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Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

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thecoogan
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Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

Post by thecoogan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:46 pm

Hello,

I am a British national and my wife is a Bolivian national. She has a UK residence card and resides with me in the UK. We have book travel to the Czech Republic in two months time. Unknown to me we had to have the marriage certificate certified as part of the requirements for the schengen visa. Looks like we can only get this done in Bolivia.

So, my question are.

1. How strict are the embassies (at least the Czech embassy) on this?

2. Anyone know how this might be possible in the UK, to certify it here?

3. Can my wife apply for the visa as a non spouse? We are happy to pay for the fee.

3. And if so, what's the likelihood of her getting visa?

Thanks
Adam

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CR001
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Re: Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

Post by CR001 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:23 pm

1. How strict are the embassies (at least the Czech embassy) on this? Not sure about Czech embassy, but the Spanish embassy refused to accept my marriage certificate because it had not been certified and Apostilled in terms of the Hague Convention by the authorities in my home country. My embassy in London refused to do and said it can only be done by the issuing authorities head office in home country.

2. Anyone know how this might be possible in the UK, to certify it here? Probably not, see above

3. Can my wife apply for the visa as a non spouse? We are happy to pay for the fee. Yes she can, I did this option for Spain as a general tourist and submitted the paperwork asked for. Easier option tbh

3. And if so, what's the likelihood of her getting visa? If her paperwork and funds are in order, should not be an issue at all in getting the visa
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thecoogan
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Re: Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

Post by thecoogan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:22 pm

Hello,

Thanks for the response. Just a thought, in my wives passport on her spouse visa it says "Spouse of XYZ". Surely that's proof we are married along side my passport she would take with her.

And I assume even tho she is a wife/spouse of a UK national there is nothing that should prevent her from applying as a normal residence?

Thanks
Adam

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CR001
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Re: Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

Post by CR001 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:25 pm

there is nothing that should prevent her from applying as a normal residence?
Correct
in my wives passport on her spouse visa it says "Spouse of XYZ"
Not really relevant as it is the marriage certificate they need - Apostilled.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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thecoogan
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Re: Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

Post by thecoogan » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:28 pm

Ok, shame.

Also, when booking an appointment does she have to specify which kind of visa she is applying for? Or can she go the intention to do the spouse visa and swap to the other?

Donutz
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Re: Schengen visa - Marriage certificate

Post by Donutz » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:53 pm

Sounds like CR001 got screwed by the Spanish embassy.... no suprise there I suppose(the Spanish embassies are known to apply this wrongly as Spain integrated the Directive 2004/38 incorrectly in it's national legislation, the Spanish ministry of foreign affairs is aware of this and does generally respect the Directive 2004/38) , but unacceptable if you ask me.

Officially there is NO absolute need for certifications! One simply needs to proof that:
- the couple is genuinly and legally married (the marriage does not need to be known or registeristed in the country of the other partner, it simply has to be a legit marriage, not one of convience, not be a sham marriage etc. To verify that the couple is indeed married embassies may ask for legalisations, translations and it could help if the marriage is also registered in both countries (read: in the EU) but it should not be something to refuse the application over. Sadly a few embassies are being a bunch of **** and do demand this: the Spanish and French tend to be rather difficult.
- both partners ID themselves so that the authorities can verify that the people before them match those on the maritial papers and are indeed who they say they are (one EU national, one non-EU national).
- traveling together or joining eachother in an other EU/EEA country then the country of which the EU national is a citizen of. this could be something as simple as a written statement by the EU national.
-- thus there is no need for proof of accomodation, proof of transport, proof of sufficient financial means, travel insurance , no fees, no services fees etc.

This can be derived from the Directive itself (which only says there need to be a family relation, not that you need certified/legalized papers etc. or that the marriage needs to be registered in the EU), EU Schengen Handbook for embassy staff (has an entirely section on this, chapter III). Solvit might be able to assist, sometimes an embassies rolls over, sometimes they don't. It is easier if you provide all the fancy stamps and translations but you should be able to proof you meet the requirements by any other means. You're out of luck though of the embassy refuses alternative evidence, refuses to listen to Solvit, then one might only try their luck by complaining to the mnistery of foreign affairs of the country involved or complain to the EU Home Affairs (EU council). The EU operates rather slowely though so any actual changes might be far too late for yourself on your current trip. However without people standing up for their rights embassies will continue to get away with this ***** behaviour.

Useful links:
- http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... dex_en.htm
-- http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... ted_en.pdf
- http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm
- http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF
(change the EN in the url for other languages such as FR for French. CS ("čeština" czech does not seem to be available though).


The handbook (second link) has this to say:
It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have
the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are
covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency ...). Member States may,
however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the
existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof.


3.7. Burden of proof
The burden of proof applicable in the framework of the visa application under the Directive is twofold:
Firstly, it is up to the visa applicant to prove that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. He must
be able to provide documentary evidence foreseen above as he must be able to present
evidence to support his claim. If he fails to provide such evidence, the consulate can conclude that the applicant is not
entitled to the specific treatment under the Directive.

Additional documents may not be required regarding the purpose of travel and means of
subsistence (e.g. proof of accommodation, proof of cost of travelling),which is reflected in
the exemption for family members of EU citizen s from filling in the following fields of the
visa application form: (..)
It's best to apply directly at the embassy, all applicants have right of direct access to the embassy (thus bypassing any external appointed service partner such as VFS), especially EU/EEA applicants, to avoid arguments with incompetent staff. Some embassies have little experience with these applications, let alone the external service partner. If an appointmentsystem is in place the appointment should be granted within 2 weeks of the request, the visa itself should be processed within 15 calendar days of the application.

To answer your questons:
1. How strict are the embassies (at least the Czech embassy) on this? Not sure about Czech embassy, some embassies are very easy, and issue a visa ASAP, with minimum hassle and paperwork as they should, some sadly do not (wrongly instructing people to register the marriage, demanding fancy stamps etc.).

2. Anyone know how this might be possible in the UK, to certify it here? Probably not, but if the embassy is competent and acts in line with the directive there should be no need to (see above information).

3. Can my wife apply for the visa as a non spouse? Yes, but there should be no need to if the embassy applies Directive 2004/38 directive, perhaps re-reading the EU Handbook for Schengen embassies (linked to above). If she does (why???) they would need to pay the 60 euro fee, and meet all the general criteria of a regular visa (not skipping the questions with an * on the Schengen application form etc.).

3. And if so, what's the likelihood of her getting visa? It should be easy, straightforward and entirely free if the embassy knows how to process the application correctly.

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