Good Character : 3.1 / 3.2

Dear Friends

This is in regards to the question 3.1 / 3.2 in Form AN under Good Character.

I am eligible for the Naturalisation Application on 15.OCT.2015.
I have received the following road related charges in last 2 years:
1. Signal Jump offence with 3 points / £100 penalty on 10.OCT.2015
2. Yellow Box Council Tax PCN on 20.NOV.2014 ;
3. Driving on Bus Lane Council Tax PCN on 28.NOV.2014

Fixed Penalty Notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) do not form part of a person’s
criminal record and will not be considered in the caseworker’s assessment of character unless:
• the person has failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
• the person has received numerous fixed penalty notices

(A) Should i declare all the three offences listed above? - If yes , 3.1 would become (Yes) or (No)?

Many thanks
w pongal

That's what I found

A Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) can be used to deal with minor road traffic offences, but it is not a criminal conviction or a caution.

However, if you are given an FPN for a road traffic offence in Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, and your licence is endorsed, then (in line with s. 58 of that Act) the endorsement is treated as having been given by a court following conviction of the offence and is subject to a 5 year rehabilitation period, from the date the FPN was issued.

Dear Blackstreak!

Many thanks for the reply.

So, I should declare my 3 Pts plus £100 fine
as a YES for question 3.1?.

However, The council issues PCN need not be declared?

thank you
W Pongal

As far as I understand, any endorse able traffic offences should be declared, which result in points given

Hi, I have already submitted my bc application and I have just remembered that I had speeding offence a year ago but I was offered an awareness course, so no point was put on my lisense. I didn't declare it on my application. Should I write to ho and tell them about it or should I not worry as no point was put on my lisense. I am so confused right now. Pls help!

Thanks!

So, FPN should be qualified for 3.1 - YES ; However, it wont be used by caseworker for Character Judgement?.

What happens to PCN - issued by the Council for council-related-offences?. Should that be declared?

w pongal

presido007 wrote:Hi, I have already submitted my bc application and I have just remembered that I had speeding offence a year ago but I was offered an awareness course, so no point was put on my lisense. I didn't declare it on my application. Should I write to ho and tell them about it or should I not worry as no point was put on my lisense. I am so confused right now. Pls help!

Please, could any senior member or guru respond to my query because, I am confused on what to do.

Dear Friends,

This is regarding the 10 year work history rule.

My Entry Clearance was under Tier-1 General in 2009 with a 6 month GAP between the first Entry Clearance and my Arrival into the Country. [ March 2009 was when i was granted ; September 2009 is when i have started residing in UK].

I have been unemployed for 2 months initially when I arrived into the country ; 1 month unpaid leave in recent times ; more-over, 10 years do cover my time outside UK - Should I declare them with proof?.

Many thanks
WPongal

Friends,

any help would be greatly appreciated.

apologies for bothering you all.

Wpongal

You don't need to be working all the time in 10 years. Employment is not a requirement for British Citizenship. This 10 year work history is mainly to weed out people who were working more hours then their visa allow them or to find out people have paid correct taxes and all that BullSh*t.

Don't worry if you were not working for few months. Just think, how will all those housewives and house-husbands get BC otherwise.

Thank you.

If someone was to work in their 14 year long residency before getting ILR, will they count working (paying taxes/NI) as legal or illegal when it comes to BC?

14 years long residency suggests that the person's ILR (under the old rules) had some period of illegal residence in the UK. If he worked (by definition illegally) during that period of illegal residence, I am fairly certain that that breaches the good character requirements and invites a 10 year ban for citizenship. The ban will end 10 years after the person became legal by getting either a limiteed leave to remain, ILR or under provisions of the EEA Regulations.

So in that case, it truly contradicts the rule 'you are eligible to apply for citizenship once you have lived in uk legally for 5 years'?
It's one of HO's new bs rule where they are getting you to admit that you worked, and using that evidence against you. Because you can't omit out your work or lie either, as this would be classed as deception.

User1982 wrote:So in that case, it truly contradicts the rule 'you are eligible to apply for citizenship once you have lived in uk legally for 5 years'?

It doesn't actually contradict anything because eligibility for citizenship is dependent on multiple criteria, not just length of legal stay. Any of those other criteria could delay or completely diminish the possibility of acquiring citizenship.

It's one of HO's new bs rule where they are getting you to admit that you worked, and using that evidence against you. Because you can't omit out your work or lie either, as this would be classed as deception.

The United Kingdom is (still) a sovereign nation. It doesn't have to grant citizenship to anybody, and they can withhold the privilege for any reason they like, or no reason at all, as they see fit. That said, a lot of naturalized citizens, very probably the overwhelming majority, have acquired citizenship without ever having stayed illegally in the UK or otherwise violated the terms of any of their visas.

User1982 wrote:So in that case, it truly contradicts the rule 'you are eligible to apply for citizenship once you have lived in uk legally for 5 years'?
It's one of HO's new bs rule where they are getting you to admit that you worked, and using that evidence against you. Because you can't omit out your work or lie either, as this would be classed as deception.

Can you state the source of that "rule"? I have not come across it.

I think you are confusing citizenship with settlement (ILR status). Typically, ILR is reached after at least five years of legal stay, etc. Even then there are conditions, such as the amount that you earn, etc.

The rules for citizenship are different from those for settlement. One of the standard requirements for citizenship (which as outflak1 points out is a privilege and not a right) is that the applicant must be of "good character". By breaking the law, either criminal or immigration, you have proven that you are not "of good character" and hence citizenship is denied.

The full document:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf

Page 27
9.7 Evasion of immigration control
The decision maker will normally refuse an application if within the 10 years
preceding the application the person has not been compliant with immigration
requirements, including but not limited to having:
a. failed to report
b. failed to comply with any conditions imposed under the Immigration Acts
c. been detected working in the UK without permission

I am talking about part C.

Thanks

secret.simon wrote:

User1982 wrote:So in that case, it truly contradicts the rule 'you are eligible to apply for citizenship once you have lived in uk legally for 5 years'?
It's one of HO's new bs rule where they are getting you to admit that you worked, and using that evidence against you. Because you can't omit out your work or lie either, as this would be classed as deception.

Can you state the source of that "rule"? I have not come across it.

I think you are confusing citizenship with settlement (ILR status). Typically, ILR is reached after at least five years of legal stay, etc. Even then there are conditions, such as the amount that you earn, etc.

The rules for citizenship are different from those for settlement. One of the standard requirements for citizenship (which as outflak1 points out is a privilege and not a right) is that the applicant must be of "good character". By breaking the law, either criminal or immigration, you have proven that you are not "of good character" and hence citizenship is denied.

I understand that and it’s probably the frustration talking…

I was granted LTR (until Jan 2010) prior to applying & granted ILR in Oct 2010. But in-between the application HO asked for the right fee in June 2010, which was paid within 28 days.

Once my conviction driving (occurred June 2009) was spent I applied for naturalisation on June 2014.

After received a rejection letter on April 2015 stating that it was due to breach of immigration laws during my ‘qualifying period’. Upon getting Subject Access Request, I see they have rejected my first SETO application made on Jan 2010 and accepted my June 2010 payment as my application date (this was unknown to me until getting SAR on April 2015).

HO states I will have to have 5 years legally from day I applied, thus mine would be June 2015.

After speaking to a solicitor, we decided to it would be better to apply on Oct 2015 as I would have a clearer 5 years legal stay, as my ILR started 5 years ago. My worry is HO could decide that they will want to go back to 10 year qualifying period.

User1982 wrote:

secret.simon wrote:

User1982 wrote:So in that case, it truly contradicts the rule 'you are eligible to apply for citizenship once you have lived in uk legally for 5 years'?
It's one of HO's new bs rule where they are getting you to admit that you worked, and using that evidence against you. Because you can't omit out your work or lie either, as this would be classed as deception.

Can you state the source of that "rule"? I have not come across it.

I think you are confusing citizenship with settlement (ILR status). Typically, ILR is reached after at least five years of legal stay, etc. Even then there are conditions, such as the amount that you earn, etc.

The rules for citizenship are different from those for settlement. One of the standard requirements for citizenship (which as outflak1 points out is a privilege and not a right) is that the applicant must be of "good character". By breaking the law, either criminal or immigration, you have proven that you are not "of good character" and hence citizenship is denied.

I understand that and it’s probably the frustration talking…

I was granted LTR (until Jan 2010) prior to applying & granted ILR in Oct 2010. But in-between the application HO asked for the right fee in June 2010, which was paid within 28 days.

Once my conviction driving (occurred June 2009) was spent I applied for naturalisation on June 2014.

After received a rejection letter on April 2015 stating that it was due to breach of immigration laws during my ‘qualifying period’. Upon getting Subject Access Request, I see they have rejected my first SETO application made on Jan 2010 and accepted my June 2010 payment as my application date (this was unknown to me until getting SAR on April 2015).

HO states I will have to have 5 years legally from day I applied, thus mine would be June 2015.

After speaking to a solicitor, we decided to it would be better to apply on Oct 2015 as I would have a clearer 5 years legal stay, as my ILR started 5 years ago. My worry is HO could decide that they will want to go back to 10 year qualifying period.

With this clarification of your circumstances, I have to think your lawyer may be trying to fleece you for some money. Hope I'm reading this wrong.

With this clarification of your circumstances, I have to think your lawyer may be trying to fleece you for some money. Hope I'm reading this wrong.
..
..


The solicitor did say that I don't have to apply with him or I can apply by myself or not at all.
But never know the outcome till I try, and given the option (and in this case money) I would like to try.

Is it possible they can put a 10 year bar from the they rejects my application (if it happens then it will be in mid 2016)?

User1982 wrote: The solicitor did say that I don't have to apply with him or I can apply by myself or not at all.
But never know the outcome till I try, and given the option (and in this case money) I would like to try.

I'm trying not to sound snide here, but yes you will know the outcome. It's in black-and-white on the relevant uk.gov websites and you can download the original texts of the laws. Scanning this forum will demonstrate the consistency with which they are applying this new criteria.

User1982 wrote:Is it possible they can put a 10 year bar from the they rejects my application (if it happens then it will be in mid 2016)?

Any awkward exceptions like this would surely have been mentioned in the law itself or with people's experiences on this forum.

Dear Friends

I am applying for my naturalisation with NCS on 07.12.2015.

My Story
2009 March - Tier1 General. English was taught by an University listed in Points based calculator.
2009 September - Entered Uk
2014 December - ILR.

I am referring to the question no 1.22 for English Language.

I qualify under
I met the knowledge of language and life requirement to qualify for settlement on or after
28th October 2013;

However, the Section 2 states.

SECTION 2 Evidence of knowledge of Language and of Life in the UK: required for all
applicants:
• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by the Test
Supervisor; and either
• Certificate showing that you have a speaking and listening qualification in English at B1 CEFR
or higher, or an equivalent level qualification. If you took a test on or after 6 April 2015 write
the number of your qualification at section 1.25 on page 7; or
• Certificate showing that you have obtained an academic qualification deemed by UK NARIC
to meet the recognised standard of a Bachelor’s or Master’s degree or PhD in the United
Kingdom and (i) UK NARIC has confirmed that the qualification was taught or researched
in English or (ii) the qualification was taught or researched in the UK or a majority English
speaking country (other than Canada); or
• If you are awaiting graduation or no longer have your certificate and cannot get a new one you
must send either:
▪ an original academic reference from the institution awarding the academic qualification
that is on official letter headed paper and shows your name and the title of the award. The
letter should also explain when the academic qualification was, or will be awarded; and
state either the date that the certificate will be issued (if you have not yet graduated) or
confirms that the institution is unable to reissue the original certificate of award; or
Form AN Application form (version 10/15) Page 30 of 31
▪ an original academic transcript that is on official letter headed paper and shows your
name, the name of the academic institution, the course title and provides confirmation of
the award;

So, Should I send my original academic certificate which was also submitted during my first Tier-1 General application?


Many thanks,
wpongal

Many thanks!! Much appreciated for the speedy response.

Apologies for the query based out of FAQ section!

What are the chances of NCS at Council Office requesting a language evidence although I am exempt from English Language Evidence due to ILR after 28th October 2013? How do we usually mitigate them?

Take your degree and PBS calculator print out with you and your LIUK pass letter.