Naturalisation refused on the basis a deception

I just heard (authentic source) that someone application of Naturalisation was refused.
The reason was given that the applicant has obtained tier-1 (in the UK) and extension by the deception. It appears that HO made a substantive search and it has revealed that the applicant has amended his tax returns after his approval of visa and reduced his liability to pay. His application is now rejected with a right of appeal. The good thing that HO did not revoke his IRL but HO could legally revoke your ILR if you have reached that stage by deception.

So , it is better to sort out any mess before you apply.

Yep they're really clamping down on the Tier 1/2 category I've noticed!!

What is a legal position if you amend your tax documents and pay your tax before a decision made on your Natz application.

guys dont make stupid rumours. ..ony accountant they r try to do do this make mony ...
and how that guy get ilr and after that he is amended tax returns ...

for bennevis
I check ur post u got ilr with employed and self employed income so u dont need to worry I sure ur tax up to date and u got ilr in april 2014 when u r applying british passport

My dear friend

fantastic research , you must be in MI5 or MI6

yes you are right , I got my ILR and waiting for a decision on my Naturalisation (applied June 15)

I got this news (not from an accountant ) but a guy whose application was refused

He had his tax returns good for ILR but had messed up during previous visa applications; HO works sometimes weirdly ; they did not touch his ILR but refused his Nat application on the basis of deception.

HO does extreme search before approving Nats application.

iffi786 wrote:for bennevis
I check ur post u got ilr with employed and self employed income so u dont need to worry I sure ur tax up to date and u got ilr in april 2014 when u r applying british passport

benneviss wrote:I just heard (authentic source) that someone application of Naturalisation was refused.
It appears that HO made a substantive search and it has revealed that the applicant has amended his tax returns after his approval of visa and reduced his liability to pay.

Are there any more details? It seems as though something is missing. Its perfectly legal to amend a return and happens all the time if you or HMRC realise there is an error. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with amending a return and lowering liabilities -- I use the services of a CTA to prepare my taxes (a little more complicated than others since I'm American, have US liabilities and own rental property in the UK), and she amended my 2013-2014 UK return when she filed my 2014-2015 return. IIRC my 2013-2014 liability went down by about £250.

Seems like there is more to this story than simply filing an amended return.

benneviss wrote:I just heard (authentic source) that someone application of Naturalisation was refused.
The reason was given that the applicant has obtained tier-1 (in the UK) and extension by the deception. It appears that HO made a substantive search and it has revealed that the applicant has amended his tax returns after his approval of visa and reduced his liability to pay. His application is now rejected with a right of appeal. The good thing that HO did not revoke his IRL but HO could legally revoke your ILR if you have reached that stage by deception.

So , it is better to sort out any mess before you apply.

Hi Benneviss,

Well well well what a fantastic news you've just shared on this forum its been almost 15 years I am living here and I am paying my tax every single year please please I beg you to tell me if I can amend my previous tax returns and can have some money back I don't care about BC if I get 70 or 80 grand back from HMRC, if I'll get this kind of sums back my life is sorted for another couple of years.

WHAT A CHUMP !!!!!!!!!! Benneviss

I am working as a Corporate Finance and Senior Management accounts and Corporate Tax consultant in the London City for one of the top investment banks and also a regular member of this blog as well.

If you are claiming that the BC is refused on the basis of deception than why the ILR remains intact there's no half rule a deception is a crime and there's no half crime a crime is a crime and that person must have been kicked out from the UK by now if this what happens and if it happens is true other wise your post is baseless and you are just trying to do SCAREMONGERING trying to attract replies that's all I can say.

Well Good luck for your BC anyways.

good answer smam
he is jyst making shit story

no one believe

This is possible. For example if you deliberately inflate your income to meet your visa requirements, and then adjust downwards to get your tax back.

Why would they claim deception for naturalisation but not revoke ILR? Possibly because for naturalisation you have no recourse except a reconsideration, which they can simply refuse. To revoke your ILR they'd have to prove deception in a court and that is not so simple.

t123456789 wrote:This is possible. For example if you deliberately inflate your income to meet your visa requirements, and then adjust downwards to get your tax back.

Why would they claim deception for naturalisation but not revoke ILR? Possibly because for naturalisation you have no recourse except a reconsideration, which they can simply refuse. To revoke your ILR they'd have to prove deception in a court and that is not so simple.

+1

This is what has been going on for a while now, time to pay the piper....

Wanderer wrote:

t123456789 wrote:This is possible. For example if you deliberately inflate your income to meet your visa requirements, and then adjust downwards to get your tax back.

Why would they claim deception for naturalisation but not revoke ILR? Possibly because for naturalisation you have no recourse except a reconsideration, which they can simply refuse. To revoke your ILR they'd have to prove deception in a court and that is not so simple.

+1

This is what has been going on for a while now, time to pay the piper....

Hello Benneviss,

I think there has been some truth in what you are saying because i have seen posts from a member called Longresidence here on this forum.
Iffi786 - please check his forum history and get the info

He applied for his ILR on 5 year Tier 1 and was refused due to deception in his tax affairs. He later on claimed 10 years long residence in UK and got ILR. But this year when he applied for his Nats, it was refused and he was banned for 10 years before he can re-apply.

He still some time lurks in the darkness of british citizenship forums......

t123456789 wrote:This is possible. For example if you deliberately inflate your income to meet your visa requirements, and then adjust downwards to get your tax back.

To do this you have to file at least two tax returns with HMRC - your original then the amended.

HMRC won't readily accept an amended return - one that reduces taxes paid and triggers a refund - without some level of proof.

If he's working PAYE what you're describing is impossible. If he's self employed they'll ask for some evidence. So if along with his amended return he's provided forged paperwork documenting income received to HMRC then I'd say its clear he's failed the good character test.

The UK is very civil with respect to tax matters. In the US if someone files false tax returns its a criminal matter.

Hi All,

What I really think that this post should be locked or delete because all its doing is creating a kiosk here its not really helping anyone. We all come here for help not to get more confuse.

Regards

DAC000 wrote:

t123456789 wrote:This is possible. For example if you deliberately inflate your income to meet your visa requirements, and then adjust downwards to get your tax back.

To do this you have to file at least two tax returns with HMRC - your original then the amended.

HMRC won't readily accept an amended return - one that reduces taxes paid and triggers a refund - without some level of proof.

If he's working PAYE what you're describing is impossible. If he's self employed they'll ask for some evidence. So if along with his amended return he's provided forged paperwork documenting income received to HMRC then I'd say its clear he's failed the good character test.

The UK is very civil with respect to tax matters. In the US if someone files false tax returns its a criminal matter.

I wouldn't say impossible, but unusual. There was a guy asking about it in the ILR forum. Basically the company paid his PAYE as if his income was higher. HO discovered the scam and asked for more proof, ie bank statements which obviously didn't match the claimed income.

There was another more unlucky person whose company gave him payslips and claimed they were paying PAYE, but never did. When the HO takes a look, it seems you've been lying on your application.

But generally speaking, I don't think the HO care if you adjust your income or whatever. It's when you inflate income to gain a visa you're not originally entitled to.

+1

t123456789 wrote:This is possible. For example if you deliberately inflate your income to meet your visa requirements, and then adjust downwards to get your tax back.

Why would they claim deception for naturalisation but not revoke ILR? Possibly because for naturalisation you have no recourse except a reconsideration, which they can simply refuse. To revoke your ILR they'd have to prove deception in a court and that is not so simple.

t123456789 wrote: I wouldn't say impossible, but unusual. There was a guy asking about it in the ILR forum. Basically the company paid his PAYE as if his income was higher. HO discovered the scam and asked for more proof, ie bank statements which obviously didn't match the claimed income.

Wow, yes, that would be possible, but hopefully they'd go after the company doing it as well? The company employing him would have to fiddle their accounts to reflect higher wages paid to the employee, since PAYE was paid at a higher rate. I wonder if later the company would file an amended return as well, and try to claim back higher taxes they paid due to their "error"?

I don't have a criminal mind, the scope of this deception pretty broad. My gosh the stuff that people try on.

Hi

Please accept my apologies for not replying sooner.

I thank you all for your contribution and specially to t123456789 ; you made it very clear that HO do not revoke ILR in those cases as it is easy to refuse Ntzs application rather then revoke ILR.

I am not hear to scare any one but I have indeed came across a case ; I thought it is worth to mention here for sake of the people who got IRL and applying soon for the Natz.

The advice was given to the guy was to sort out his past HMRC accounts.

ilruk84 there is no confusion here ; please pay tax on the figure used to get past visa extension or ILR.

Smam I appreciate your input on this forum and your qualification , work experience etc. You are however not legally qualified and therefore it is unlikely that someone would come to you with a refusal letter.

Good Luck to all

DAC000 wrote:

t123456789 wrote: I wouldn't say impossible, but unusual. There was a guy asking about it in the ILR forum. Basically the company paid his PAYE as if his income was higher. HO discovered the scam and asked for more proof, ie bank statements which obviously didn't match the claimed income.

Wow, yes, that would be possible, but hopefully they'd go after the company doing it as well? The company employing him would have to fiddle their accounts to reflect higher wages paid to the employee, since PAYE was paid at a higher rate. I wonder if later the company would file an amended return as well, and try to claim back higher taxes they paid due to their "error"?

I don't have a criminal mind, the scope of this deception pretty broad. My gosh the stuff that people try on.

From what this guy wrote, the company owners packed up and ran, the entire company was a scam. What he did was pay the company a fee to inflate his salary and he paid the extra PAYE as well.

I thank you all for your contribution and specially to t123456789 ; you made it very clear that HO do not revoke ILR in those cases as it is easy to refuse Ntzs application rather then revoke ILR.

I said they usually won't bother revoking ILR, not that they never will. It's probably too time consuming, maybe if your entire visa application history is based on deception they will. Perhaps in the future they will amend the law to make it easier to revoke ILR if deception is involved.

Thanks for sharing Guys..Really helpfull info..

benneviss wrote:Hi

Smam I appreciate your input on this forum and your qualification , work experience etc. You are however not legally qualified and therefore it is unlikely that someone would come to you with a refusal letter.

Good Luck to all

Well I am not legally qualified you are right and I do accept that.

Well I think if UKVI refused his BC application they must have got some grounds to do that and I think they can use the same grounds to Curtail his ILR as well.

I think to prove you wrong I don't need to be legally qualified any monkey can do this as well.

For your kind information I am a CTA and an ACA qualified if you don't know what these qualifications are then I can explain it to you CTA means Chartered Tax advisor which is the highest tax qualification in the UK so if you are telling me that some one has submitted a Tax return to HMRC and later on changed it and resubmitted an amended version for the same year tax return well well well.

Please tell me that how can I do that just wanted to know this that's all as I said previously I don't care about BC or Naturalization or anything like that if I can manage to get some of my tax back by amending my previously submitted tax returns I'll be more than happy. Bloody BC and Passport will wont give me money.

If you cant prove this than you need to go back and delete your post.

Good luck to all for their BC application.

Hi benneviss,

Can I ask you a question regarding this post?

When you say the applicant amended his tax returns after his visa approval - was this a self assessment return or corporation tax/Company return?

Thanks


Subject: Naturalisation refused on the basis a deception

benneviss wrote:
I just heard (authentic source) that someone application of Naturalisation was refused.
The reason was given that the applicant has obtained tier-1 (in the UK) and extension by the deception. It appears that HO made a substantive search and it has revealed that the applicant has amended his tax returns after his approval of visa and reduced his liability to pay. His application is now rejected with a right of appeal. The good thing that HO did not revoke his IRL but HO could legally revoke your ILR if you have reached that stage by deception.

So , it is better to sort out any mess before you apply.

It was a self-employed one

Bc4indian wrote:Hi benneviss,

Can I ask you a question regarding this post?

When you say the applicant amended his tax returns after his visa approval - was this a self assessment return or corporation tax/Company return?

Thanks


Subject: Naturalisation refused on the basis a deception

benneviss wrote:
I just heard (authentic source) that someone application of Naturalisation was refused.
The reason was given that the applicant has obtained tier-1 (in the UK) and extension by the deception. It appears that HO made a substantive search and it has revealed that the applicant has amended his tax returns after his approval of visa and reduced his liability to pay. His application is now rejected with a right of appeal. The good thing that HO did not revoke his IRL but HO could legally revoke your ILR if you have reached that stage by deception.

So , it is better to sort out any mess before you apply.

Smam wrote:

benneviss wrote:Hi

Smam I appreciate your input on this forum and your qualification , work experience etc. You are however not legally qualified and therefore it is unlikely that someone would come to you with a refusal letter.

Good Luck to all

Well I am not legally qualified you are right and I do accept that.

Well I think if UKVI refused his BC application they must have got some grounds to do that and I think they can use the same grounds to Curtail his ILR as well.

I think to prove you wrong I don't need to be legally qualified any monkey can do this as well.

For your kind information I am a CTA and an ACA qualified if you don't know what these qualifications are then I can explain it to you CTA means Chartered Tax advisor which is the highest tax qualification in the UK so if you are telling me that some one has submitted a Tax return to HMRC and later on changed it and resubmitted an amended version for the same year tax return well well well.

Please tell me that how can I do that just wanted to know this that's all as I said previously I don't care about BC or Naturalization or anything like that if I can manage to get some of my tax back by amending my previously submitted tax returns I'll be more than happy. Bloody BC and Passport will wont give me money.

If you cant prove this than you need to go back and delete your post.

Good luck to all for their BC application.

Dear Smam

I just joined this forum to reply to your post.(I just couldn't resist it)

If you don't have professional competence in your tax knowledge, at the very least, please don't drag professional bodies like CIOT and ICAEW in your post, to prove your argument/view point was correct.

With regards to amending a tax return, it is possible to amend a tax return.

Here are some possible amendments that can be done to reduce previously declared tax liabilities.

1.Normal Amendment
Both Corporation Tax Return (CT) and Individual Tax Return (IT) can be amended within 12 of the original deadline for submitting the concerned return. This can be done online and you don't need any permission or authorization from HMRC. (Whether HMRC will open an enquiry into the amended return or not is a different matter altogether).

2.Amendment to Claim Losses

1. A previous Tax Return can be amended, where an individual makes a loss in a trade, the losses can be set against the previous year's income, immediately preceding the loss making year under S64 Income Tax Act 2007. This can be done by amending the previous return within 12 months of 31 January next following the year in which the loss is made.

2. Similarly,where an individual makes a loss in a trade in the first year of a new trade, under ITA07/S72(1) and (4) this loss can be relieved against their income in the previous three years. So if someone genuinely incur or artificial create such loss in a new business, previously overstated self employed income can be reduced/wiped even after 4 years from submitting the concerned overstated return.

I don't want to do a lecture on tax return amendment here, but for your information, returns can also be amended years after submitting it to set off losses inured when a business cease trading under S89 ITA07.

I hope this reading will give some CDP for your CTA and ACA.

In future, if you don't know even have the basics, please don't drag professional bodies into disreputation to prove you are right, just answer in your personal capacity.

To be honest after reading your ignorant answer, I don't think you are a CTA and/or ACA.

tx123 wrote:

Smam wrote:

benneviss wrote:Hi

Smam I appreciate your input on this forum and your qualification , work experience etc. You are however not legally qualified and therefore it is unlikely that someone would come to you with a refusal letter.

Good Luck to all

Well I am not legally qualified you are right and I do accept that.

Well I think if UKVI refused his BC application they must have got some grounds to do that and I think they can use the same grounds to Curtail his ILR as well.

I think to prove you wrong I don't need to be legally qualified any monkey can do this as well.

For your kind information I am a CTA and an ACA qualified if you don't know what these qualifications are then I can explain it to you CTA means Chartered Tax advisor which is the highest tax qualification in the UK so if you are telling me that some one has submitted a Tax return to HMRC and later on changed it and resubmitted an amended version for the same year tax return well well well.

Please tell me that how can I do that just wanted to know this that's all as I said previously I don't care about BC or Naturalization or anything like that if I can manage to get some of my tax back by amending my previously submitted tax returns I'll be more than happy. Bloody BC and Passport will wont give me money.

If you cant prove this than you need to go back and delete your post.

Good luck to all for their BC application.

Dear Smam

I just joined this forum to reply to your post.(I just couldn't resist it)

If you don't have professional competence in your tax knowledge, at the very least, please don't drag professional bodies like CIOT and ICAEW in your post, to prove your argument/view point was correct.

With regards to amending a tax return, it is possible to amend a tax return.

Here are some possible amendments that can be done to reduce previously declared tax liabilities.

1.Normal Amendment
Both Corporation Tax Return (CT) and Individual Tax Return (IT) can be amended within 12 of the original deadline for submitting the concerned return. This can be done online and you don't need any permission or authorization from HMRC. (Whether HMRC will open an enquiry into the amended return or not is a different matter altogether).

2.Amendment to Claim Losses

1. A previous Tax Return can be amended, where an individual makes a loss in a trade, the losses can be set against the previous year's income, immediately preceding the loss making year under S64 Income Tax Act 2007. This can be done by amending the previous return within 12 months of 31 January next following the year in which the loss is made.

2. Similarly,where an individual makes a loss in a trade in the first year of a new trade, under ITA07/S72(1) and (4) this loss can be relieved against their income in the previous three years. So if someone genuinely incur or artificial create such loss in a new business, previously overstated self employed income can be reduced/wiped even after 4 years from submitting the concerned overstated return.

I don't want to do a lecture on tax return amendment here, but for your information, returns can also be amended years after submitting it to set off losses inured when a business cease trading under S89 ITA07.

I hope this reading will give some CDP for your CTA and ACA.

In future, if you don't know even have the basics, please don't drag professional bodies into disreputation to prove you are right, just answer in your personal capacity.

To be honest after reading your ignorant answer, I don't think you are a CTA and/or ACA.

Hi ,

I don't care if you accept it or not about my qualifications. I am qualified.

This post is baseless people come to the forum to share their true experience and get some good help from the fellow members not to get carried away with any baseless post.

Regarding amending the tax returns I was under an impression that the guy was on PAYE which cant be amended yes Personal Tax returns and CT you can amend them.

I don't care about this if you say don't bring any bodies I'll bring all the bodies if I am qualified from them and yes I am qualified from them so I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY.

You can't challenge any body qualifications if you are not qualified your self or even if you are you just can't challenge my qualifications.

The post is baseless. If UKVI can refuse the Citizenship why they don't curtail the ILR as well on the same grounds so that's just bollocks. there's no such rule in the UK immigration which is half applicable to any one.