JR AND 10YRS RESIDENCE

HELLO EVERYONE I AM NEW ON THIS SITE BUT I HAVE TAKEN MY TIME TO READ ABOUT HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS MADE.

PLS MY CASE IS ABOUT JR AND 10 YRS RESIDENCE, AM AWAITING A JUDICIAL REVIEW SUBSTANSTIVE HEARING ON ENTERPRENEUR T1 VISA , AND MY DEPENDANT WCH IS NAMED ON MY APPLICATION HAVE COMPLETED 10YRS ALREADY SINCE SEPTEMBER AND I WILL COMPLETE MY OWN 10YRS IN JANUARY 2016 . PLS CAN ANYONE ADVISE ME WETHER I COULD APPLY FOR ILR.

2ND QUESTION, PLS HAVE ANYONE HAD ANY EXPERIENCE ON WINNING JR SUBSTANSIVE HEARING. MY PERMISSION WAS GRANTED ON PAPERS AND THE JUDGE WAS VERY CRITICAL OF THE H/O BUT STILL THEY HAVE REFUSED TO WITHDRAW AND THEY HAVE FILED THERE DETAILED GROUNDS OF DEFENCE.

PLS SENIOR MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM I WILL BE GRATEFUL IF U CONTRIBUTE.
THANKS

Hi,

Please try to use small fonts as it is difficult to read.

Further, please provide more details like your time lines, reason for refusal etc

If you win your JR then your period may be counted towards ILR. Without knowing details would be difficult for anybody to comment.

Good luck and best wishes for your success.

Thanks for your comment , the case has been listed for hearing in january 2016.

Reasons for refusal are , viability and credibility of market research, business plan is not viable. contract not authentic. meanwhile the business is up and running and tax returns filed and business acct submitted with the application they refused. They pointed out i made a mistake in my profit estimates for the years projected. But i have noticed i did make a mistake in the profit estimate for year one but i was never asked to explain anything about this in my enterpreneur interview, they just picked up on this now after i got my permission on papers,

Applied for enterpreneur visa in june 2014

Enterpreneur interview in aug 2014

Refused without appeal in october 2014

Applied for JR in dec 2014

Got permission on papers in june 2015

H/O submitted detailed grounds of defence in oct 2014,

substansive hearing jan 2016

You have been an overstayer in the UK since October 2014. If you have been working since then, you have been working illegally!!

Filing a judicial review does not make illegal stay legal (because a JR does not invoke section 3c protection) - unless the JR review ends in your favour and the judge declares the HO's decision to refuse leave as unlawful.

I read in some posts that you could vary your application is it possible to vary my application once i hit 10yrs?

Cos i will be 10yrs on the day of the hearing.

Pls has anyone had experience on substansive hearing for JR ?

success7 wrote:I read in some posts that you could vary your application is it possible to vary my application once i hit 10yrs?

Yes, it is possible to vary a "pending" immigration application. But, your application ceased to be a "pending" application in October 2014 when it was refused.

Decided applications wrote: An applicant cannot vary the grounds of their application after it has been decided. This is because once it has been decided it ceases to be an application, so there is no application to vary under section 3C.

success7 wrote:Cos i will be 10yrs on the day of the hearing.

You keep stating "10 years" - do note, as things stand currently, (and I repeat) you became illegal about 15 months before you could have completed the "10 years' legal stay in the UK" milestone.

thanks for your comments but i refuse that term ILLEGAL why do you say that ? i have never been illegal and will never be all my applications were done on time even the JR. when you apply for JR you might technically be be asserted as an overstayer but not illegal pls.

i joined this forum for people to give me ideas and not judge. i know i have a Jr right now but will i win my case i promise you i will and i will get my ilr.

success7 wrote:thanks for your comments but i refuse that term ILLEGAL why do you say that ? i have never been illegal and will never be

No one is judging you - just trying to explain the facts that you clearly don't understand.

By definition, illegal = contrary to or forbidden by law.
By definition, an illegal alien is a non-citizen who is present in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization. This could be because they overstayed their welcome (overstayer) or they slipped through the border undetected (illegal entrant).

Overstayer = "illegal" to remain the UK = "illegal" to work in the UK.

So, please don't feel offended by the use of word "illegal". It means the same as an overstayer, in context.

success7 wrote:I read in some posts that you could vary your application is it possible to vary my application once i hit 10yrs?

Cos i will be 10yrs on the day of the hearing.

hi

I will try to resolve your confusion. when someone apply for a visa before expiring his prior to October 2014 he get an appeal right. SO they first go to FTT (first tier tribunal) than upper tribunal. All their time in appeal counts under section 3c. which extend your previous leave by virtue of section 3c.

In your case after refusal u didn't get appeal right by HO. Can u explain why? did u apply after visa expiry or any invalid application?

After refusal u choose to file JR. When u r in JR u r not covered by section 3c. So u r an overstayer while u file JR. HO can issue your removal order and can remove u from UK.

Now u must win JR in order to legalize your stay from your visa refusal date till the day u win JR.



U cannot VARY an application while appeal pending. Make it clear u r not covered by Section 3c.

JR

thanks for your comments.

Can i vary the application once the upper tribunal Judge rules that the decison by the H/O is unlawful thereby decision is quashed .

pls any experience on substansive JR hearing?

Let's try again - an application that has been decided cannot be varied. If the judge rules in your favour - means the application will then have been decided in your favor (by the judge instead of HO). Where is the "pending" application that you intend to "vary"? there is none.

In such case, you will be able to make a "new" (ILR) application.

success7 wrote:thanks for your comments.

Can i vary the application once the upper tribunal Judge rules that the decison by the H/O is unlawful thereby decision is quashed .

pls any experience on substansive JR hearing?

No. U r not covered by section 3c. wait for HO response if they grant u visa (Tier 1 Entrepreneur) than apply New ILR application.

thanks for the comments.

but as you know when a judge rules an application is unlawful it actually means no lawful decision has being taking cos the decision that was previously taken has being quashed which automatically activates your 3c again cos the home office will now be mandated to make a new decision lawfully.

And at that point i believe you can vary your application cos no lawful decision has yet being taken.

success7 wrote:thanks for the comments.

but as you know when a judge rules an application is unlawful it actually means no lawful decision has being taking cos the decision that was previously taken has being quashed which automatically activates your 3c again cos the home office will now be mandated to make a new decision lawfully.

And at that point i believe you can vary your application cos no lawful decision has yet being taken.

U were not covered by section 3c at first place. Why u gone through JR route if u covered by section 3c?

In your case after refusal u didn't get appeal right by HO. Can u explain why? did u apply after visa expiry or any invalid application?

Wow, you are a persistent fellow.

Let me recap what sushdmehta and Zee Ali have advised you, in a slightly different way.

When your applications is being decided by the Home Office or while a refusal of such application is in front of the FTT or UTT
Your status is covered by Section 3C (i.e. your status is legal) and you can vary your application.

When you file a JR after all the above options are exhausted and while such JR is in progress
You are not covered by Section 3C and your status is that of an overstayer. Your application has been decided (which is what you are requesting a judicial review of) and hence you can not vary your application.

If the JR is decided in your favour
As you said, that means that you were legal throughout. But that is a retrospective action of the decision that only applies if the JR is successful.

As your application has been decided, there is nothing to vary. You can file a new ILR application at this point, assuming that you meet the various requirements.

If the JR is decided against you
You remain illegal/an overstayer since the UTT rejected your appeal.

You have argued to the contrary of all of sushdmehta and Zee Ali's advice. Disagreeing with their advice does not make you right or legal in this country. You are, at this point in time, while your JR is in progress, an overstayer. And disagreeing with that does not change the law.

The role of this forum is to offer advice from people who have gone down that path before or people who have knowledge of the path. If you do not like the advice, you are free to walk away. Arguing against it does not change the rules or the law.

secret.simon wrote:Wow, you are a persistent fellow.

Let me recap what sushdmehta and Zee Ali have advised you, in a slightly different way.

When your applications is being decided by the Home Office or while a refusal of such application is in front of the FTT or UTT
Your status is covered by Section 3C (i.e. your status is legal) and you can vary your application.

When you file a JR after all the above options are exhausted and while such JR is in progress
You are not covered by Section 3C and your status is that of an overstayer. Your application has been decided (which is what you are requesting a judicial review of) and hence you can not vary your application.

If the JR is decided in your favour
As you said, that means that you were legal throughout. But that is a retrospective action of the decision that only applies if the JR is successful.

As your application has been decided, there is nothing to vary. You can file a new ILR application at this point, assuming that you meet the various requirements.

If the JR is decided against you
You remain illegal/an overstayer since the UTT rejected your appeal.

You have argued to the contrary of all of sushdmehta and Zee Ali's advice. Disagreeing with their advice does not make you right or legal in this country. You are, at this point in time, while your JR is in progress, an overstayer. And disagreeing with that does not change the law.

The role of this forum is to offer advice from people who have gone down that path before or people who have knowledge of the path. If you do not like the advice, you are free to walk away. Arguing against it does not change the rules or the law.

Thanks SS hope Op understand what we are to trying say this time.

Hi to all, This forum is really great forum in fact , Gurus and Moderators and all experienced members always up to help people . As a human nature sometimes we can't or don't want to accept the truth what it is. I really appreciate of every member's effort to just help each other. God bless to all. @ success7 in my case I applied FLR Fp before my tier 4 visa experied on 1 st March 2015. Having two children born in UK. Elder one 7 years and second one is 2 months old , Elder kid attending since nursery , having student of the year 3 times, playing and learning Rugby for last 3 years having interest in that . Very well involved in society, we had a very strong grounds for FLR FP . But still had a refusal n also received IS96. Now we are long way on JR. Even completing 10 years in Feb 2016, so win JR is only my option . Our Fate is already written, have a faith in God, good luck. Thanks a lot to all.

thanks for all the comments.

since this JR saga i have carried out alot of research on JR and i know all that has been said, but as we know nobody actually wins a JR cos only if the judge gives a mandatory order for you to get a visa then you can say you won a JR. cos most of the time the judge just quashes the unlawful decision and tells the H/O to make another one lawfully. so its actually at the discretion of the H/O to grant visa.

but the big question is? when the decison is quashed and ruled unlawful whats your status? remmember like me i made my app within 28days of dimmisal from ftt. so i made another app within 28days which the h/o treated as valid even though my visa was expired by then but at least i made it within 28days cos 28days of overstaying is alwz not held against you.
let me rephase the question this way an app made within 28days cant it be varied if i never went down the JR route? or

are you covered by 3c when you make an app within 28days of dismissal from ftt?

success7 wrote:
are you covered by 3c when you make an app within 28days of dismissal from ftt?

No, you are not covered by s.3C unless your application is made within time.

The period of overstaying might be overlooked if the application is subsequently granted, but it's not 3C

success7 wrote:thanks for your comments but i refuse that term ILLEGAL why do you say that ? i have never been illegal and will never be all my applications were done on time even the JR. when you apply for JR you might technically be be asserted as an overstayer but not illegal pls.

i joined this forum for people to give me ideas and not judge. i know i have a Jr right now but will i win my case i promise you i will and i will get my ilr.

If a JR is allowed, various things might happen.

The decision might be quashed and remitted for a lawful decision, on the grounds that the first decision was not lawfully reached. This would retrospectively make the time since the refusal lawful, because you would have had 3C leave until a lawful decision was reached.

But as it stands at the moment, without that decision being quashed, you are illegal. That's just the way it is, no insult intended by anyone.

Even if the judge quashes the initial decision, section 3C protection may not come into play - as it seems, based on the ambiguous information posted by the OP, the application being referred to was perhaps an out-of-time application.