Applying for British Passport online

akhurshid · Post by **akhurshid** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:37 pm

Nice one.
Keep us posted as I prefer online application too.

2wmm · Post by **2wmm** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:51 pm

UPDATE on 5/11

2wmm wrote:
2wmm wrote:Passport for: 3 Adult + 1 Child
Application Type: New (Naturalized Citizen)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 20/10/2014 (declaration forms posted by special delivery)
Online status on 21/10/2014: forms received/processing.
Received the infamous letter to refill the paper form for 3 adults: 26/10,
Re-posted the paper forms of 3: 28/10
Online status on 29/10 for 3 adults: please contact us.
Online status for 1 child: forms received/processing.
Date application received by IPS (text): 30/10 (one text)
Date of return of documents: tbc
Date of receipt of interview letter:2 on 4/11, 1 on 5/11
Date of Passport Appointment: 7/11
Date of Passport Receipt:tbc

d40201 · Post by **d40201** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:51 pm

Saffagrl wrote:I agree that it is a big problem that they are selling an online service which is clearly unfit for purpose. I am trying to avoid having to resend the paper form at all, as I have complied with what was requested from me online in full. It is not my fault if the online system has a mistake in it that needs to be rectified.

My email to the MP was along these lines (but I would urge you to do your own version - I am by no means perfect when it comes to writing and a more personal approach will probably make them take a lot more notice than a bunch of identical emails reaching the MP or ideally Immigration Minister in charge of the Passport Office):

Dear Ms/Mr/Miss/Mrs,
Further to enquiries regarding the delay I am experiencing with my online passport application, during which I was informed that Section 4 of my application was incomplete, I have just received a letter from the Peterborough passport office (attached) effectively informing me to make a fresh application, with a blank paper application form enclosed!

This is nothing short of outrageous and represents the very worst of what is a national scandal.

I have followed the Passport Office online application procedure to a T, and completed the online application in order to expedite the process. The online process picks the sections based on the answers given to various questions (such as whether or not you have received a Naturalisation Certificate), and then you are left to print off a signed declaration form with counter-signatory details, and send in the physical supporting documentation. All of this I have done. HM Passport's online system did not request me to complete Section 4 at all or provide the information pertaining to section 4 anywhere throughout the application process.

As per page 14 of the Passport Office Guidance notes found here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg ... 184487.pdf , no document/information of parents or grandparents are required for Naturalised Citizens (which is the only information dealt with by section 4).

So either
a) their online system is not fit for purpose; or
b) the Peterborough office is plain wrong;
c) or there is a discrepancy in criteria between Glasgow (online) and Peterborough (paper).

The return address for my initial signed declaration was Glasgow which deals with the online applications. What I suspect has happened is that in order to ease the terrible backlog at Glasgow, my application was transferred to Peterborough which deals more with paper applications, and they seem to be lost out at sea with regards to my application, possibly due to reason c)

Regardless, being informed that my application is effectively rejected, and that I have to fill out a fresh paper application is nothing short of a disgrace.

I request:
1) urgent, strong representations be made to a senior officer in the passport office that my application be accepted as complete as per the online system and
2) that the minister in charge or the passport office - Immigration Minister James Brokenshire be informed of the same - there is a systemic failure here.
3) An apology and acknowledgement from HM Passport Office that the online application system is not fit for purpose and in effect causes extra delays to applications due to this.

I cannot overemphasise just how unjust and outrageous a situation the passport office has created, and consequently how upset I feel right now at the prospects of my holiday with child in very real risk of being ruined.

What confidence has the public in the e-government, online project, when an applicant utilises the online system perfectly and without fault only for her to be subsequently told her application is deficient! Why roll out, promote and encourage the use of a system that will necessarily lead a naturalised citizen to be rejected?

Ideally, I would like my application to be transferred to a same say service in London (if this is within the next week - I don't want this to be cause of further delays) at no cost given the chaos HMP has created.

I look forward to hearing from you urgently.

Many thanks

(HM Passport Office letter attached )
Something along those lines...

PS: I haven't approached the press yet, but would not think that right wing press such as the daily mail would have any concerns about the problems of immigrants...

I might do a Freedom of Informatiom request on how many similar "incomplete" online applications there has been from naturalised citizens, compared to how many onine applicatioms there are from naturalised citizens. It would be interestimg to note if this policy is being applied arbitrarily or not.

Did you receive a response to this? The level of incompetence is incredible. If you have not submitted the FoI request I will and will send the results to the HO select committee.

2wmm · Post by **2wmm** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:53 pm

2wmm wrote:UPDATE on 10/11

2wmm wrote:
2wmm wrote:Passport for: 3 Adult + 1 Child
Application Type: New (Naturalized Citizen)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 20/10/2014 (declaration forms posted by special delivery)
Online status on 21/10/2014: forms received/processing.
Received the infamous letter to refill the paper form for 3 adults: 26/10,
Re-posted the paper forms of 3: 28/10
Online status on 29/10 for 3 adults: please contact us.
Online status for 1 child: forms received/processing.
Date application received by IPS (text): 30/10 (one text)
Date of return of documents: 1 on 6/11, 3 on 7/11
Date of receipt of interview letter:2 on 4/11, 1 on 5/11
Date of Passport Appointment: 7/11 for 3 adults
Date of Passport Receipt:

akhurshid · Post by **akhurshid** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:27 pm

Looking at your passport application time line makes me believe that online application is a bumpy ride so I am gonna stick to the paper one.

akhurshid · Post by **akhurshid** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:36 pm

I emailed HMPO asking if parent details are actually required and if they do, why doesn't the form ask you about them.

Their reply is to include those details in a covering letter instead as they are required. No indication of addressing the actual issue with the system. Pathetic or incompetence?

2wmm · Post by **2wmm** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:16 pm

akhurshid wrote:I emailed HMPO asking if parent details are actually required and if they do, why doesn't the form ask you about them.

Their reply is to include those details in a covering letter instead as they are required. No indication of addressing the actual issue with the system. Pathetic or incompetence?

Hi there, I did enclosed 4 covering letters for each one in my group (learnt from previous experiences shared in this forum), however they still asked for paper forms to be re-submitted. I mentioned that after my interview, the man apologised and said he would pass my message on.

I am sure hardly anyone will challenge the BETA at the moment. please go C&P.....

akhurshid · Post by **akhurshid** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:48 pm

Yeah gonna use paper form for sure.
What is C&P? If you mean check and send then I didn't have good experience with them so gonna post it myself.

2wmm · Post by **2wmm** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:22 pm

akhurshid wrote:Yeah gonna use paper form for sure.
What is C&P? If you mean check and send then I didn't have good experience with them so gonna post it myself.

Hi I meant C&S! Good luck!

2wmm · Post by **2wmm** » Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:25 pm

UPDATE on 11/11

2wmm wrote:
2wmm wrote:Passport for: 3 Adult + 1 Child
Application Type: New (Naturalized Citizen)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 20/10/2014 (declaration forms posted by special delivery)
Online status on 21/10/2014: forms received/processing.
Received the infamous letter to refill the paper form for 3 adults: 26/10,
Re-posted the paper forms of 3: 28/10
Online status on 29/10 for 3 adults: please contact us.
Online status for 1 child: forms received/processing.
Date application received by IPS (text): 30/10 (one text)
Date of return of documents: 1 on 6/11, 3 on 7/11
Date of receipt of interview letter:2 on 4/11, 1 on 5/11
Date of Passport Appointment: 7/11 for 3 adults
Date of Passport printing sms receipt: not yet, doubt will.
Date of Passport Receipt: 11/11 received 4 through the letter hole, no signature required.
Online status on 11/11: 1 child-dispatched, 3 adults-please contact us.

Although a bit bumpy for my online application, I am still impressed by the service. 20 days for a group of 4!
Thanks for this web/forum, lots support and kind help! Wish everyone has a smooth citizenship/passport journey!

[/quote][/quote]

downlights · Post by **downlights** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:40 pm

I have naturalized as BC and applied for passport online and got a blank paper form posted back to me like the others on this forum.

I have written a complaint today and will update once I hear a reply. I am in no urgent need to travel so I'm going to have a go at them.

The law is clear, british citizens are entitled to a British passport. There're exception of course like court order banning travel but this is not central to this topic. So, naturalisation certificate alone is enough to prove entitlement to uk passport. Asking for parents or grandparents details is pure ignorant on their part.

But perhaps parents details are needed to decide if one was British by descent or otherwise. I'm arguing that this is BS as well. Published guidance on naturalisation casework has stated that as part of the application checking, case workers must ascertain whether the applicant could have been british already by other means. It means that naturalized citizens could not have acquired citizenship by descent, so asking for parents' details of such citizens is totally unnecessary.

Clearly, the mandate of the online form is to reduce bureaucracy and generate the most suitable form depending on who the passport applicant is, by filtering out unnecessary questions. It is a smart way of doing things. The staff who process the application are just incompetent and their actions counter the whole point of the online system, creating bureaucracy as a result to the inconvenience of citizens like us.

I am looking forward to their reply, at least give me proper and full explanation why completing the whole form (again) including section 4 is necessary.

perfectionist · Post by **perfectionist** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:41 pm

Passport Type: Child (first time)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 02/11/2014
Awaiting information from the applicant: 03/11/2014
Declaration form received, being processed: 04/11/2014
Dispatched: 07/11/2014
Date of return of documents: 11/11/2014
Date of receipt of interview letter: N/A
Date of passport appointment: N/A
Date of passport printing SMS: 07/11/2014
Date of passport receipt: 10/11/2014

MRLAOLU · Post by **MRLAOLU** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:12 pm

Passport Type: Child X3 (first time)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 12/11/2014
Awaiting information from the applicant: 13/11/2014
Declaration form received, being processed: 14/11/2014
Dispatched: 17/11/2014
Date of return of documents: Awaiting
Date of receipt of interview letter: N/A
Date of passport appointment: N/A
Date of passport printing SMS: 17/11/2014
Date of passport receipt: 18/11/2014 (only 2 passports received)

lofisandra · Post by **lofisandra** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:36 am

Hi everyone. I've applied for a first adult British passport online as a naturalised citizen and as the online form didn't ask for parents' details I didn't provide this.

I've discovered this thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 13820.html where one poster says:

I was told by the post office 'check and send' lady to ignore the parent/grandparent bit as it doesnt apply to naturalised citizens, and my application went through fine.

What I'm interested in is if anyone has successfully challenged HMPO and refused to provide these details through filling in unnecessarily another paper form?

akhurshid · Post by **akhurshid** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:01 pm

I don't know about that but I emailed HMPO and they advised parents details are required and I should include a covering letter with those details along with my application.
I just decided to go ahead with paper application. Worst case scenario for you will be that they'll send you a paper form and ask you to fill and resend it.

williammjchew · Post by **williammjchew** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:28 pm

Passport for: 1 Adult
Application Type: First Adult Passport (Naturalized Citizen)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 5/11/2014 (declaration forms posted by special delivery)
Online status on 7/11/2014: forms received/processing
Received the infamous letter to re-file the paper form: 8/11/2014
Re-posted the paper form: 10/11/14 (post by special delivery)
Date of receipt of text confirming application received: 13/11/14
Online status on 13/11/14: Please contact us.
Date of return of original documents: 19/11/14 (via secure delivery)
Date of receipt of interview letter: 19/11/14
Date of Passport Appointment: 25/11/14
Date of receipt of text confirming printing of passport: 26/11/14
Date of Passport Receipt: 27/11/14

lofisandra · Post by **lofisandra** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:46 pm

akhurshid wrote:I don't know about that but I emailed HMPO and they advised parents details are required and I should include a covering letter with those details along with my application.
I just decided to go ahead with paper application. Worst case scenario for you will be that they'll send you a paper form and ask you to fill and resend it.

I emailed them and this is what they said:

You must complete section 4 if you were born outside of the UK or after 31st December 1982, If both parents were after 1982 or born outside of the UK (and the applicant has not been naturalised) you must also give details of their claim to British Nationality or provide details of the Grandparents.

Note the section in brackets saying "and the applicant has not been naturalised"...

akhurshid · Post by **akhurshid** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:11 pm

looks like they are not sure themselves.

lofisandra · Post by **lofisandra** » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:27 pm

downlights wrote:I have naturalized as BC and applied for passport online and got a blank paper form posted back to me like the others on this forum.

I have written a complaint today and will update once I hear a reply. I am in no urgent need to travel so I'm going to have a go at them.

The law is clear, british citizens are entitled to a British passport. There're exception of course like court order banning travel but this is not central to this topic. So, naturalisation certificate alone is enough to prove entitlement to uk passport. Asking for parents or grandparents details is pure ignorant on their part.

But perhaps parents details are needed to decide if one was British by descent or otherwise. I'm arguing that this is BS as well. Published guidance on naturalisation casework has stated that as part of the application checking, case workers must ascertain whether the applicant could have been british already by other means. It means that naturalized citizens could not have acquired citizenship by descent, so asking for parents' details of such citizens is totally unnecessary.

Clearly, the mandate of the online form is to reduce bureaucracy and generate the most suitable form depending on who the passport applicant is, by filtering out unnecessary questions. It is a smart way of doing things. The staff who process the application are just incompetent and their actions counter the whole point of the online system, creating bureaucracy as a result to the inconvenience of citizens like us.

I am looking forward to their reply, at least give me proper and full explanation why completing the whole form (again) including section 4 is necessary.

I am very interested to hear the outcome of this. Please keep us posted.

smartkhan · Post by **smartkhan** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:07 pm

What documents did you send with it? Did you send parent's BRP with it? If yes original or photocopy?

perfectionist wrote:Passport Type: Child (first time)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 02/11/2014
Awaiting information from the applicant: 03/11/2014
Declaration form received, being processed: 04/11/2014
Dispatched: 07/11/2014
Date of return of documents: 11/11/2014
Date of receipt of interview letter: N/A
Date of passport appointment: N/A
Date of passport printing SMS: 07/11/2014
Date of passport receipt: 10/11/2014

perfectionist · Post by **perfectionist** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:13 pm

2 Photos (1 counter-signed)
Foreign Passport
Citizenship certificate

smartkhan wrote:What documents did you send with it? Did you send parent's BRP with it? If yes original or photocopy?

perfectionist wrote:Passport Type: Child (first time)
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 02/11/2014
Awaiting information from the applicant: 03/11/2014
Declaration form received, being processed: 04/11/2014
Dispatched: 07/11/2014
Date of return of documents: 11/11/2014
Date of receipt of interview letter: N/A
Date of passport appointment: N/A
Date of passport printing SMS: 07/11/2014
Date of passport receipt: 10/11/2014

downlights · Post by **downlights** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Further to my complain described here, I received an unsatisfactory reply, in short, they insist that parents details are required to establish the nationality of naturalised citizens.

Did I hear that wrong?? No, I did not. The letter I got from HMPO basically imply that naturalised citizens aren't citizens - that such citizens need to establish their citizenship by providing parents' details. This is pure incompetence on their part, it is criminal!

After being given a blank form to fill by Peterborough office, twice! and after receiving incompetent answers to my complaint from the Liverpool office. I could gauge that the culture of bureaucracy and incompetence is deep-rooted in the HMPO's work culture, so I gave up making further complaints.

I have re-submitted everything in the last week of November to satisfy the bureaucratic hunger and have attended a passport interview today.

downlights · Post by **downlights** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:15 pm

For anyone interested/curious, below are my complaint letter and the reply from Liverpool office

Complaint letter dated 13 Nov 2014

Customer service manager
Customer contact centre
PO Box 175
Newport
Gwent
NP20 2DW

Dear Sir,

Formal Complaint on the Standard of Service

I am writing to make a formal complaint on the standard of service received following my recent application for a British passport. I am guided by the complaints procedure published on http://www.gov.uk, which include information on escalation avenues.

Summary

Two weeks ago, I made an online application for first adult British passport. On 3 November 2014, I posted the declaration form with supporting documents to the HMPO in Peterborough. A few days later, they posted a blank application form back to me, requesting that I fill the whole form again, which I did except for the countersignatory section because it had been done on the declaration form. Now, they have posted a blank form to me again telling me essentially the same thing. There is no clear explanation of why this is necessary, and what information had I missed if any. I am dissatisfied about the unhelpful guidance provided by HMPO Peterborough, the confusion between an online and paper application and the amount of red tape that hinders an otherwise straightforward application. I request that you investigate this and provide me with an explanation as well as an invitation to a passport interview – because I believe I have supplied all the necessary information and supporting documents.

These are the details you may require as per the complaints procedure
Name of passport applicant: abc
Date of birth of applicant: abc
Date application was sent: 3 November 2014
Regional passport office: HMPO Peterborough
Barcode number: 123
Passport number: 123
Contact information of applicant: abc

Entitlement to British passport

As can be established from my immigration records held by the Home Office (of which the HMPO is a part of), I have naturalised as a British citizen in 2013, not least the naturalisation certificate was enclosed as part of my passport application. My citizenship was granted under s6(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981, and with it I am entitled to a British passport. Whether I was born outside the UK before/after 1983 and the details of my parents/grandparents is not relevant – because my claim to British citizenship (and hence a British passport) is through naturalisation as prescribed by an Act of Parliament.

Perhaps it is not my claim to citizenship that the HMPO questioned, perhaps they were pondering whether I could be “British by descent” or “otherwise than by descent”. They are quite right to consider this as part of their work procedures but may I please refer you to Chapter 18 of the nationality instructions: volume 1, which states (under paragraph 18.5) that “We should not grant a certificate of naturalisation to a person who is already a British citizen or who has an entitlement to British citizenship under another provision of the British Nationality Act 1981”. This means that naturalised citizens of the United Kingdom are British otherwise than by descent. Moreover, if immigrants could have claimed citizenship via other routes, they would not have chosen the naturalisation path, which is more costly in terms of time and expense. As neither of my parents was/is British, I am British otherwise than by descent.

To this end, I strongly believe the online version of the passport application form is correct because it is able to filter and omit sections of the form that are not applicable to me. However, the staff at HMPO Peterborough requested that I fill sections 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9 and 10, twice! Except section 4, all of these sections are mere repetition of the online form. As explained, I do not think section 4 is necessary nevertheless I did fill section 4 and posted it back. To my dismay, I am now being asked the fill the whole form again.

Standard of service

The correspondence from HMPO Peterborough was unhelpful on both occasions. I shall use quotes from their letters and explain why.

“Unfortunately, you have not filled the whole application form” – I believe I have filled the whole form so the wording is contradictorily confusing, nevertheless there was no explanation of what they meant by “the whole form” – the lack of which leaves me confused as to how best to proceed.

E.g., in the letter sent by M Acamovic on 5/11/2014, if he/she would rather all the information on a single application form instead of online + paper, he did not say so.

My countersignatory is a single mother who works Mon-Fri and goes to the church on Sunday, I too have children and work full time. This means there is limited time we could re-meet for her to countersign the paper form a second time. The demand requested by HMPO for all details to be on a single form puts undue stress on all parties.

E.g., in the letter sent by S Coburn on 10/11/2014, he/she says “you may leave the passport number at 3(a) blank if you do not know this” – unfortunately, 3(a) does not ask about passport number so he has clearly quoted a question from another section. He goes on to say “However you should fill in section 3(b) as fully as possible” – well, I have stated that I possess one uncancelled passport and provided the passport number on the paper form returned to M Acamovic; does Coburn now expect that I fill in passport 2 and 3 despite I only have one passport? Or is he expecting that I may provide a different answer second time?

Overall, my impression is that the Peterborough office has provided a poor and robotic service. There was no human intelligence applied to the treatment of my application. For example,
• a human could conclude that my claim to British citizenship is valid on production of a naturalisation certificate

• a human could write a proper correspondence explaining what section is missing and what additional information is required, and why it is required

• a human could piece together information from the online and paper forms to form a whole picture. Having said that, I do not believe section 4 is necessary therefore the online form should suffice on its own

• instead of the blunt wording, they could have said “…although you have filled an online form, our procedures meant that section 4 is also required. Could you please fill section 4 enclosed”. Alternatively, “…although you have filled an online form, unfortunately section 4 is also required. Our procedures meant that in such cases, applicants will need to fill the whole form again. Could you please fill the whole form enclosed and return it in the pre-paid envelope”

Finally, I am disappointed by the passport application process in general. This is because the online process and the Peterborough office appear to contradict each other with regard to what each defines as a “whole application form”. I acknowledge that the online version is a beta service and by definition needs improvement, potentially. My research of popular online forums reveals that members of the public have been receiving the same experience and treatment following their online application, and this has been the case since early this year when the beta service was introduced. Though I do not believe the online version is incorrect, but if the HMPO thought it is incorrect, then why hasn’t it been rectified?

Desired outcome

Following your investigation, of which I fully appreciate your time and effort, I expect to receive a human response and ideally an invitation to a passport interview because I have provided the required details and supporting documents.

I also recommend that you consider extra training for the staff to improve standards of service. As a British citizen, I care about the efficiency and level of service that our government agencies provide.

Thank you for your time and effort.

Yours Sincerely,

downlights · Post by **downlights** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:31 pm

This is the reply from Liverpool office dated 19 Nov 2014

Dear abc,

I am sorry that you found it necessary to write to complain about the service you have received from Her Majesty's Passport Office.

In reference to section 4 of the application form, parents' details are used in establishing nationality and form part of our first time application process. Please accept my apologies. We are aware of the issue when using the online system regarding section 4 and assure you our systems team are addressing this matter.

Once a new form is received all information on that form is scanned onto the system and replaces completely the original online application. This means we are unable to use the countersignatory details from the online form.

Our records indicate a further replacement application was sent out to you on the 10th November 2014. We will continue with your application once the completed form is returned to us.

Her Majesty's Passport Office will only be in a position to issue a passport once we have concluded all necessary security checks. Our policy and procedures are in place to protect the integrity and security of the document and the passport holders' identity. Once the necessary security checks have been completed on your application, you will then be invited to attend an identity interview.

We aim to provide a high standard of service to our customers and we invest considerable resources in staff training to ensure that customers are dealt with in a professional manner and provided with accurate information about our services. However, we are sorry that we appear to have fallen short of our standards on this particular occasion.

We value customer feedback as a means of improving our service and we are not complacent; we do genuinely aim to provide a high standard of service to customers, albeit that with over 5 million annually, there will inevitably be a few instances where problems or difficulties arise. However, your experience is not typical of the quality of service normally achieved by our staff.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and we assure you that we will learn lessons from your experience.

Yours sincerely
signed by someone from the customer contact team of the Liverpool HMPO

downlights · Post by **downlights** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:35 pm

I appreciate that they have replied and some of the answers are acceptable. However, I am still dissatisfied that naturalised citizens need to provide parents details "to establish their nationality".

Perhaps any guru can comment on this?

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