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Rea2 or PR or..

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Richard W » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:04 pm

I thought it would all depend on whether the Home Office will check that you were "on the 16th July 2012 a person with a right to reside in the United Kingdom under the 2006 Regulations". If you were applying for a permanent residence card, that test would be made automatically.

However, although on that date your wife was not a qualified person, she may have had permanent residence! This needs to be checked (I am unsure of the law), but it occurs to me that an obvious way would have been if her Irish parent had worked continuously in the UK for 5 years before she was 21.

Amine-medini
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Amine-medini » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:36 am

Hi Richards
In this moment of time
I am non eea national
My wife is Irish national
We have 2 daughters
Legally married
Self suffiscsnt
CSI in place

Will apply for eea(FM)
Problem is can't get her passport
Alternative documents for her I'd
- foreigner birth entry
- registration certificate when we applied the first time
I understand now that she wasn't qualified because of lack of CSI .
So I think we need to start from 0
Would that work
Can't get in contact with her yet therefore the marriage still valid (marriage certificate)
Incomes in form of joint account
What is the problem in me obtaining 5 years RC now and if divorced after that will inform the ho and apply on my own through RoR .

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Richard W » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:53 pm

You can't start from the beginning. If you did, your wife would not be counted as an EEA citizen, but as a British citizen. It is crucial that the Home Office believe that on 16 July 2012, you (i) were entitled to reside under the 2006 regulations and (ii) held a valid residence certificate.

Now, for you to be entitled to reside under the 2006 regulations on that date, either
(a) your wife held permanent residence under the EEA regulations, or
(b) your wife was a qualified person under the regulations - which in your case necessitates having CSI.

(Actually, if your wife had a short-lived job on that date, that would also satisfy condition (b).)

Now, if your wife held permanent residence under the EEA regulations, you too already hold permanent residence! (I'm assuming there are no gaps in her UK residence that you haven't told us about.)

Apart form the British v. Irish issue, what you're suggesting should work - you have a right as a family member of EEA national, and after the divorce you should have a retained right. However, Immigration (European Economic Area) (Amendment) Regulations 2012 Schedule 3 Regulation 2(5)(d) might bite, and nobody else is offering experience or even opinions on the transitional arrangements for British/Irish dual nationals. (Obie's cry of 'utter rubbish' isn't specific enough to count.)

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15156
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Obie » Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:09 pm

Well my statement of utter rubbish was based on fact.

It is nothing personal. You did sought to modify your post, but it is clear that you were getting yourself into muddle.

Firstly there is no basis for concluding that OP benefitted from wrong interpretation of the law. OP'S case appears to differ significantly from Mr Mccarthy. They are not the same case in anyway.

Secondly you went into making assertion that OP became an illegal immigrant, where no support exist in law to support that contention.

The correct legal position is that OP was covered by the transition provision and therefore whatever happen subsequently does not preclude him from succeeding under the regulations .
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Richard W » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:09 pm

Obie wrote:Secondly you went into making assertion that OP became an illegal immigrant, where no support exist in law to support that contention.

The correct legal position is that OP was covered by the transition provision and therefore whatever happen subsequently does not preclude him from succeeding under the regulations .
On what basis do you say that he was covered?

Are you perhaps assuming that he had had a family permit on the basis of his wife and is therefore covered by condition (4), even though the family permit would itself no longer have had any effect? (The OP was present in the UK by 2010, so by 2012 any likely family permit would have expired.) It seems odd that an unappealed refusal made in 2007 would have been enough to preserve a dual national's status as an EEA national, so I'll be surprised if there is precedent for this interpretation.

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Richard W » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:32 am

Richard W wrote:Are you perhaps assuming that he had had a family permit on the basis of his wife and is therefore covered by condition (4), even though the family permit would itself no longer have had any effect? (The OP was present in the UK by 2010, so by 2012 any likely family permit would have expired.) It seems odd that an unappealed refusal made in 2007 would have been enough to preserve a dual national's status as an EEA national, so I'll be surprised if there is precedent for this interpretation.
The way the Home Office guidance on Direct family members of European Economic Area (EEA) nationals – v3.0 resolves the issue (on p46) is to count the sponsor as an EEA national if the family member reached the UK within the validity of a family permit (FP) applied for before 16 July 2012 (whether or not the FP is actually used to enter the UK).

This does actually makes sense. The Home Office wants people to use family permits, but if one was resident in accordance with the EEA regulations on the day of the change, one could also benefit from the transition arrangements by successfully applying for a residence card within 3 months. Permanent residents remained permanent residents.

The OP does not mention having had a family permit, though the dates make best sense if he did have to wait for one (married in 2009, applied for residence card in 2010).

Amine-medini
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:10 pm

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Amine-medini » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:44 am

I am lost in translation in this debate.

Based on all the fact now mentioned in my original post would anyone advice on weather should I go ahead and apply for EEA(FM) now .
Explaining the raison why can't I provide her passport .
Self suffiscsnt with CSI in place .
Yes or no ?
Thank you

Richard W
- thin ice -
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 am
Location: Stevenage

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by Richard W » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:37 am

Yes, apply. If you entered the UK using a family permit, ensure that the fact is mentioned or otherwise clear from the application. (The now expired family permit might even be in your current passport, if it is old enough.)

There are four possible ways that you will succeed:
  1. You held a family permit. Your application should be granted.
  2. Your wife, as an Irishwoman, actually achieved permanent residence before 16 July 2012 in her own right, e.g. by working. As you have been buying CSI, I think this is unlikely.
  3. Your wife, as an Irishwoman, actually achieved permanent residence as a family member of an Irish citizen. I strongly doubt that the Home Office will investigate that possibility on their own initiative.
  4. You held a residence card on 16 October 2012, and the Home Office does not check that your wife was still a qualified person on 16 July 2012.
I believe that if you never held a family permit, your application will be refused unless you present evidence that your wife held permanent residence. However, you may be lucky.

Amine-medini
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:10 pm

Srls suffiscsnt and child benefit

Post by Amine-medini » Wed May 11, 2016 4:17 pm

My eea wife receives child tax credit and child benefits because they are British ,but leur mere ma femme de 7 years also Irish national that's the route we choose to obtain my 5 years residency du to expired ,but our marriage is not great at the moment but couples weeks time will be more clearer I stress there is no ideas if divorce or legaly separated.3 questions I wanted to ask I need quik simple answer even yes it no will help me because I m going through very very hatdmonent we applying for eea(FM) self suffiscsnt money from my salary ,her mum money help all documented on the joint account me and my wife statement CSI I. Place a new one old o e can else be ause of stupidity ignorance and greed bug we took a new one now just before things start to go down hill
I also need to me mentioned that she was incapacitated go work for the first 3 gears of my RC giving birth twice and spent weeks in hospital blood clot or dvt serious medical condition but I do not have any papers work about those record confidentiality fuel
1-benefit for our 2 british childrens problem or not
2-can I carry on working beyond my expired RC following eudoppeen directive if you could pro ide me with a link that I print provided to both my employer and my immigration lawyer would. E fantastic

I am begging you litterly to give me a accurate answer I have so many issues this one represent a tiny chunk of it .iam in desperate desperate moments to haven't seen my 2 beautiful daughters I dunno how I still alive and constant to even compose that message but desperate time need desperate measures

Yours sincerely
Amine medini

Many thanks
3 Chances of success of this kind of Application eea(FM) in my. Case
³,-4 bow can I obtain. Legaly some kind of medical records to show why she never work relying only and me and family?

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Srls suffiscsnt and child benefit

Post by noajthan » Sat May 14, 2016 3:36 pm

Amine-medini wrote:My eea wife receives child tax credit and child benefits because they are British ,but leur mere ma femme de 7 years also Irish national that's the route we choose to obtain my 5 years residency du to expired ,but our marriage is not great at the moment but couples weeks time will be more clearer I stress there is no ideas if divorce or legaly separated.3 questions I wanted to ask I need quik simple answer even yes it no will help me because I m going through very very hatdmonent we applying for eea(FM) self suffiscsnt money from my salary ,her mum money help all documented on the joint account me and my wife statement CSI I. Place a new one old o e can else be ause of stupidity ignorance and greed bug we took a new one now just before things start to go down hill
I also need to me mentioned that she was incapacitated go work for the first 3 gears of my RC giving birth twice and spent weeks in hospital blood clot or dvt serious medical condition but I do not have any papers work about those record confidentiality fuel
1-benefit for our 2 british childrens problem or not
2-can I carry on working beyond my expired RC following eudoppeen directive if you could pro ide me with a link that I print provided to both my employer and my immigration lawyer would. E fantastic

I am begging you litterly to give me a accurate answer I have so many issues this one represent a tiny chunk of it .iam in desperate desperate moments to haven't seen my 2 beautiful daughters I dunno how I still alive and constant to even compose that message but desperate time need desperate measures

Yours sincerely
Amine medini

Many thanks
3 Chances of success of this kind of Application eea(FM) in my. Case
³,-4 bow can I obtain. Legaly some kind of medical records to show why she never work relying only and me and family?
1) CB and means-tested benefit CTC should not be an issue.

2) Yes.
Your RC is optional and simply confirms the right to work - it doesn't grant the right.

The right to reside, work study as dependent of an EEA national/sponsor comes from EU Directive 2004/38/EC.
See:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... V%3Al33152

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

3) Depends on quality of supporting documents as well as your spouse/sponsor exercising treaty rights continuously for 5 years.

4) Contact doctor, hospital and any other relevant medical authorities.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Amine-medini
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:10 pm

COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by Amine-medini » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:36 pm

Hi
Same thing happen to me
COA ( can't confirm you right for employement )
Reason: passeport not valid (expired)
Actually my new passeport was ready I was just waiting for COA to get a case number to send it to that's been done now in June 2016
Application sent 11/05/2016
Payment taken on the 17/05/2016
COA without work June 2016
We are now end of November 2016
I need my COA with right to work more than anything else ,
Is there a way around that . . Requesting new COA
Has anyone done that before
Contacting home office is useless even the deadline of 6 mo this has expired .
Answer is always the same , it's not done yet you need to wait.
Any suggestion
Local mp ? Email ? Phone? Lettre ?
Appreciate any help

secret.simon
Moderator
Posts: 10974
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: COA EFM - no right to work?

Post by secret.simon » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:34 pm

Your earlier posts suggest that you are married to an EEA wife. Why did you then apply as an EFM?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

noajthan
Moderator
Posts: 14911
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:31 am
Location: UK

Re: Rea2 or PR or..

Post by noajthan » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:28 pm

Posts merged.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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