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Totally lost!!! please help!

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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aureliebg
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Totally lost!!! please help!

Post by aureliebg » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:24 am

Hi everyone,
I have been trying for a few days to understand the whole non EU spouse issue and I have to say, nothing makes sense!!
My situation is the following: I am French, married for 3 years to an Israeli. We live in Israel and plan to move to Dublin next month. We are both with education and experience. We need to start working asap as we also have a 15 months old little girl and can't go camping for 6 months. We never lived together in Europe but could go through France to get a residence card there. Is there a specific time frame you need to stay in Europe to justify residency or just having the residence card is enough??Another question, couldn't my husband apply for a regular work permit? At least at the beginning until we figure out all the paperwork?
Please help me through it because it starts to make me very nervous.
Thanks for your help,
Aurelie

BigAppleWoodenShoe
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Location: Cork, Ireland

Post by BigAppleWoodenShoe » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:28 pm

Hello Aureliebg!

There are a lot of posting that address this question, so you can read through them on this forum. I am an American who went through the process, with my Dutch husband. We were married before coming to Ireland which is a big plus! We also have advanced degrees, so our situation is somewhat similar.

I know you are confused, but you must understand before you make the jump to Ireland that getting a residence card for your husband is going to be tricky. Since you are French, you will be able to stay in Ireland without any issues. However, your husband will have to apply for an Irish residence card using the EU1 form. This process may take up to 9 to 12 months before you get an answer! I waited over 7 months.

During that time, your husband is "technically" permitted to remain in Ireland. However, if you are leaving the country while waiting before he has been granted residence, he may be hassled at customs. During this time, your husband will not be permitted to work.

You should be aware that if your husband does not obtain a French residence card prior to coming here, there is a good chance that his application for residence will be DENIED. Yes, even though you are married with children. Irish government mandates that a spouse of an EU citizen must have residence in another EU country prior to coming to Ireland. This decision was just ruled on in the Irish supreme court. I think as long as he has a French residence card, he should be fine.

However, if you cannot get a French residence card for some reason, bear in mind that because you were married for several years prior to coming to Ireland, there is a possibility that your husband may not be denied. If you fortunate, some of us (myself included) were granted a Stamp 4 Visa for 2 years...which gives your husband permission to reside and work in Ireland. In essence, a Stamp 4 is similar to a residence card but for a shorter period of time.

If he can get a work permit through a place of employment, that's great. Not every employer is willing to provide that, though. However, trying to get a work permit through your EU spouse has been suspended as well, so he cannot get a work permit through you.

IMPORTANT: When you apply with the EU-1 form, even though they don't ask for it, give any other documentation you feel will support your case. Also, definitely submit copy of private insurance cards...I hear that again and again that you should send in those. If you have the money, you may want to consider hiring legal represenation.

Hope this makes sense. If not, PM me. I wish you and your family all the best through this pain in the arse process!!! :) :) :)
Dutch husband, American wife, applied for a residence card, after 7 months got a Stamp 4 visa for two years. :)

archigabe
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Location: Dublin

Post by archigabe » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:08 pm

BigAppleWoodenShoe wrote: This decision was just ruled on in the Irish supreme court. I think as long as he has a French residence card, he should be fine.
As far as I know, the decision has not been validated in the Supreme Court, and they are appealing the high court decision...some people who used a solicitor to send in their applications for a residence card seem to have received the 2 year stamp4...My advice for you would be to move to the UK or Northern Ireland (part of the UK). They are more advanced and straightforward in dealing with immigration and the Irish seem to stuck in the last century...they are definitely not a part of Modern Europe. If you are really keen on coming to Ireland, then a residence card from France should make it easier...bear in mind he would still have to wait for atleast 6 months for the Irish Government to issue him with a residence card .
The Supreme Court is going to decide on this in October, so you could wait till then to see which way the wind blows. Best wishes for your move!

aureliebg
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thank you both for your answers.

Post by aureliebg » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:22 am

I understand that the decisions and the processing time is totally random. We're not looking into staying in Ireland forever, we set ourselves a two year period so a stamp 4 for 2 years would be more than fine.
I'm still trying to figure out the French way to residence card :? and Archigabe, I don't think the Irish administration is the last remain of last century, :lol:
Anyway, we will travel to Dublin next month, try to follow the decisions, and will try to get an employer who would be interested enough in my husband that he will do the paperwork.
We will probably take legal representation anyway, I think it's a must when the administration is inconsistant. My husband himself is a lawyer, that might scare them a bit...
Thanks anyway for your answers, for this forum that brought me out of my little bubble :wink: for better and for worse.
Aurelie

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:33 am

Residence card for France should not be much of a problem. A friends of ours received his 'carte de sejour' in 2 months,but the drawback is that he had to attend 'integration classes'. He was eligible for benefits as soon as he applied.

On the other hand Ireland is in chaos...not enough places in schools&hospitals, sky-high rents,whimsical/crazy immigration officials with no uniform policy on immigration...for eg.spouses of European citizens have been waiting for a year without being able to work or find any settlement...the people who received the 2 year stamp4 are a very very small minority, that too after a 6month wait in most cases.Enter at your own risk, especially if you have children :?

aureliebg
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Archigabe

Post by aureliebg » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:27 am

That's really not the idea I had about Ireland. You seem to say that it wouldn't be wise to get to Ireland at all. Thank you for being so straightforward.
Last precision, you say that with the French residence card it would be ok? Or would we still be at risk?? We probably could stay in France for a while, while I would be looking for a job in Dublin in the meantime, if it is only two months. I have to talk to my brother, his wife is japanese and they went through the immigration process in France.
I also want to call the Irish embassy here in tel aviv, but what should I ask???
We still didn't take our tickets, so the sky is still open!!
Thanks
Aurelie

aureliebg
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another thing

Post by aureliebg » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:30 am

Did I dream it or I saw that the non eu spouse should have resided legally for 6 months in another member state???
That way, having the French residence card would only help for half of the problem. Would we need to spend 6 months in France before filing the application in Ireland? Or do both in parallel?

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 am

As long as your husband has a French residence card,he would not be denied a Irish residence card. The problem is that the Irish government takes a long time to process applications and it's usually takes 6 months minimum to process the application during which he cannot work.A lot of Irish embassies abroad don't know the latest in immigration issues...A lot of people received the wrong information from irish embassies in their home countries and have to return home after becoming frustrated here in Ireland.

You can call the Immigrant council Ireland, and Migrant Rights center in Ireland to get their opinion.
www.immigrantcouncil.ie
Information service: (01) 674 0200
Administration: (01) 674 0202
Fax: (01) 645 8031
info@immigrantcouncil.ie

www.mrci.ie
Migrant Rights Centre Ireland
55 Parnell Square West, Dublin 1
Tel: (01) 889 7570
Fax: (01) 889 7579
Email: info@mrci.ie

http://www.integratingireland.ie/
Last edited by archigabe on Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:52 am, edited 4 times in total.

mktsoi
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Re: another thing

Post by mktsoi » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 am

aureliebg wrote:Did I dream it or I saw that the non eu spouse should have resided legally for 6 months in another member state???
That way, having the French residence card would only help for half of the problem. Would we need to spend 6 months in France before filing the application in Ireland? Or do both in parallel?
hi aureliebg

archigabe is right. ireland is very behine or i should say they dont want to change at all. i doubt you will get too much information from the irish embassy in where you are right now. havent you read enough about the 6 month the irish immigration looking for in this forum. a french residence card solve part of you problem. you got that right! if your husband come over to ireland with a french residence card less then 6 months old. it sounds like it to me that you 2 will have to wait for 6 months at least and the irish immigration will send you a letter with section 3 like everybody else in this forum. if you dont believe what people said in this forum and move up here with your husband and try to wait before the irish immigration tell you to get lost.

unless your not looking for a stamp 4 for your husband. he can come into ireland and get a job here as a work permit holder, but the thing is, he has to get some employer to sponsor him. this is one of the option if you 2 really want to live in ireland.

my personal opinion. if you have a choice, go somewhere else unless ireland is the only place you can live on earth!!!!!! dont get me wrong, some of my friends from here are very nice people but just the government. if you trying to get something out from them is a big no no, not in this life time.

aureliebg
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Just had a crazy thought!!

Post by aureliebg » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:44 am

Could I land in France, ask for the residence card, then fly to Dublin and ask there for the residence card and go back to france where we both can work? If I get the French one first, then I just add it to the file in Dublin.
What do you think?

Dimy77
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Location: Monkstown, co. Dublin, ROI
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Re: another thing

Post by Dimy77 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:50 am

aureliebg wrote:Did I dream it or I saw that the non eu spouse should have resided legally for 6 months in another member state???
That way, having the French residence card would only help for half of the problem. Would we need to spend 6 months in France before filing the application in Ireland? Or do both in parallel?
I think that's correct, you need to have resided legally in another member state for 6 months. And when you finally come to Ireland, you need to wait another 6 months at least before the residence card application has been approved (or denied...). As for Irish Embassies... my advice is, don't contact them! The embassies don't seem to be informed at all and give misleading information. The embassies for example don't seem to be aware of the requirement that you need to have resided in another member state at all. I wouldn't trust their information.
I don't want to scare you into coming to Ireland, but for a lot of us it's a long and painful process. Is there any reason in particular why you want to move to Ireland? If not, the UK is probably a better place to go.

archigabe
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Location: Dublin

Re: Just had a crazy thought!!

Post by archigabe » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:55 am

aureliebg wrote:Could I land in France, ask for the residence card, then fly to Dublin and ask there for the residence card and go back to france where we both can work? If I get the French one first, then I just add it to the file in Dublin.
What do you think?
That's a good idea. But he will have to attend 'integration classes' in France, and the Irish government will probably hold on to his passport for a while.
You can call the Immigrant council Ireland, and Migrant Rights center in Ireland to get their opinion.
www.immigrantcouncil.ie
Information service: (01) 674 0200
Administration: (01) 674 0202
Fax: (01) 645 8031
info@immigrantcouncil.ie

www.mrci.ie
Migrant Rights Centre Ireland
55 Parnell Square West, Dublin 1
Tel: (01) 889 7570
Fax: (01) 889 7579
Email: info@mrci.ie

http://www.integratingireland.ie/

aureliebg
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Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:08 am

You're right the Embassy is a joke

Post by aureliebg » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:00 am

just called them, they didn't even try to give me misleading information, they just told me they have no idea!! Great!
No Ireland is not the only place on earth we could live in! We have a great range of choices, we were just appealed by the work market and lifestyle but you're probably all right, it's not worth the fuss.
I still have one month to decide for a destination, I'll look into it then. Too bad, I thought that Ireland was in shortage of skilled and experienced workers, I really can't understand why they make it so hard. Just out of curiosity, if anyone has an idea as to why they do that, I would be interested!!
Thanks for your answers anyway.
Aurelie

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Location: London-ish, UK

Post by Platinum » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:27 am

Ireland, like everywhere else, does need skilled workers. However, the EU1 problem isn't a skilled worker problem. Since you're applying solely based on being a family member of an EU citizen, how skilled you are doesn't come into it. They're certainly not going to make it a policy to only allow spouses who have higher degrees into the country but not others!

The only time being a skilled worker comes in your favour is for one of those mysterious "green cards" or if your skills are sufficiently rare and high-level enough that an employer applies for a work permit for you. If your husband wants to go for one of those, try it. I don't know what the law market is like here.

The thing is, as a professional in Ireland, you could potentially be paid a lot more than almost anywhere else in Europe. I've been looking for work here and in the UK and, in my area (science), the jobs pay much, much better here. The problem is that it's a much smaller economy than the UK, so there were fewer jobs going, and basically none in my specialty.

The administration and government agencies still need some work, yes, but lots of people are coming to live in Ireland. I know Americans, Canadians, British, etc. who have come here, liked it here, and have settled here. Even the overseas Irish are coming back home. You could live well here, if it's the kind of lifestyle you want. I think it was The Economist last year that had Ireland topping the list of best countries to live in. Your buying power here is higher than almost anywhere else. Living here for a couple years will definitely give you a good idea of whether it's the kind of lifestyle you want.

Having said all that, we're leaving for the UK. There are many more jobs there, more choice for us, and it turns out the lifestyle here isn't exactly what I want.

archigabe
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Location: Dublin

Re: another thing

Post by archigabe » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:55 am

Dimy77 wrote:I think that's correct, you need to have resided legally in another member state for 6 months.
I don't think the Irish government is really picky about 6months residency in another E.U country...they only want to see an residence card from another E.U country...
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ght=#82407
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#106277
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=17984
Last edited by archigabe on Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

avjones
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Location: London

Post by avjones » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:56 am

Hi - if you do decide to move to the UK, there are large Jewish communities here, if that would help your husband feel at home.

We are a bi-lingual Hebrew / English household - my other half was born in Tel Aviv, and our toddler son ignores us in both languages (-:
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

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