http://iic.nic.in/piocard.htm

Consular and other issues of PIOs - http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter27.pdf

What are the rights of PIO card holders ? Review of PIO card scheme -
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter24.pdf

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