Possible reasons for non systematic delays?????

Hi there

congratulations to those who have received their approvals and best of luck to those who r still waiting.

Can anyone shed some light whose applications r sitll pending for a long time/short time.

Were these outstanding applications straight forward or did u have any thing which can linger on the process i.e
1. irregular immagration history.
2. Any criminal convictions.
3. Non custodial offencess.
4. U havent disclose anything big/small knowingly/unknowingly.
4. Anything which u think might taking time.

Coz some applications r taking weeks to approve and some r waiting for months n still under consideration/in progress.

So i am trying to establish that what can be the possible reasons for these non systematic delays.
Anyone here to crack it down.

I actually don't agree with the phrase 'non systematic'.
I think HO do have a system where their own system do initial checks and if they clear the applicant, HO approves the application.
If that system highlights further checks are required, then further checks are requested which usually means HO has to contact other government departments.

The thing I don't get is that why HO can't be transparent about these checks? All they have to do is come out and say this the system we use and how it works. I guess there will be too much red tape involved in doing that.

In practice, there is a list of 32 high risk countries whose nationals face tougher action and require extra checks when they arrive in Britain . Imagine an innocent citizen of one of these countries has applied for BC, how long do you think it takes until the HO receives the required information from other governments or agencies about this unfortunate person who is being discriminated against solely on the grounds of his/her nationality or race!!! Moreover, there is a possibility that they receive false info due to many different reasons which hugely affect decision making process...It's a tragicomedy like Waiting for Godot !!

stokbrig wrote:In practice, there is a list of 32 high risk countries whose nationals face tougher action and require extra checks when they arrive in Britain . Imagine an innocent citizen of one of these countries has applied for BC, how long do you think it takes until the HO receives the required information from other governments or agencies about this unfortunate person who is being discriminated against solely on the grounds of his/her nationality or race!!! Moreover, there is a possibility that they receive false info due to many different reasons which hugely affect decision making process...It's a tragicomedy like Waiting for Godot !!

I don't agree with that either.
I myself am from one of those countries and got approval in 2 months. Just today someone from Philippines got approval within less than a month.
We can assume whatever we want but until we actually know what system HO uses, we'll never find out what is there delay on some applicants where others are approved within weeks. My assumptions are based on my experience with CW at a PEO years ago when CW him/herself used to take the application and work on it in front of you.

I applied for naturalization on 2nd December and haven't heard anything, yet there are people who applied a week after me and have got there aprovals.

However I do have a crimal record ( employee theft back in 2003, I got 240 hours community service)
My case might have been refered to another deparment or a senoir case worker hence
I can only assume This MAY be a factor in the delay as it's not a straight forward case.

agree with akhurshid. Dont think nationality makes a difference. A friend of mine from the same country got his in 3 weeks and I have been waiting for 4+ months. I don't have a criminal record and my case is clean and straightforward.

As much as we try to rationalise things, I think we may need to accept that there is a great degree of randomness to the approvals. As akhurshid said - if their computer says Ok, they approve it right away, if the computer for whatever reason says conduct further checks, they put the application in the queue for further checks and this queue is looong...

Guys hese are all assumptions but one thing I have close to my heart is that and akhurshid rightly mentioned is that the HO seem to have a system of intiial checks and if your case is flaggged eve for the slightest issue it gets heaped in a pack for further checks while others are treated with ease.

So I guess most people who haven't received any feedback from the HO fall under the 'further checks' category. Its only annoying as there is no transparency as to what and how these are being done but just mere assumptions on our part.

But the thing is during the ILR process these checks are carried out and sure they would have established that you are clear and only check should be between the your ILR and naturalisation application but hey..this is the HO...

I have resolved to fate and given up worrrying, I recently requested for my travel documents to be returned (life has to continue) for business travels as I had submitted these along with my appplication via a solicitor.

@Trahman007 you need not worry much because there are loads of people from january/feb/mar/april/may/junne/july who havent received any update on their application and I do feel for them. Its just not right to subject anyone to this torture and for the same fee 906GBP...(its not burger money). One expects better service from these guys at the HO

The Minister for Immigration and Security (James Brokenshire):
The Equality (War Crimes etc.) Arrangements 2013 and the Race Relations (Northern Ireland) (War Crimes etc.) Arrangements 2013 enable me to subject applications from certain nationalities for British citizenship to more rigorous scrutiny than others for the purposes of determining whether the applicant has committed, been complicit in the commission of, or otherwise been associated with, the commission of war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide.
The condition for subjecting these applications to more rigorous scrutiny is that the applicant is a national of a state specified on a list approved personally by me for the purpose of the arrangements
I have now reviewed and approved this list in accordance with our commitment to do so annually. I am satisfied that the conditions set out in the arrangements are met in respect of the countries on the list.
The arrangements will continue to be reviewed on an annual basis and will remain in force until revoked.

The question is : Do they subject applications from these nationalities for ILR to more rigorous scrutiny ?

akhurshid wrote:I actually don't agree with the phrase 'non systematic'.
I think HO do have a system where their own system do initial checks and if they clear the applicant, HO approves the application.
If that system highlights further checks are required, then further checks are requested which usually means HO has to contact other government departments.

The thing I don't get is that why HO can't be transparent about these checks? All they have to do is come out and say this the system we use and how it works. I guess there will be too much red tape involved in doing that.

Lets assume what 'akhurshid' has said is exactly happening in HO that intial check ok then ok otherwise further checks.

What furhter checks will be done?
what I can imagine of are
1. Immigration history check
HO has everything available on one click. So it should not take months n months to check.

2. Good Character Check
PNC, I bleive that HO has access to PNC so they can check it with one click as well, Even if they have to send it the relevant department even then it should not take months n months coz as an individual if u apply for PNC check then the max ACPO takes r 40 days. Even CRB wont take more than 1 month.

3. HMRC
Again it should not take months n months do get the result from HMRC.

4. Local coucils checks for any defaults on council tax etc.
It wont take ages to get the result either.

If the case is flaged up today for further checks and HO will start all above checks at the same time all will come back within a month or max 2 then why 6 months and in some cases more than that.

If anyone knows any other checks please mention and please comment on my assumptions too.

Note: I am not talking about EEU cases, they are taking more than usual anyways, may be HO has some other checks to do on EEU, I dont have any idea.
but all other cases like teir1, teir2, etc etc

waiz89k wrote:

akhurshid wrote:I actually don't agree with the phrase 'non systematic'.
I think HO do have a system where their own system do initial checks and if they clear the applicant, HO approves the application.
If that system highlights further checks are required, then further checks are requested which usually means HO has to contact other government departments.

The thing I don't get is that why HO can't be transparent about these checks? All they have to do is come out and say this the system we use and how it works. I guess there will be too much red tape involved in doing that.

Lets assume what 'akhurshid' has said is exactly happening in HO that intial check ok then ok otherwise further checks.

What furhter checks will be done?
what I can imagine of are
1. Immigration history check
HO has everything available on one click. So it should not take months n months to check.

2. Good Character Check
PNC, I bleive that HO has access to PNC so they can check it with one click as well, Even if they have to send it the relevant department even then it should not take months n months coz as an individual if u apply for PNC check then the max ACPO takes r 40 days. Even CRB wont take more than 1 month.

3. HMRC
Again it should not take months n months do get the result from HMRC.

4. Local coucils checks for any defaults on council tax etc.
It wont take ages to get the result either.

If the case is flaged up today for further checks and HO will start all above checks at the same time all will come back within a month or max 2 then why 6 months and in some cases more than that.

If anyone knows any other checks please mention and please comment on my assumptions too.

Note: I am not talking about EEU cases, they are taking more than usual anyways, may be HO has some other checks to do on EEU, I dont have any idea.
but all other cases like teir1, teir2, etc etc

The highlighted two, can take weeks in normal circumstances let alone AN checks.

Anyway good luck to all those waiting.

waiz89k wrote:

akhurshid wrote:I actually don't agree with the phrase 'non systematic'.
I think HO do have a system where their own system do initial checks and if they clear the applicant, HO approves the application.
If that system highlights further checks are required, then further checks are requested which usually means HO has to contact other government departments.

The thing I don't get is that why HO can't be transparent about these checks? All they have to do is come out and say this the system we use and how it works. I guess there will be too much red tape involved in doing that.

Lets assume what 'akhurshid' has said is exactly happening in HO that intial check ok then ok otherwise further checks.

What furhter checks will be done?
what I can imagine of are
1. Immigration history check
HO has everything available on one click. So it should not take months n months to check.

2. Good Character Check
PNC, I bleive that HO has access to PNC so they can check it with one click as well, Even if they have to send it the relevant department even then it should not take months n months coz as an individual if u apply for PNC check then the max ACPO takes r 40 days. Even CRB wont take more than 1 month.

3. HMRC
Again it should not take months n months do get the result from HMRC.

4. Local coucils checks for any defaults on council tax etc.
It wont take ages to get the result either.

If the case is flaged up today for further checks and HO will start all above checks at the same time all will come back within a month or max 2 then why 6 months and in some cases more than that.

If anyone knows any other checks please mention and please comment on my assumptions too.

Note: I am not talking about EEU cases, they are taking more than usual anyways, may be HO has some other checks to do on EEU, I dont have any idea.
but all other cases like teir1, teir2, etc etc

Hello my friend, if you can check the september 2014 applicant named RAJO.. He applied around first week of september and upon calling for update on december and asking for his document,HO send a letter to him explaining that his application is just waiting to be allocated to an CASE WORKER . 2 and half months after he applied his application was just sitting there collecting dust..

Thanks weeman1978

Yes That can be a reason for delay that applications are taking ages to be allocated to a case worker and just collecting dust as weeman1978 said.

Then 2 questions:

1. Then why same months applications are getting approved and rest r just collecting dust. are they just randomly picking up applications and alloting to case workers?

2. what happens If case worker has the application and gone on long holidays, would that application stay on his table waiting for him to come or HO re-allocate it to someone else?

WOW December applicants are getting aprovals (congratulations) and June, July, Aug, Sep, Oct and Nov are still waiting (good luck), That is why I call it non systematic. Same criterea, almost same circumstances then how come someone applied on 5th of Dec and getting aproved on 8th of Jan and someone applied in June or later is wtill waiting.

Thanks weeman1978

Yes That can be a reason for delay that applications are taking ages to be allocated to a case worker and just collecting dust as weeman1978 said.

Then 2 questions:

1. Then why same months applications are getting approved and rest r just collecting dust. are they just randomly picking up applications and alloting to case workers?

2. what happens If case worker has the application and gone on long holidays, would that application stay on his table waiting for him to come or HO re-allocate it to someone else?

waiz89k wrote:WOW December applicants are getting aprovals (congratulations) and June, July, Aug, Sep, Oct and Nov are still waiting (good luck), That is why I call it non systematic. Same criterea, almost same circumstances then how come someone applied on 5th of Dec and getting aproved on 8th of Jan and someone applied in June or later is wtill waiting.

Thanks weeman1978

Yes That can be a reason for delay that applications are taking ages to be allocated to a case worker and just collecting dust as weeman1978 said.

Then 2 questions:

1. Then why same months applications are getting approved and rest r just collecting dust. are they just randomly picking up applications and alloting to case workers?

2. what happens If case worker has the application and gone on long holidays, would that application stay on his table waiting for him to come or HO re-allocate it to someone else?

Again we are all guessing here, but I tend to think it otherwise. I'd have my own example where at NCS desk I realised I made a mistake of not filling in my home postcode. Which I filled in there. And I had double checked my application and was 100% sure I filled it correctly.

So such tiny/irritating mistake can lead to delays where they put it in outbox of 'due to be sent for verification' pile. Which can take time.
Good luck though.

I think the they can do crime check, hmrc check, financial profile check within minutes, and check with other government department in weeks, for instance, seceret service, embassy in foreign country. For most people, I don't think it will take a long time to do all checks.

We know there are 3 steps during the process, case creation, security check and decision making, if you research the FOI response from home office you will find the vast majority of the delay due to "waiting for decision' , the last step. So, is there anyone can explain why one decision can be made with in weeks, and other one takes months?

waiz89k wrote:

akhurshid wrote:I actually don't agree with the phrase 'non systematic'.
I think HO do have a system where their own system do initial checks and if they clear the applicant, HO approves the application.
If that system highlights further checks are required, then further checks are requested which usually means HO has to contact other government departments.

The thing I don't get is that why HO can't be transparent about these checks? All they have to do is come out and say this the system we use and how it works. I guess there will be too much red tape involved in doing that.

Lets assume what 'akhurshid' has said is exactly happening in HO that intial check ok then ok otherwise further checks.

What furhter checks will be done?
what I can imagine of are
1. Immigration history check
HO has everything available on one click. So it should not take months n months to check.

2. Good Character Check
PNC, I bleive that HO has access to PNC so they can check it with one click as well, Even if they have to send it the relevant department even then it should not take months n months coz as an individual if u apply for PNC check then the max ACPO takes r 40 days. Even CRB wont take more than 1 month.

3. HMRC
Again it should not take months n months do get the result from HMRC.

4. Local coucils checks for any defaults on council tax etc.
It wont take ages to get the result either.

If the case is flaged up today for further checks and HO will start all above checks at the same time all will come back within a month or max 2 then why 6 months and in some cases more than that.

If anyone knows any other checks please mention and please comment on my assumptions too.

Note: I am not talking about EEU cases, they are taking more than usual anyways, may be HO has some other checks to do on EEU, I dont have any idea.
but all other cases like teir1, teir2, etc etc

hunanuk, noone here can explain the reasons for these very long delays, because noone actually works in the Nationality department (and even if somebody does, he/she is bound by non-disclosure rules, so they will not tell you.) People can only speculate, based on non-verified assumptions. Like you do, for example, when you think that all checks take little time, including those involving security services or foreign consulates. Is this assumption realistic? I don't think so, but like you, I don't know. Also, you assume that checks related to other governmental departments are very easy to conduct. However, you seem to be unaware that the Government is bound by various data protection rules, and so checks, say, related to obtaining tax information from HMRC may require various clearances and this may lead to delays (I also read somewhere, I think in one of John Vine's reports, that HMRC only processes a small number of data requests from Home Office each months. This by itself may create large backlogs and long delays). Checks may also be conducted by diffetent people with different backlogs.

The bottom line is: let's stop speculating based on unfounded assumptions. We simply do not know how things are done there.

Guys,

You mention that 32 country list. Could you please tell me where I can find this. Thanks

Google and ye shall find!!! Seriously, it is faster to search for things like these on Google than wait for a forum response.

The list of countries whose nationals are considered high-risk is confidential and exempt under Section 27(1) of the FOI Act (information can be withheld where disclosure would, or would be likely to, prejudice relations between the UK and any other State). A speculative list of 44 countries has been posted at https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... _blacklist, but has not been confirmed.

The lists are made under the Equality (Transit Visa, Entry Clearance, Leave to Enter, Examination of Passengers and Removal Directions) Authorisation 2011 and the Race Relations (Northern Ireland) (Transit Visa, Entry Clearance, Leave to Enter, Examination of Passengers and Removal Directions) Authorisation 2011. The lists only require ministerial authorisation and not parliamentary approval and hence remain entirely within the Home Office.

Note that the list is mainly for entry clearance and airport immigration staff. However, it is entirely possible that the HO may be using this internally for citizenship applications.

The above is just a summary of what was found on Google in the last five minutes.

Thanks but first of all I had only time to post here not to look for answers. I thought someone actually can post the countries here.
Secondly even what you linked in does not show the countries...

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... reening--3

What's your husband nationality?

[quote="stokbrig"]https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... reening--3

What's your husband nationality?[/quote]

thanks stokbrig but I still do not see the list

My husband's nationality is Algerian

Stop letting it bother you just let it go.You'r mind can only take so much!

[quote="stokbrig"]Stop letting it bother you just let it go.You'r mind can only take so much![/quote]


He has no court order or any warning/sentence, has been working since arrived to UK so his application is going to be straight forward so I am not bothered. I was just curious
Thanks anyway

Did he apply? Let's hope he's lucky!

There was a FOI request posted a few days ago here that showed that a few individual cases went on for years. Even if for no other reason, it'd be really interesting to know why some take two weeks, one two months, some eight months, and these few individual cases, 1-3 years!