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Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

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peludao
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Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:59 pm

Hi,

I had 3 Tier 4 visas(2 extensions) between 2010-2013 studying English - English - Travel Tourism level 5.

Now I applied for a Extended student visitor(English language only) as I got 7.0 on IELTS but would like to improve to apply for a visa in another country - for example Australia work visa, where you make 20 points if you get 8.0 or more in each band, with my current IELTS certificate I'd make 0 points as I have a 6.5 in one band.

So I applied and got a refusal(NEVER done anything wrong in the UK or any other country)

1st reason, You have already studied English in the UK, and a course in English, so you "have no reason for that again" <-- with another words. But if 7.0 was all good, I would agree, but is not.

2nd reason, you showed your bank statement with all the money, perfect document translated, and you stated you'd need £9,500 for all the expenses, but you didn't work(didn't provide any documents of it) in the time since you back to your country sep/2013 til now mar/2015 and during your time in UK you had limited working hours. The origin of the money is not clear.

WELL, is not clear but i have support of family and im 30, so I could have some money saved, right?
I find this really ridiculous, as the money is in my account for almost a year. And it was a 30-day statement. So, what else I have to do to show the money is mine?!
Part of this money(majority) my mother gave to me for studies and the other part I made myself.

So, if I studied English before I can't continue my studies and I DO have more to improve.
And money is there but I have to prove how I made that money, or what?! And if I'm rich? or someone gave to me to use?

I believe I should appeal against this. What do u think?

peludao
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:28 pm

Nobody has an idea about it?

ouflak1
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by ouflak1 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:41 am

Were you trying to take the exact same course you'd taken previously (or a practically identical analog)? Have you explained your goal of achieving that score on the IELTS in your applications? If there is a course more advanced/intensive, would you consider taking it? At some point, there is a reasonable expectation of educational progress either driven by yourself and/or your results. I suspect this may be what they are looking for. There are only so many English courses you can take before outside observers can figure that you've either finally picked up the language to a satisfactory level and are ready to move on, or have not picked it up and maybe never will. I personally think that the questioning of your money was a bit petty, but I'm not a case worker so there's not much to do about that except explain exactly where the money came from emphasizing its intention to help you become an expert English speaker.

If it is possible to take the IELTS in your country, you might consider just putting yourself through some intensive training and go from there. I've got some advice along those lines (as someone who has learned to fluency a foreign language in my 20/30's).

peludao
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:07 pm

ouflak1 wrote:Were you trying to take the exact same course you'd taken previously (or a practically identical analog)? Have you explained your goal of achieving that score on the IELTS in your applications? If there is a course more advanced/intensive, would you consider taking it? At some point, there is a reasonable expectation of educational progress either driven by yourself and/or your results. I suspect this may be what they are looking for. There are only so many English courses you can take before outside observers can figure that you've either finally picked up the language to a satisfactory level and are ready to move on, or have not picked it up and maybe never will. I personally think that the questioning of your money was a bit petty, but I'm not a case worker so there's not much to do about that except explain exactly where the money came from emphasizing its intention to help you become an expert English speaker.

If it is possible to take the IELTS in your country, you might consider just putting yourself through some intensive training and go from there. I've got some advice along those lines (as someone who has learned to fluency a foreign language in my 20/30's).
Yes, trying to study general English same school. I didn't explain that goal as I've never thought and done I had to(and got 3 visas before).
Basically I got 7 on ielts and need to improve this mark to get more points in a work application AUS. And I could and would progress indeed, as I need and can improve my English language and marks on IELTS. And I always showed progression when I studied there in the past, but there's still some to go.
And about the money, yes, it seems it's just a reason to deny entry clearance.

In 3 years in the UK I've never done anything wrong in the UK, and now this shi*, seriously I feel they want to keep students away but still want the visa money.

ouflak1
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by ouflak1 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:32 am

peludao wrote:
ouflak1 wrote:Were you trying to take the exact same course you'd taken previously (or a practically identical analog)? Have you explained your goal of achieving that score on the IELTS in your applications? If there is a course more advanced/intensive, would you consider taking it? At some point, there is a reasonable expectation of educational progress either driven by yourself and/or your results. I suspect this may be what they are looking for. There are only so many English courses you can take before outside observers can figure that you've either finally picked up the language to a satisfactory level and are ready to move on, or have not picked it up and maybe never will. I personally think that the questioning of your money was a bit petty, but I'm not a case worker so there's not much to do about that except explain exactly where the money came from emphasizing its intention to help you become an expert English speaker.

If it is possible to take the IELTS in your country, you might consider just putting yourself through some intensive training and go from there. I've got some advice along those lines (as someone who has learned to fluency a foreign language in my 20/30's).
Yes, trying to study general English same school.
I have to say then that I think this is probably what really hurt your application more than anything else. To put this into perspective, there are students who come to England with English language skill probably not all that much better than yours was when you first came to England, and after 3-4 years got a degree in English Literature from an internationally accredited and recognized university.
peludao wrote:I didn't explain that goal as I've never thought and done I had to(and got 3 visas before).
Basically I got 7 on ielts and need to improve this mark to get more points in a work application AUS. And I could and would progress indeed, as I need and can improve my English language and marks on IELTS. And I always showed progression when I studied there in the past, but there's still some to go.
And about the money, yes, it seems it's just a reason to deny entry clearance.
Yeah well I think the money thing was just them basically piling it on. The fact is, from the courses you took, especially the tourism course, two things are obvious from your application. 1) Your English is not bad at all and 2) You never seemed to actually work in the tourism industry or anywhere that required someone having good command of the English language (again which you seem to have). It's not unfair for them to ask, "Are we wasting our time as well as your time and money?"
peludao wrote: In 3 years in the UK I've never done anything wrong in the UK, and now this shi*, seriously I feel they want to keep students away but still want the visa money.
Well you may be preaching to the choir on this point. Having been raked over the coals for some decent coin myself, I'll never question the avarice of the Home Office, and there are many many others on this forum who have gotten it stuck to them for more than I have. That said, I do believe if they really simply wanted your money, they would have just waived you on through and taken your tuition money as well.

Right now things are tough and all immigrant categories are under the microscope of scrutiny, so there is that. But I think in this case they might have a point. I'd consider a fresh application with a different more-advanced course at a different school, perhaps leading to a degree/certification of some kind, and be ready to show the trail of the money paying for everything. I'm not sure an appeal would work, though someone else here with more experience with this type of visa might have a different opinion. You do have an argument. But it kind of boils down to: Are you not getting the score you want because the quality of education is not good enough? In which case, try a different school. Or are you not getting the score you want because of your own failings? In which case, try doing something totally different then. All that in the face of the fact that your English seems quite good, I'm just not sure there is enough to win an appeal here.

peludao
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:57 am

Thanks for replying,

When you say I should try another school, I find THIS strange. After studying in a school that I liked, showed progression, for me, makes all the sense in going to the same institution, no?
And I got my goals, but I don't know if telling my reasons to "improve more" my English will be accepted. But I need it, and it's a real reason.

About the money, I agree with you...but I'd need to send something... I don't know what... maybe a receipt of my mom transaction to me(about 10 months ago!)

I seriously don't intend in, getting work, overstaying or any of this things going to the UK again...I was there in Sep/2013, I wouldn't even have left if that was the case...

Now Im not sure if Im appealing or not, not yet, but it makes me really angry knowing that if don't appeal I simply wasted £150 + some other money in visa stuff.
But I got a new question if anyone knows, please: My course have already started. If I win me appellation, how does this work? I mean, my course dates change? I have to do the process again(for free) or ask for another school letter with new dates?! Because if I lose all the classes til get a new decision, thats not worthy.

peludao
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:01 am

Oh, and I have a degree in Gastronomy in my home country and have worked a little in this industry, all before going to the UK. I sent my certificate and translation with my application.

Greenie
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by Greenie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:11 pm

You can't appeal a student visitor refusal so this is not an option. Your only option is to reapply.

It is not at all surprising that you were not issued the visa as you have already spent a significant time studying English. It would be better to find a course that is specifically designed to get up from around 6.5 to 8 rather than the same course you have studied previously.

If the course has already started you will need to get a revised offer from them or confirmation they can accept you later on the course. You are going to need I explain why you want to study English further but I wouldn't be surprised if you get another refusal. If all you need is 7.0 you might be best placed retaking your ielts for your home country to see of you can improve that competent, or investing in private tuition there.

peludao
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:10 pm

No, I need 8.0 in all bands and i got 8.0 6.5 7.0 7.0.

Also, in the decision paper its written:
"Your right of appeal is limited to the grounds referred in section 84(1)(c)of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002"

This means I can appeal, no?!

Greenie
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by Greenie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:31 pm

It means you can only appeal on limited grounds (human rights grounds) which won't succeed.

peludao
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by peludao » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:40 pm

Greenie wrote:It means you can only appeal on limited grounds (human rights grounds) which won't succeed.
Can you explain me better this?

If it won't succeed what's the point in appealing? or saying I can do it.

Greenie
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Re: Student Visitor refusal - Appeal opinions please?!

Post by Greenie » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:21 am

There's no point appealing if it won't succeed. The appeal will take months anyway. Whether you have the right of appeal (even on limited grounds) is governed by the relevant legislation and the decision maker can't choose who gets a right of appeal or not, the decision automatically attracts a limited right of appeal but that doesn't mean it is worthwhile appealing.

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