Can we appeal refusal decision againt family visit visa app

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:33 am

Dear all,

Hope all is well .... I know that appeal on visit visas has been abolished but just wondering if their is any way to challange the refusal decision for family visit of my mother ? As this seems to be cat and mouse game with waste of time and money with home office that you keep applying and they keep refusing that you are not genuine visitor and you will not return back to your country as you have stronger ties in UK then in your own country ...... Seriously wtf

Kindly can someone please help if you know any way of challenging their decision as the only thing i can find is human right but that is again on mercy of first tier tribunal.

Please advice anyone

Regards

Rehan

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:55 am

Can you provide more details of your case?

What was the reason for refusal?

What evidence did you provide of your mother's strong ties back home?

What are your mother's ties to the UK?

Has she been refused previously in the past? If so, how often and on what grounds?

Has she ever overstayed a visa in the past?

I personally doubt that refusal of a visit visa engages human rights in any significant way.

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:09 am

Hi simon.... Below is replies to your questions

secret.simon wrote:Can you provide more details of your case?

Family visit visa application from Pakistan .... All 4 kids in UK ... 2 settled, 1 on tier 1 and 1 student. Father passed away in 2012 ..... She is living alone but we have loads of close family their like my uncle aunts .....she visited UK 13 years ago and returned back in time.

What was the reason for refusal?

You have stronger ties to united kingdom then Pakistan.

I m not satisfied you are genuine family visitor ....Paragraph41 (i)(ii)

What evidence did you provide of your family's strong ties back home?

What are your family's ties to the UK?

Explained above

I personally doubt that refusal of a visit visa engages human rights in any significant way.

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:20 pm

rehan01 wrote:All 4 kids in UK ... 2 settled, 1 on tier 1 and 1 student. Father passed away in 2012

I presume (I could be wrong) that she does not have a job to go back to.

With that kind of a family background, I would say that the odds of her ever getting a visit visa are next to nil. I think your family and you will need to travel to Pakistan to visit her.

Incidentally, that is why human rights are not engaged. You have the option to visit her outside the UK. Once you get British citizenship, you can even have her visit another EEA country and meet her there.

Casa · Post by **Casa** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:55 pm

Did you submit any evidence apart from explaining that she has relatives in her home country...such as ownership of property?

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:59 pm

I could be wrong, but I doubt that the caseworkers put much store by ownership of property. If the mother has four children in the UK, she could overstay on a visit visa and live off the rent of property in her home country. The ties to the UK are far stronger than those back home. So, on the balance of probabilities, it would be next to impossible for the mother to be issued a visit visa.

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:10 pm

secret.simon wrote:
rehan01 wrote:All 4 kids in UK ... 2 settled, 1 on tier 1 and 1 student. Father passed away in 2012
I presume (I could be wrong) that she does not have a job to go back to.

With that kind of a family background, I would say that the odds of her ever getting a visit visa are next to nil. I think your family and you will need to travel to Pakistan to visit her.

Yes u r right simon look like that is the only option left now as they are not going go give visa bcz these motherf******** are making money and refusing people and want them keep applying so they keep making monu.

Incidentally, that is why human rights are not engaged. You have the option to visit her outside the UK. Once you get British citizenship, you can even have her visit another EEA country and meet her there.

Yes u r right i am going to apply schenghen visa and i guess it will be easier to get that then geting uk visa.

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:20 pm

secret.simon wrote:Can you provide more details of your case?

What was the reason for refusal?
I am not satisfied that you are genuine family visitor ...... Paragraph (i)(ii)

What evidence did you provide of your mother's strong ties back home?
2 Crore worth of property documents attached.

What are your mother's ties to the UK?

ECO said 4 Kids in UK so u you stronger ties in UK then in Pakistan

Has she been refused previously in the past? If so, how often and on what grounds?
Never refused

Has she ever overstayed a visa in the past?
Never overstayed, Came UK and returned on time

I personally doubt that refusal of a visit visa engages human rights in any significant way.

I dont know if it does engages humans rights or not but i know one thing that this is piss take and these ECO have no idea what they doing and simply robbing people ..... Wish if their was an appeal rights against the decision and face HO representative in court room face to face so i would have showed them how she is not genuine visitor.

Anyway thanks for your replies appreciated

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:26 pm

@Casa thx for the reply ........... yes Submitted property documents which is on her name and that property worth serious amount of money.

Look like its a crime that all are kids are settled in UK and she is alone in her own country.

Also had very healthy bank statement on her own name, attested photocopies of saving certificates on her own name too. Did explain all in covering letter and also mention in sponsor covering letter that ask me what document do you need which will give you satisfaction that she is genuine visitor i am more than happy to give security bond etc etc but they simply dont care.

Casa wrote:Did you submit any evidence apart from explaining that she has relatives in her home country...such as ownership of property?

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:35 pm

Ok its a crime that 4 Kids are settled in UK ?

She is sponsored by a British National and provided all my work documents and bank statements?

Gave them in writing that she will return back to her home country ? Have requested them whatever security you need from me that will give you satisfaction that she will return back to home country after her visit come and talk to me and i will provide you ... eg security bond

Yes they are making it impossible to get visa ..... I wish if their was appeal procedure in place than i would have put them in place for sure .... but nothing much we can do apart from playing this CAT and MOUSE game where we will be keep applying and they will be keep refusing.

regards

secret.simon wrote:I could be wrong, but I doubt that the caseworkers put much store by ownership of property. If the mother has four children in the UK, she could overstay on a visit visa and live off the rent of property in her home country. The ties to the UK are far stronger than those back home. So, on the balance of probabilities, it would be next to impossible for the mother to be issued a visit visa.

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:51 pm

I can appreciate why you are getting het up, but any neutral observer would have come to exactly the same conclusion. So even an appeal process would not have helped. You can always take up a JR and have your day in court, though I think the only people who would benefit are the lawyers.

rehan01 wrote:Ok its a crime that 4 Kids are settled in UK ?

No, but it makes it more likely that she will overstay. That is why she is not eligible for a visit visa.

rehan01 wrote:2 Crore worth of property documents attached.

I'm not sure how much 2 crore is in pounds sterling, but it sounds like a healthy amount to live in the UK on. So I would not put too much store by that.

rehan01 wrote:we will be keep applying and they will be keep refusing.

There is no point in reapplying given that she actually does have stronger links (four children) to the UK than back home. Save yourself the money. She is not visiting the UK any time soon, no matter how many times you reapply. The evidence is against her, whatever your feelings about the situation.

If one of her children is a British citizen, what s/he can do is to move the "center of his/her life" (i.e. family, work, etc) to another EEA country and bring her in via the Surinder Singh route. It is by no means easy, but it will allow you to move her to the UK. If you plan to go down that route, remember that it is under EU rules, not UK law, and if the UK leaves the EU, that option will be gone too. So, hurry up, if you plan to follow that route. Google "Surinder Singh route" and also look under the EEA Route applications forum on this site.

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:07 pm

Thanks Secret Simon for your reply appreciated ............ But my brother who is my mother sponsor is british national and I am settled person in uk myself and will be british citizen in few months .... She got 4 grandchildren who are british too and a daughter in law .................. Anyway dont want to argue but will dig my options for JR for sure as this is not happening they will have to give visa either this way or other and if appeal option was valid I can guarantee you that it will be 5 minutes hearing in court.

anyway thanks once again

regards

secret.simon wrote:I can appreciate why you are getting het up, but any neutral observer would have come to exactly the same conclusion. So even an appeal process would not have helped. You can always take up a JR and have your day in court, though I think the only people who would benefit are the lawyers.

rehan01 wrote:Ok its a crime that 4 Kids are settled in UK ?
No, but it makes it more likely that she will overstay. That is why she is not eligible for a visit visa.

rehan01 wrote:2 Crore worth of property documents attached.
I'm not sure how much 2 crore is in pounds sterling, but it sounds like a healthy amount to live in the UK on. So I would not put too much store by that.

rehan01 wrote:we will be keep applying and they will be keep refusing.
There is no point in reapplying given that she actually does have stronger links (four children) to the UK than back home. Save yourself the money. She is not visiting the UK any time soon, no matter how many times you reapply. The evidence is against her, whatever your feelings about the situation.

If one of her children is a British citizen, what s/he can do is to move the "center of his/her life" (i.e. family, work, etc) to another EEA country and bring her in via the Surinder Singh route. It is by no means easy, but it will allow you to move her to the UK. If you plan to go down that route, remember that it is under EU rules, not UK law, and if the UK leaves the EU, that option will be gone too. So, hurry up, if you plan to follow that route. Google "Surinder Singh route" and also look under the EEA Route applications forum on this site.

therock · Post by **therock** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:55 am

I can't believe someone has given the advice of inviting a family member (elderly person) to an EU country and meet her there???? This is completely unacceptable!

rehan01 · Post by **rehan01** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:39 am

just to update .... we have reapplied using same documents and but did write strong covering letter mentioning everything clearly that I am british national inviting my mother and what ever you need please contact me and ask me i am more then willing to provide you with whatever document you need which will give you satisfaction that she will go back ... So Alhamdulillah reapplied using priority service and my mother got the visa this time .................. big relief after a long battle.

regards

peerzadatauseef · Post by **peerzadatauseef** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:01 am

ASAK Rehan01 and Others,

I am in a similar situation. I applied for a visit visa for my mother (Window, Retired) and it got refused on the basis of weak ties to Pakistan as both of her sons are settled in UK. I have two sisters back in Pakistan but it seems like ECO does not count these as a strong ties.

ECO wrote:
"In applying for entry clearance as a visitor, the onus is on you to demonstrate that you intend to comply with the terms and condition of your visa and that you will leave the UK at the end of your proposed trip. You state that you are a retired widow with a monthly income of 320 from your pension. from the information provided, you have not demonstrated any family ties to Pakistan, further more I note that you have two sons resident in the UK and on the basis of information provided, I am satisfied that your family ties to the UK outweigh and evidenced family ties to Pakistan. In the absence of any information relating to any properties and assets in your name you have failed to satisfy me that you have sufficiently strong ties to Pakistan so as to credibly demonstrate you will leave the UK at the conclusion of your proposed visit."

I am bit confuse about the reason, is it her monthly income, her both son settled in UK or lack of property/ assets in her name ?

She has a property on her name and some National Saving Certificates (property+saving is about 80K GBP). She also get monthly pension of about £320. For government pension schemes, one has to be present physically to prove one is still alive every three months. Hopefully, I can state it as a strong tie. Any suggestion?

Will you be able to share your cover letters and list of documents ?

Any Advice folks?

Kind Regards
Peer

chsakr · Post by **chsakr** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:57 am

Hello Rehan and Everybody,

I am requesting here, to share, how did you show social ties to home country for your mother. Did you get the letters from relatives that they are in touch with your mother or showing property or land in your mum's name, proves that she will return back to take care of her property.

I would really appreciate if you could share your covering letter so, that we get some ideas on how to write a convincing letter. My dad did have overstay at my brother's place in Ireland but, that was for the processing of his dependent visa but, I am not a citizen here and I just want my dad to spend some good moments with his grandchild and want to be with him during my mum's death anniversary also.

please, please share your ideas and important points of your covering letter which helps us too.

Thanks in advance,

Awaiting reply desperately

Regards,

chsakr

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Can we appeal refusal decision againt family visit visa app

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