Partners EU1 application refused on basis of dual citizen!!!

acme4242 wrote:

walrusgumble wrote:daddy: i would fully agree that it would be better to do six months or more.but the shing case says nothing about how long you have to stay.you can be one day in mainland europe, you are exercising your rights. article 7 provides for students & self sufficency,not just being economic,its a confirmation of old liberal caselaw.but yes, it would be better to get a job for at least 6 months.i am not an immigrant.but expect to know more on zambrano by august.if you have stamp 1,2,3 go to gnib to register now

walrusgumble, yes, this is what it should be.
But as daddy said, the UK don't recognise adult education as exercising
treaty rights for Surrinder Singh route reunification.

They impose the narrowest implementation.

They (UK) don't recognise it at all? Even genuine study (2-4 years in Univeristy)?

How do they get away with that?

It does sound far too good to be true as anyone would then claim to be students. 3 months was defintely way too short and UK would seriously cause suspicion, especially if it caused a trend.

Any links to any cases from the UK courts and Tribunal?

walrusgumble wrote:

acme4242 wrote:

walrusgumble wrote:daddy: i would fully agree that it would be better to do six months or more.but the shing case says nothing about how long you have to stay.you can be one day in mainland europe, you are exercising your rights. article 7 provides for students & self sufficency,not just being economic,its a confirmation of old liberal caselaw.but yes, it would be better to get a job for at least 6 months.i am not an immigrant.but expect to know more on zambrano by august.if you have stamp 1,2,3 go to gnib to register now

walrusgumble, yes, this is what it should be.
But as daddy said, the UK don't recognise adult education as exercising
treaty rights for Surrinder Singh route reunification.

They impose the narrowest implementation.

They (UK) don't recognise it at all? Even genuine study (2-4 years in Univeristy)?

How do they get away with that?

It does sound far too good to be true as anyone would then claim to be students. 3 months was defintely way too short and UK would seriously cause suspicion, especially if it caused a trend.

Any links to any cases from the UK courts and Tribunal?

UK， regulation 9 of the 2006 Regulations
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... ion/9/made

more info in the UK 2004/38/EC compliance study
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/doc_centre/ ... udy_en.pdf

• Non-Transposition and the Surinder Singh principle

Also relevant is Regulation 9 which covers the so-called Surinder Singh scenario of the national of a
Member State returning to their home state having worked or been self-employed in another Member
State and bringing with them (non-EEA) family members. There is a concern whether a
misapplication of the Surinder Singh principle is unjustly limiting the rights conferred by the
Directive.

The AIRE centre reports concerns over “[m]isapplication of the Surinder Singh principle to migrant
UK citizens (e.g., requiring the UK national to have worked or been self-employed elsewhere in the
EU, instead of simply being self-sufficient)â€

In the 2002 ECJ case of D'Hoop , the court did not hesitate to award freemovement rights to a Belgium student who had been rejected a tideover allowance on the basis that she undertook her secondary education in France. It is arguable that the principles in that case might apply to residency cases too.

Monifé wrote:

ImmigrationLawyer wrote:In my experience applications for residency based on marriage to an Irish national are currently taking 4- 6 months. Imho I think a "mega" applicaiton will just draw unnecesary (negative) attention to your case. I would lay low until the marriage and then apply in the normal way to INIS (Mariage to an Irish Nat Section). I don't want to criticise your lawyers but it might have been a better idea to apply as an Irish (not UK) citizen from the start.

Thanks for the advice. Spouse of Irish national application was not an option to us last year as we weren't ready for marriage, hence why we thought we could use the EU treaty rights defacto application, as the Irish defacto is subject to the immigration status/history of the applicant, which in my partners case is not good.

Why our solicitor suggested an application using a few different arguments, is that my partner had received a section 3 notification, which was put on hold pending our case. This is most definitely going to be reactivated, hence why our solicitor said we should make an application including the humanitarian leave to remain aspects and also on the basis of our partnership and soon to be marriage.

What better good are the two passports you hold, one is not better than the other, and a British or Irish passport is value as the same in the United Kingdom and Ireland. Surrender the Irish passport and remain a citizen of one eu country, after all other eu citizen benefit more than the local. Surrendering a passport will not cost more than £120 and rely on your new or old acquire citizenship and your partner can stay.
All eu passports have the same right in all eu states, an Irish and British passport have the same value in both island of Irish and British so what is the need for a dual citizenship as it cannot help.
I hold a French and British passport, I am waiting for their decision and if it goes against me I am ready to surrender their British passport to let my partner stay, to me it is of no good when I cant use eu law if I hold a British passport, I rather stay on my French and use the law after all I will still be considered as a permanent residence for my long stay equal as holding a British passport.
Under habitual residence test, a permanent residence and a holder of the country passport are considered the same, as if a British citizen leave the country for more than 2yrs he/she also lost the habitual residence so it make no difference, the other eu enjoy more than the local in terms of benefit from the government as they can always use eu law against the local state. The difference is that the local cannot be deported and even if you gain national they can take it off you and deport you, that is for people committing crime. As I can see you are not and I am not, moreover criminals are still allowed to stay under the Eu Human right Law.

Obie wrote:In the 2002 ECJ case of D'Hoop , the court did not hesitate to award freemovement rights to a Belgium student who had been rejected a tideover allowance on the basis that she undertook her secondary education in France. It is arguable that the principles in that case might apply to residency cases too.

d'hoop is a confirmation of previous caselaw and regulations+directives that studying in another country is freemovement.eu relies on freedom of education.universities trive on attracting others nationals.article 7 is clear.british tribunals when interpreting chen accepted studying,even primary school.people in denmark who travel each day to work to sweden back n forth are exercising eu rights.what about free movement of services and right to avail of them,see carpeter v uk

rachael, how does that get away from the fact that actual movement is required?ok chen the child was born in uk(ni) and never left uk but was deemed to have excercised eu rights on basis of irish citizens?will the states make an issue of the fact that someone like monife actually for most of her life recognised her irish citizenship n lived here?as for echr and eu law,neither courts give 100% guarantees that a national from one country can't be removed from another country due to criminal offences.uk regulary did and do remove non brits,especially non eu's whose family are british or others. of course you would want to be really bad as an eu to be kicked out of another eu state

walrusgumble wrote:rachael, how does that get away from the fact that actual movement is required?ok chen the child was born in uk(ni) and never left uk but was deemed to have excercised eu rights on basis of irish citizens?will the states make an issue of the fact that someone like monife actually for most of her life recognised her irish citizenship n lived here?as for echr and eu law,neither courts give 100% guarantees that a national from one country can't be removed from another country due to criminal offences.uk regulary did and do remove non brits,especially non eu's whose family are british or others. of course you would want to be really bad as an eu to be kicked out of another eu state

For you to have a dual citizen, you must have somehow or somewhere your history have moved from one eu country or the other, you cannot just sit in one place if your family history have not move and get a dual citizen, you have moved someway or the other, maybe your father or your mother, the fact that we are now using eu treaty right those not stop your history movement. For instance: In 10yrs time from now, children of eu that are studying here in uk will have children and their children will have history of the mother’s or father’s movement even though they are born in uk they acquire dual citizen, then they have moved, this is a lesson for the future of our children to maintain our citizenship. In the case of dual citizen as in McCarthy, they said she is British, if she is no more British, then her history have move here to uk that is why she could acquire the Irish citizen then she is an Irish. The judgment was base on dual citizen, and then if you are no more a dual citizen, what will the law say? Will the law say the treaty right wills not recognized Monife single citizen of British if she is no more an Irish? I don’t think so, the eu law respect your wish to become any citizen you so willing to be and no human right law will say you cant surrender not to be a citizen of one eu country if you so wish. If monife surrender her Irish passport she is no more an Irish, then her single citizen will surely be recognized through the history of how she become a British citizen, maybe when her parents was exercising the treaty right in respect of when free movement started or not, then she has one way or the other moved even though she was born in Ireland, her family have one time move and exercise her treaty right. You can’t live in history of one country and acquire dual citizenship, you must have somehow or some way moved through your parents or others but (only Northern Ireland). An American holding a dual citizen of and American and British even though he/she has never visited or live in uk will be recognized as a British even if he was born in Ireland and hold only one eu citizen and another as an American making dual citizen of not dual citizen of eu countries. Then if that is recognized, a single eu citizen of British Monife will surely be recognized and she has also worked.

rachellynn1972 wrote:

walrusgumble wrote:rachael, how does that get away from the fact that actual movement is required?ok chen the child was born in uk(ni) and never left uk but was deemed to have excercised eu rights on basis of irish citizens?will the states make an issue of the fact that someone like monife actually for most of her life recognised her irish citizenship n lived here?as for echr and eu law,neither courts give 100% guarantees that a national from one country can't be removed from another country due to criminal offences.uk regulary did and do remove non brits,especially non eu's whose family are british or others. of course you would want to be really bad as an eu to be kicked out of another eu state

For you to have a dual citizen, you must have somehow or somewhere your history have moved from one eu country or the other, you cannot just sit in one place if your family history have not move and get a dual citizen, you have moved someway or the other, maybe your father or your mother, the fact that we are now using eu treaty right those not stop your history movement. For instance: In 10yrs time from now, children of eu that are studying here in uk will have children and their children will have history of the mother’s or father’s movement even though they are born in uk they acquire dual citizen, then they have moved, this is a lesson for the future of our children to maintain our citizenship. In the case of dual citizen as in McCarthy, they said she is British, if she is no more British, then her history have move here to uk that is why she could acquire the Irish citizen then she is an Irish. The judgment was base on dual citizen, and then if you are no more a dual citizen, what will the law say? Will the law say the treaty right wills not recognized Monife single citizen of British if she is no more an Irish? I don’t think so, the eu law respect your wish to become any citizen you so willing to be and no human right law will say you cant surrender not to be a citizen of one eu country if you so wish. If monife surrender her Irish passport she is no more an Irish, then her single citizen will surely be recognized through the history of how she become a British citizen, maybe when her parents was exercising the treaty right in respect of when free movement started or not, then she has one way or the other moved even though she was born in Ireland, her family have one time move and exercise her treaty right. You can’t live in history of one country and acquire dual citizenship, you must have somehow or some way moved through your parents or others but (only Northern Ireland). An American holding a dual citizen of and American and British even though he/she has never visited or live in uk will be recognized as a British even if he was born in Ireland and hold only one eu citizen and another as an American making dual citizen of not dual citizen of eu countries. Then if that is recognized, a single eu citizen of British Monife will surely be recognized and she has also worked.

since when did american citizenship entitle you to Citizenship of the European Union? Wasn't there some sort of movement in the case of the mother or Mrs McCarthy? The individual has to exercise the right it is not passed on to generations? How about practicle suggestions as oppose to academic, we are the world suggestions? John F Kennedy's great grand parents were Irish born yet, bar the problem with not being allowed to take additional citizenship, Kennedy and his grandchildren are not entitlted to irish citizenshship - well honourary

Hello Monife,

I'd really appreciate if you can help with our situation.

I am a British citizen through naturalisation.
My wife lives in a country outside the EU and is applying to join me in the UK permanently.
I would like to know how the following background will affect her application.

BACKGROUND
My then girlfriend overstayed her visa for 5 years from 2002 - 2008
She left the UK voluntarily in 2008, over 7 years ago.
We got married in 2013

Whilst living in the UK
She visited GP a couple of times
She never had any surgery done by NHS


I've been a British citizen since 2006
we applied for a spouse visa in 2013. She was refused due to 320(11) and I didnt meet financial requirements
We appealed but judge dismissed only because I didnt meet the financial requirement in june 2013 (no)
She gave birth to our last year august. we applied for our daughter's british passport in Oct 2014 and we got in March 2014 (this delayed my wife's application)


We just applied for her visa last month (April 2015), While waiting for her visa to come thru. I always like to have a plan B, Just incase she gets denied again. I won't mind moving to Ireland just so i can be with my family.
Please can you flourish me with all the required information for me to be able to apply for EU Permit for my wife please.

Hi Lush.

You cannot apply for an EEA family permit while living in the UK unless you hold another EU citizenship (and have lived and worked in that country).

I don't know anything about the British immigration rules so I can't help you there.

You could move to Ireland and apply for an EEA family permit based on your British citizenship but you will need to prove that you can financially support your family i.e. get a job or have a LOT of savings. It should be pretty straight forward to get visa approval to Ireland once you satisfy the conditions.

You can click here for further information.

Oh Wonderful.

We are looking to move to Ireland.
Thanks Monife

Hello again Monife,

really sorry for bothering you.

We are currently waiting to the decision on her UK spouse Visa
If the application gets denied. Is it possible for her to move to move for her to move to Ireland given that our daughter is British. Can our daughter exercise EU Treaty rights in Ireland? but as a minor can she bring her mum in?

In essense, what Im saying is that can she live in Ireland legally as a mother of a minor EU Citizen?

Or I have to move with them?

Thanks again.

It gets a lot more complicated when you apply through a minor or other dependent. You have to have sufficient resources to support yourself and health insurance. If your child is of school age, they need to be enrolled in school before your wife is eligible to live in Ireland, as far as I am aware.

I would advise you to read the Directive regarding the free movement of people in the EU and read the relevant parts thoroughly.

It has been a long time since we attempted an EU treaty rights application so I am afraid I cannot advise you too much as I simply do not remember.

Thanks Monife.