Other cases likely to go to Supreme Court along with Kumar

Lex · Post by **Lex** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 am

It is now likely that a number of other cases will be heard by the Supreme Court along with the case of Kumar.
The High Court has indicated that a number of different test cases will be selected to go forward in the next few weeks to a substantive hearing in the High Court.
These cases will involve different fact situations to Kumar eg persons who married in Ireland when they had permission to reside here or persons who were just out of permission when they married.
If these cases are decided in favour of the applicants the State may wish to appeal them to the Supreme Court along with Kumar.If they are not decided in favour of the applicants then the applicants are likely to appeal them to the Supreme Court.
A ray of hope perhaps.

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:31 am

In our experience, the state is desperately trying to keep the cases with a strong possibility of winning out of the courts.We have been offered a settlement out of court and our solicitor tells me they have been calling her all day trying to get us to settle. An interesting fact for people in a similar situation.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:55 am

Be careful if you settle your case that you get an actual EU4 stamp which will allow you permanent residency under EU law after the required period of time.
They may prefer to give you a regular stamp 4 which will not accept that you have rights under EU law.

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:56 am

Do you mean the E.U1 family stamp? thanks for the tip.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:06 am

Permanent residency is your entitlement if you are resident in an EU State under EU Treaty Rights for a period of five years.
Any variety of stamp 4 allows you to be employed in Ireland just be careful that you get a stamp which reflects that you are entitled to reside here under EU law.
If they dont accept that you are legally resident here under EU law then you may have problems getting permanent residence here in 5 years time as you will not be able to produce evidence that you were legally resident here under EU Treaty Rights..

microlab · Post by **microlab** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:38 am

Permanent Residence - EU citizens and their family members may apply, respectively, for a Permanent Residence Certificate or Permanent Residence Card after they have resided for a continuous period of 5 years in Ireland.

The new status of permanent residence for EU citizens and their family members after five years uninterrupted legal residence in the State is lost only in the event of more than two successive yearsâ€™ absence from Ireland or in circumstances where removal procedures have been commenced against the person concerned.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... y%20Rights

It doesnt really say about specific Stamp 4.

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:59 am

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categ ... in-ireland

What stamp will I get in my passportÏ‰

As well as your Registration Certificate you will also receive a stamp in your passport which specifies the duration and the conditions of your permission to remain in Ireland. The following table gives a list of the different types of stamp issued to non-EEA nationals:

Stamp number : Issued to

1 :Persons who have received an employment permit or business permission (pdf)
2 :Students who are attending a recognised full-time course of at least one year. They are permitted to work for 20 hours a week during term time and full time during holidays
2A :Students who are attending a course of less than one year. They are not permitted to work
3 :Persons who are not permitted to work. This includes visitors, tourists, retired people and spouses and dependants of employment permit holders.
4 :Spouses and dependants of Irish and EEA nationals, Convention and Programme refugees and people granted leave to remain. They are permitted to work without an employment permit or business permission.
Stamp4 (EU FAM) :Spouses and dependants of EU nationals who have exercised their right to move to and live in Ireland. They are permitted to work without an employment permit or business permission.

Also
http://www.citizensinformationboard.ie/ ... june07.doc

microlab · Post by **microlab** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:12 pm

Oh... OK.

If they dont accept that you are legally resident here under EU law then you may have problems getting permanent residence here in 5 years time as you will not be able to produce evidence that you were legally resident here under EU Treaty Rights..

So,under which law you`get 2 year stamp then?
People that got it are obviously given because they are dependant of the EU citizen!

Sahil · Post by **Sahil** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:23 pm

microlab wrote:Oh... OK.

If they dont accept that you are legally resident here under EU law then you may have problems getting permanent residence here in 5 years time as you will not be able to produce evidence that you were legally resident here under EU Treaty Rights..
So,under which law you`get 2 year stamp then?
People that got it are obviously given because they are dependant of the EU citizen!

Stamp 4 for 2 years .... doesn't mean that you have given permmission to remain in Ireland coz you are married to EU..... but yes (stamp 4) EUFAM indicates that you are family member of EU citizen.
what DOJ is giving at the momwnt is stamp 4 (permmission to remain) not stamp4 EUFAM. That's the trick they are applying to those who's cases are sattled out of court.

So, be carefull what you are getting.

Regards, Sahil

microlab · Post by **microlab** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:14 pm

Hmm...OK.

doesn't mean that you have given permmission to remain in Ireland coz you are married to EU

So how did one get it?Which law applies there then?

I still dont get argument put by Lex that after 5 years one can have a problems asking for a permanent residence.Thats what I was getting at.

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:30 pm

I think what he was trying to say was that with the two year stamp4 permit they might decide not to renew it...which might leave the holder no rights to claim permanent residence in Ireland which is 5 years minimum legal residence in Ireland.

microlab · Post by **microlab** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:46 pm

I think what he was trying to say was that with the two year stamp4 permit they might decide not to renew it...

That is very unlikely.
On what grounds they could do that!?

Code: Select all

So how did one get it?Which law applies there then?

I have read while back that some "national law" applies.Havent got the link.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:56 pm

It would seem to make sense that the Department would not want to give people a stamp on their passport which recognises that it was granted under EU law.
If they did this then it could be used against them in other court cases potentially especially as they are sticking to their story about the non EU spouse having to reside legally in another member state before are entitled to reside in Ireland with their EU spouse.
I hope this explains things a little better.

microlab · Post by **microlab** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:05 pm

I hope this explains things a little better.

OK.

I was under impression that one can apply for a permanent residence after 5 years of continious residence , regardless which stamp 4 one may have.

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:15 pm

Lex wrote:It would seem to make sense that the Department would not want to give people a stamp on their passport which recognises that it was granted under EU law.
If they did this then it could be used against them in other court cases potentially especially as they are sticking to their story about the non EU spouse having to reside legally in another member state before are entitled to reside in Ireland with their EU spouse.
I hope this explains things a little better.

Yes, it does.Thanks for letting us know.

schwdhry · Post by **schwdhry** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:03 pm

archigabe wrote:
Lex wrote:It would seem to make sense that the Department would not want to give people a stamp on their passport which recognises that it was granted under EU law.
If they did this then it could be used against them in other court cases potentially especially as they are sticking to their story about the non EU spouse having to reside legally in another member state before are entitled to reside in Ireland with their EU spouse.
I hope this explains things a little better.
Yes, it does.Thanks for letting us know.

My wife too had received the 'famous' letter back in September. After a long struggle (I am living in Naas, Co. Kildare, so when I went to Dublin GNIB, I was asked to apply from Naas), I finally managed to get her GNIB card, and a Stamp 3 for 1 year today (somehow I feel relieved, that my wife is no longer 'illegal' here). My question is shall I now get a lawyer and insist for a Stamp 4 or wait until the EU1 decision is made? What would be the general advice?

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:28 pm

I hear that there's a few E.U1 cases waiting to be heard starting from early january. They have apparently broadly classified the cases as Kumar type/Non Kumar type cases.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Other cases likely to go to Supreme Court along with Kumar

Other cases likely to go to Supreme Court along with Kumar