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Absence

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Absence

Post by tirfk » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:37 am

Hi there
I have applied for my BC couple of weeks ago and awaiting result.
I wish to apply for my india born Son (Dec 2010) and my wife's at the same time.
I dont have any issues with my son's but reg my wife's application I have few queries.
We married in Oct 2009 and she arrived Dec 2009. ( it will be 5 years since she been in the UK to this dec)
But due to pregnancy complication she had to go early July 2010 to india and she came back June 2011 to UK. Its all to do with my son born and his passport, his visa all- so she came back after 325days.
after that she been away 2 more times for a span of 92 and 120 days respectively. bringing the total days she is away to 535 days which is more than permissible 470 days.
the reason why she was away 2nd and 3rd time more than 90 days is due to my son's developmental behaviour and his communication skills, she has to spend time with family and work on him.
The recent visit being within the last 12 months for 120 days- so here also she was more than 90 days away in the last 12 months.
what is the chance she will be granted neutralisation in this scenario?
Is it better to wait for my BP to come and then apply on 3 year basis? Even still the 90days in tha last 12 months still a problem.
Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:50 pm

I would suggest that she waits until you become BC and than apply since if applying under 5 years rule she might have problems in proving her 5 year residency.
In that case she is allowed to have been absent for 270 days in total in the last 3 years and 90 days in the final year.
Anything above that and she will have to apply for discretion and she will improve her chances significantly if she states that she has made UK her home, together with her family and that majority of her estate is in the UK.
Absences for over 180 days in the final year will lead to refusal.
I am sometimes wrong.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:57 pm

Thanks Milan69
She still was away for 120 days in the last 12 months- will that not be an issue?

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:16 pm

She has to apply for discretion if absent for more than 90 days in the final year.
I am sometimes wrong.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:24 am

milan69 wrote:She has to apply for discretion if absent for more than 90 days in the final year.
The AN booklet says..
''5. ABSENCES FROM THE UK
To satisfy the residence requirement you should not have been absent for more than 90
days in the last 12 months. If you are married to or in a civil partnership with a British
citizen the total number of days absence for the whole 3 year period should not exceed
270. ''

So does it mean she has to be less than 90 days in the past 12 months and also be less than 270 days past 3 years or Only the later applies (total 270 days past 3 years) - in case she applies after I became BC?
Thank you

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32757
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Absence

Post by vinny » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:30 am

Both (3).
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:36 pm

tirfk wrote:
milan69 wrote:She has to apply for discretion if absent for more than 90 days in the final year.
The AN booklet says..
''5. ABSENCES FROM THE UK
To satisfy the residence requirement you should not have been absent for more than 90
days in the last 12 months. If you are married to or in a civil partnership with a British
citizen the total number of days absence for the whole 3 year period should not exceed
270. ''

So does it mean she has to be less than 90 days in the past 12 months and also be less than 270 days past 3 years or Only the later applies (total 270 days past 3 years) - in case she applies after I became BC?
Thank you
What are the chances of getting the application approved where she has been away for 120days in the past 12months? My son had some speaking difficulties so she was there with family members so as to keep him in the company of kids and family members to improve his speech. Will this reason be valid enough for them to grant the approval? I dont wish to apply and loose my 90% of fees if it gets rejected. Any one with sort of similar scenarios, pls let me know the experiences. If the approval rate in this circumstance is very low- then will it be better option to go through a lawyer??
Any help in this regard is much appreciated.
Thank you

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:38 pm

I was away for 125 days in the final year, I applied for discretion and received my approval within 10 weeks.
I have stated that I have made UK my home, together with my family and that almost all my estate is here.
I am sometimes wrong.

haiksuresh
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Posts: 448
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Re: Absence

Post by haiksuresh » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:23 am

milan69 wrote:I was away for 125 days in the final year, I applied for discretion and received my approval within 10 weeks.
I have stated that I have made UK my home, together with my family and that almost all my estate is here.
To prove the above, what documents we need to provide ? .

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:29 am

You don't have to prove, you just need to state.
If HO wants to have evidence they will ask for it.
I am sometimes wrong.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:00 pm

milan69 wrote:You don't have to prove, you just need to state.
If HO wants to have evidence they will ask for it.
Now that I got my british citizenship and already applied for my son. Once we both have the British passport- will that be sufficient to prove? I tried through 2 councils and they are discouraging to do so as the risk of rejection is high. I spoke to 2-3 solicitors and they are also of the same opinion that I better wait until the end of this year. I dont own a house here - if thats what 'estate' means..

haiksuresh
Member of Standing
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 6:11 pm

Re: Absence

Post by haiksuresh » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:15 pm

milan69 wrote:You don't have to prove, you just need to state.
If HO wants to have evidence they will ask for it.
If HO wants then how can i prove. Do you have any relatives who become citizens in UK ? do you have own house ? I am totally confused.

Thanks,
Suresh

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:03 am

The whole point is to show that you have settled in the UK.
By working, living, socializing, having family, having your kids go to school and have most of your estate here goes into proving that.
Estate is your personal property. You don,t have to own a real estate.
I am sometimes wrong.

Batasha
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 am

Re: Absence

Post by Batasha » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:27 am

milan69 wrote:She has to apply for discretion if absent for more than 90 days in the final year.
Hi Milan,

You mentioned in the above post that she has to apply for discretion if absent more than 90 days in the final year.

In my case I spent 98 days in the final year and 235 days over the last 3 years. So ,do i still need to apply for discretion and if so,how to actually apply for it? In the Naturalisation guidance , it says up to 100 days absence in the final year is normally disregarded ( what does it mean). Please I need your kind and urgent advice as I will apply on 4th February.

Thanks

Batasha

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:40 am

Hi Batasha,
You have to tick the box related to discretion, I will write exactly where once I get back in my office.
If you have 100 days of absences in the final year it means that HO will most likely accept this, however I believe you still have to apply for discretion since you have over 90 days of absences.
In order to strengthen your case you need to state that you have made UK your home together with your family and that most of your estate is here.
I am sometimes wrong.

Batasha
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 am

Re: Absence

Post by Batasha » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:50 am

Thanks Milan.

Please advice where and what to put exactly and in which section. What are the required supporting documents for the discretion ? Shall i submit my husband mortgage statement and house title?

mego_1980
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:10 am

Re: Absence

Post by mego_1980 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:29 pm

Moderators/members we need your valuable advice PLZZZ.

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Batasha,
you have to tick 6.7 regarding discretion and on 6.8 continuing to page 15 this is what I wrote:

"I wish to state that I have made the UK my home together with my family - my wife and 16 year old son who are both British citizens and live in the United Kingdom. With my family, I live in a rented house which is in my name. In addition, I have a large part of my estate in the United Kingdom. In the past few months, due to the nature of my work, I had to spend several weeks working abroad and therefore I am requesting for discretion to be applied with regard to the requirement to have not been absent from the country for more than 90 days in the final year."
I am sometimes wrong.

Batasha
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 am

Re: Absence

Post by Batasha » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:14 pm

milan69 wrote:Batasha,
you have to tick 6.7 regarding discretion and on 6.8 continuing to page 15 this is what I wrote:

"I wish to state that I have made the UK my home together with my family - my wife and 16 year old son who are both British citizens and live in the United Kingdom. With my family, I live in a rented house which is in my name. In addition, I have a large part of my estate in the United Kingdom. In the past few months, due to the nature of my work, I had to spend several weeks working abroad and therefore I am requesting for discretion to be applied with regard to the requirement to have not been absent from the country for more than 90 days in the final year."
Thanks very much Milan

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:09 pm

tirfk wrote:
milan69 wrote:You don't have to prove, you just need to state.
If HO wants to have evidence they will ask for it.
Now that I got my british citizenship and already applied for my son. Once we both have the British passport- will that be sufficient to prove? I tried through 2 councils and they are discouraging to do so as the risk of rejection is high. I spoke to 2-3 solicitors and they are also of the same opinion that I better wait until the end of this year. I dont own a house here - if thats what 'estate' means..
Sorry to be pain again and asking this..

I checked with 2 councils (Fulham and Sutton) and both were a bit hesitant to accept the application as they feel its better to wait than face a rejection. However I booked Croydon to see if my spouse has any fair chances. (She has been in india for 121 days past 12 months)

According to Booklet AN

"Total number of absences normally disregarded only if all other
requirements are met and:
a) you have demonstrated links with the UK through presence of
family, and established home and a substantial part of your estate.
101 – 179 days


According to Chapter 18: Naturalisation at discretion

"5. Excess absences in the final year
5.1 In s.6(1) cases, we should normally exercise discretion over absences
in the final year only if the future intentions requirement is met (see
Annex F). If that requirement is met, and in s.6(2) cases, the
following should apply (NB. Where the applicant is a current or former
member of the Armed Forces, this should be subject to the guidance
contained in paragraph 9.4 and Annex B(i) below):
5.1.1 Total absences not exceeding 100 days - normally disregard.
5.1.2 Total absences of more than 100 days but not more than 180
days where the residence requirements over the full 5(3) year
qualifying period are met - consider disregarding if applicants
have demonstrated links through the presence here of family,
an established home and a substantial part of their estate.
5.1.3 Total absences of more than 100 days but not more than 180
days where the residence requirements over the full 5(3) year
qualifying period are not met - consider disregarding only if:

a. applicants have demonstrated that they have made this
country their home by establishing home, family and a
substantial part of their estate here; and
b. the absence is justified by Crown service (but see also
paragraph 9.4 and Annex B(i) below if the applicant
is/was in the Armed Forces) or by compelling
occupational or compassionate reasons, taking account of the examples at b, c. and d. in paragraph 4.1.2
above.
5.1.4 Total absences exceeding 180 days where the residence
requirements over the full 5(3) year qualifying period are met -
consider disregarding if the criteria in paragraph 5.1.3 are
met.

5.1.5 Total absences exceeding 180 days where the residence
requirements over the full 5(3) year qualifying period are not
met - consider disregarding only in the most exceptional
circumstances and where the criteria in paragraph 5.1.3 are
met (a decision to waive excess absences in these
circumstances should be referred to NPT for noting on
completion).
"

In regards to estate - the below documents clarifies what it means proving estate..

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... annexf.pdf

If this is the case My spouse have good chances?
I have been living in the UK continuously with occasional breaks to india (no more than 2-3 weeks in a year)
I was living in the UK when she was away for 120days.
We have been staying in the same house past 4 years and she has the communications from bank and registered with GP all along.
I have received my British Citizenship and so my Son (hoping soon, under consideration)

I think I have the clear chance of applying now. Else I have to wait until September end.

Any help in this regard will be helpful.

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:23 pm

I perfectly understand your concern since I was in the same situation.
No one can guarantee you that the outcome will be positive as it is up to of the caseworker to apply the discretion . Having said that, should your wife satisfy all the requirements for the discretion to be applied than you have little to worry about in my opinion.
The main requirements is for her to have made UK her home, meaning that she has settled here, is working/housekeeping, having social life and future plans. The second requirement is that she has made UK home together with her family, in this case you who is British citizen and your son who I understand is applying and hopefully will be British citizen soon. The third and last requirement is that she should have most of the estate here. Estate is personal belongings and it is fine to live in rented home, just like I was when I've applied.
Once again, it is not 100% certain that the outcome will be positive but I think she has a very good chance.
The worst case scenario is that you will lose 906 pounds and apply again in September.
I am sometimes wrong.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:27 pm

milan69 wrote:I perfectly understand your concern since I was in the same situation.
No one can guarantee you that the outcome will be positive as it is up to of the caseworker to apply the discretion . Having said that, should your wife satisfy all the requirements for the discretion to be applies than you have little to worry about in my opinion.
The main requirements is for her to have made UK her home, meaning that she has settled here, is working.housekeeping, have social life and future plans. The second requirement is that she has made UK home together with her family, in this case you who is British citizen and your son who I understand is applying and hopefully will be British citizen soon. The third and last requirement is that she should have most of the estate here. estate is personal belongings and it is fine to live in rented home, just like I was when I've applied.
Once again, it is not 100% certain that the outcome will be positive but I think she has a very good chance.
The worst case scenario is that you will lose 906 pounds and apply again in September.
Thanks Milan69
I know what you mean and I think I wish to here more positive but I think one cannot be more positive than what you mentioned above. She doesnt work and just a housewife- but been living here continously since 2011 (with 2 breaks in 4 years of 90 and 121 days) I heard in Croydon they make a direct call to homeoffice and forward only if they think its got a good chance. So hoping for that.
Worst case as you said- loose £906 - unless there is a way to reappeal/ asking to reconsider the decision..

milan69
Diamond Member
Posts: 1103
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: Absence

Post by milan69 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:34 pm

Employment is not a requirement so do not worry about that.
In my opinion NCS should not be making an issue out of this since you are applying by the rules and being able to provide additional proof for discretion to be applied.
I applied through NCS Kingston and had no problem whatsoever with my case and maybe you can go there since it is not that far away.
Please keep me updated about the progress and I wish all the best :)
I am sometimes wrong.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:55 pm

milan69 wrote:Employment is not a requirement so do not worry about that.
In my opinion NCS should not be making an issue out of this since you are applying by the rules and being able to provide additional proof for discretion to be applied.
I applied through NCS Kingston and had no problem whatsoever with my case and maybe you can go there since it is not that far away.
Please keep me updated about the progress and I wish all the best :)
Thanks Milan69- will do. I already booked in for Croydon as they wont take fees unless they wont send the application and for other councils they charge first either over phone or online and then they give the date.
Its stated for 28th this month. Fingers crossed. I will check with Kingston also.

Thank you.

tirfk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Absence

Post by tirfk » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:57 am

Milan- one quick question; if my son (4years old) gets approval- will he be sent the registration certificate or do we need to obtain from the council where we sent his application through?
Thank you.

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