Employee after extention

Hello
As per the new guidance do we need to have two employees after extension for ILR?
If so, can we have 2 employees for the first year and no employees for the second year?

This might help as I got this from guidance but to be honest I am not sure under what circumstances jobs are not required after extension.

Please could anyone advise.

Further leave
170. If your last grant of leave before the current grant was as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) (for
instance, you are applying for a second extension):
 You do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during
the initial period of leave, if the employment created in the initial period of leave was
maintained for 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during your last grant
of leave;
 if the jobs from the initial leave no longer exist, you must show they have created 2 new
jobs which have existed for at least 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement
during your last grant of leave.

Technically you need at least 24 months of full time employment during your extension to be eligible for ILR. Now this can be your current employees working for an extra 12 months AFTER your extension or it can be two new jobs created AFTER your extension.

If so, can we have 2 employees for the first year and no employees for the second year?

Yes

Yes it is hard to figure out what they are asking us to do? Does this mean that we have to now show that we have employed 2 more employees in the UK? Why cant we use the evidence of the ones we employ for the extension? Sick of these rules changing like this making it absolutely impossible to stay in this country!

zimba88 wrote:Technically you need at least 24 months of full time employment during your extension to be eligible for ILR. Now this can be your current employees working for an extra 12 months AFTER your extension or it can be two new jobs created AFTER your extension.

Yes[/quote]

I am not sure that is correct though say in my case I will have completed 13 Months of employment before I apply for my extensions in June does that mean I have to keep the employees in for another 11 months? I am fairly sure that I will have to keep them employed for another 12 months to qualify for ILR. I could be wrong but was this rule included recently or has it been there from the beginning?

I am not sure that is correct though say in my case I will have completed 13 Months of employment before I apply for my extensions in June does that mean I have to keep the employees in for another 11 months? I am fairly sure that I will have to keep them employed for another 12 months to qualify for ILR. I could be wrong but was this rule included recently or has it been there from the beginning?

It is very easy to understand what the want.
First of all, rules have not changed for job creation at all. Based on immigration rules, the job creation requirement for Tier 1E always applies to your LAST period of leave, so for extension you need to satisfy the job requirement during your initial period and for your ILR, you must satisfy it during your extension period. It is really simple, EACH period of grant ALWAYS has the job requirement attached to it.

If you understand what I said above, it becomes clear that you need 24 months of employment in EACH period of leave given by HO, whether initial or extension. AFTER your extension, you MUST create 24 months of employment the same way you did it for your initial period (using your existing employees or new ones)

HI Zimba,

Can you please clarify 24 months,

Do you mean that you need some one employed the whole of 24 month after the extension.

ok so here is the wording from the new guidance notes

3) You have either:
 established a new UK business or businesses that has or have created the equivalent
of 2 (or 10 if applying for accelerated settlement) new full-time jobs for persons settled
in the UK, or
taken over or invested in an existing UK business or businesses; and your services or
investment have resulted in a net increase in the employment provided by the business
or businesses for persons settled in the UK by creating the equivalent of 2 (or 10 if
applying for accelerated settlement) new full-time jobs. The jobs must have existed for
at least 12 months during your last grant of leave unless you entered the route before 6
April 2014. More details on the requirements for employing settled workers can be
found in the previous section on extension applications.

Does this mean if we have the same business running then we only have to show the evidence for 12 month employment from our Extension application? I spoke to someone on the phone to home office and they said the same thing? using the same 2 employees for another 12 months under ILR will be pointless as you have already done that under the extension

Can you please clarify 24 months,
Do you mean that you need some one employed the whole of 24 month after the extension.

It means you retain your previous jobs for at least 12 months from initial period (24 months) or you create two NEW full times jobs for 12 months. If you are under transitional arrangements, you can hire one person for 24 months if you wish or 4 people for 6 months ,... etc. As I said, SAME requirement for extension.

Does this mean if we have the same business running then we only have to show the evidence for 12 month employment from our Extension application? I spoke to someone on the phone to home office and they said the same thing? using the same 2 employees for another 12 months under ILR will be pointless as you have already done that under the extension

NO it will not be pointless as it is allowed . You can maintain your existing jobs AFTER extension for another 12 months and qualify for ILR without creating any extra jobs (see red below). You do not need to hire NEW people, not necessarily, unless the jobs created during initial cease to exist, then you need to create TWO NEW ones.

This is very clear in the guide. READ ITEM 169 and 170 from the guide !!!!! (for pre April 2014)

You do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during
the initial period of leave, if the employment created in the initial period of leave was
maintained for 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during your last grant of leave

if the jobs from the initial leave no longer exist, you must show they have created 2 new jobs which have existed for at least 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during your last grant of leave

You do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during
the initial period of leave, if the employment created in the initial period of leave was
maintained for 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during your last grant of leave

if the jobs from the initial leave no longer exist, you must show they have created 2 new jobs which have existed for at least 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during your last grant of leave

This is exactly what I mean. I could be wrong so I am going to give a picture of what I have in my head

Say
The director of company x is the applicant for June 2016 extensions

The director employed 2 settled workers starting from April 2015. At the point of extension application both the employees would have completed 13 months in employment. The contract for both these employees is suppose to end in June 2016. This is because the Director doesnt really need employees and can manage his business alone.

Now if the Director continues trading under the company x for another 2 years without any employees and the applies for the ILR. Will his employment used in the extension application be enough for him to get a successful outcome?

Now if the Director continues trading under the company x for another 2 years without any employees and the applies for the ILR. Will his employment used in the extension application be enough for him to get a successful outcome?

Of course not.
I have been repeating multiple times that you need 24 EXTRA months of employment AFTER your extension is granted. When the guide refers to the jobs being maintained from initial period, it means "maintained for 12 months in the extension period"

In your example, you either have to maintain the employees for another 12 months after the extension is granted (till lets say June 2017) OR you hire two new people for 12 months each to be eligible for ILR.

Right thanks for clearing that up mate I hate the language used in these guidance notes. Well I will have to keep pthem employed for another 12 months lol.

My understanding is similar to other members here, the reason you are repeating yourself is because you so far have not come up with any thing clearly supporting your own understanding, instead you believe on something and you are trying to convince others on that.

Please see below from guidance:

You do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during
the initial period of leave, if the employment created in the initial period of leave was
maintained for 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during your last grant
of leave;

What I see and understand here is, if the employment created in the initial leave was for 12 months or in line with transitional arrangements then you don't need any more employees after extension.
My points to make it clear based on HO guidance:

1-Reference of 12 months or transitional arrangement, so you either create job for 12 months or you can have several employees working as per transitional arrangements.

2-The above in bold from guidance starts with as when you do not need to create any more employments/jobs. I have explained that criteria in point 1 above.

3-If Home Office is asking for 12 months employment after extension, whether new or old employees, then they would not write it this way saying 12 months or in line with transitional arrangements as these two things together make no sense to what you are saying. Home Office accept two types of duration of job creation, one is lasting 12 months or those which are covered under transitional arrangements.

4-Another point: During Initial leave you have to create 2 full time jobs which either last 12 months each or you meet this requirement by employing several people to cover 24 months which are covered under transitional arrangements. This is what HO is saying in guidance that if you have done this in initial leave then no more jobs required.

5-The above in bold says from guidance : You do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during the initial period of leave

which confirms no more jobs required as you either employed 2 for 12 months during initial leave or you met this as per transitional arrangements.

6-Mentioning of 12 is being misunderstood, this is compared and in relation to job duration initial leave not after extension.

I can go further but I think this clear up confusions and those here who were of same understanding will agree now.

You are welcome to comment on my points.

that rule is for second extension not for ILR.
Thanks

jafersadeq wrote:that rule is for second extension not for ILR.
Thanks

Jafar

Which rule?

I did not know of 2nd extension in Entrepreneur Visa , I thought after 5 years you apply for ILR so please clarify .

As I think, if you are not eligible for ILR and you want to continue in your business you can extend two years more.
Thanks

helpingperson wrote:My understanding is similar to other members here, the reason you are repeating yourself is because you so far have not come up with any thing clearly supporting your own understanding, instead you believe on something and you are trying to convince others on that.

No, it is only because I am bothered to read things beyond the badly written Tier 1E guide (which now seems to be missing important information on this very topic) and cross check them to get the correct picture instead.

1) The guide published for applicants is missing this important bit but the internal HO guide did NOT. The guide published for HO staff in December 2015 has an extra bit in the job creation section (in red):

Further extensions and ILR applications
If the applicant‘s last grant of leave before the current grant was as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) (for instance, they are applying for a second extension):

they do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during the initial period of leave, if the employment created in the initial period of leave was maintained for 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during their last grant of leave

if the jobs from the initial leave no longer exist, they must show they have created 2 new jobs which have existed for at least 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during their last grant of leave

This arrangement is also applicable for ILR applications. However, the employment will be in relation to the extension period of leave, rather than the initial period of leave.

Internal Tier 1E guide, page 80: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _0_EXT.pdf

2) The requirement to maintain/create two jobs for your ILR is CLEARLY explained in part C on the latest SET(O) form (dated 6 April 2016) which you need to use to apply for your ILR. There you go:

During your period of leave as an Tier 1 (Entrepreneur), you must have created 2 full time jobs
for 12 months each across your business(es). If you created 2 jobs in your initial application, you
may use these jobs to claim points for settlement, if they were maintained for at least 12 months
during your extension period of leave. Alternatively, if the jobs you created during your initial
period of leave no longer exist, you can create 2 more in your extension period of leave, and
claim points for them - if they exist for at least 12 months.

SET(O) form, page 42: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _04-16.pdf

jafersadeq wrote:As I think, if you are not eligible for ILR and you want to continue in your business you can extend two years more.

3) Yes, some people may not be eligible for ILR (for example they might have absences of more than 180 days or unspent conviction unacceptable for grant of ILR)
They can apply for a second extension instead.

zimba88 wrote:

helpingperson wrote:My understanding is similar to other members here, the reason you are repeating yourself is because you so far have not come up with any thing clearly supporting your own understanding, instead you believe on something and you are trying to convince others on that.

No, it is only because I am bothered to read things beyond the badly written Tier 1E guide (which now seems to be missing important information on this very topic) and cross check them to get the correct picture instead.

1) The guide published for applicants is missing this important bit but the internal HO guide did NOT. The guide published for HO staff in December 2015 has an extra bit in the job creation section (in red):

Further extensions and ILR applications
If the applicant‘s last grant of leave before the current grant was as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) (for instance, they are applying for a second extension):

they do not need to demonstrate job creation in addition to the employment created during the initial period of leave, if the employment created in the initial period of leave was maintained for 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during their last grant of leave

if the jobs from the initial leave no longer exist, they must show they have created 2 new jobs which have existed for at least 12 months or in line with the transitional arrangement during their last grant of leave

This arrangement is also applicable for ILR applications. However, the employment will be in relation to the extension period of leave, rather than the initial period of leave.

Internal Tier 1E guide, page 80: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _0_EXT.pdf

2) The requirement to maintain/create two jobs for your ILR is CLEARLY explained in part C on the latest SET(O) form (dated 6 April 2016) which you need to use to apply for your ILR. There you go:

During your period of leave as an Tier 1 (Entrepreneur), you must have created 2 full time jobs
for 12 months each across your business(es). If you created 2 jobs in your initial application, you
may use these jobs to claim points for settlement, if they were maintained for at least 12 months
during your extension period of leave. Alternatively, if the jobs you created during your initial
period of leave no longer exist, you can create 2 more in your extension period of leave, and
claim points for them - if they exist for at least 12 months.

SET(O) form, page 42: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _04-16.pdf

jafersadeq wrote:As I think, if you are not eligible for ILR and you want to continue in your business you can extend two years more.

3) Yes, some people may not be eligible for ILR (for example they might have absences of more than 180 days or unspent conviction unacceptable for grant of ILR)
They can apply for a second extension instead.

In form set O where it asks for investment details what do they require. The money invested when we did our extention and are we to submit our accounts etc again

cappachino wrote: In form set O where it asks for investment details what do they require. The money invested when we did our extention and are we to submit our accounts etc again

No. It clearly says you do no need to send investment evidence again if you have been given points in a previous application.

zimba88 wrote:

cappachino wrote: In form set O where it asks for investment details what do they require. The money invested when we did our extention and are we to submit our accounts etc again

No. It clearly says you do no need to send investment evidence again if you have been given points in a previous application.

So all we need to do is fill the amount of investment in the business without submitting any documents.
Also the details required and investment do we need to include the investment and details of businesses which are not in operation or only of the business which is in operation.

cappachino wrote: So all we need to do is fill the amount of investment in the business without submitting any documents.
Also the details required and investment do we need to include the investment and details of businesses which are not in operation or only of the business which is in operation.

Could you please go and read the SET(O) form ???? You do not need to fill anything. You tick on your form that the evidence was submitted previously. That's it !
You need to send evidence only if you have not done it in any of the previous applications, for example if you you are applying for accelerated ILR within 3 years !

Hi @zimba88 (and anyone else that may know), following up to the question on employment, I understand we have to maintain (or create) an additional 24 months of jobs. However is there any guidance in the application that states whether these need to be settled workers during the extension period as well leading up to ILR? For example could it be non-EU students I am employing (with right to work)?

HI,

can this be one person for 24 months or two people 12 months each. ?

niomi wrote:Hi @zimba88 (and anyone else that may know), following up to the question on employment, I understand we have to maintain (or create) an additional 24 months of jobs. However is there any guidance in the application that states whether these need to be settled workers during the extension period as well leading up to ILR? For example could it be non-EU students I am employing (with right to work)?

Job requirement is the same as the initial period. Only settled workers are accepted for award of points

shaf2008 wrote: can this be one person for 24 months or two people 12 months each. ?

Only If you applied successfully to enter the Tier 1E route before 6 April 2014.
However I am not sure how you are going to employ someone for 24 months given that you will be granted only 24 months of extension.