Surinder Singh for parents in EU & UK visit

Hi All,

I am thinking of Surinder Singh route for Parents, starting in next couple of months.
I am a British Passport holder & living in UK currently.

I'm in bit of nimbo..

But before that- My parents would like to visit my sister in UK, who is a non-EEA national & tier-2 ICT.
They would like to stay with her for few months & then join me in EU for EEA route.

Will their visit to UK be issue for getting non-EU family member visa & RC in EU country?

Also, will they be able to accompany me direct from UK to EU country?
i.e. will I be able to apply for their EU visa in the EU country's embassy in UK, while they are visiting here?

And finally, by doing this will there be any affect on their subsequent return to UK from EU country, as non-EU family member of EU citizen.

Kindly advise at your earliest possible convenience.

Many thanks

Hi Bobthemoggie,

Tried to response your queries as best as possible:


But before that- My parents would like to visit my sister in UK, who is a non-EEA national & tier-2 ICT.
They would like to stay with her for few months & then join me in EU for EEA route.

If you parents hold UK visit visa they can enter UK and visit who ever they want, however travelling from Uk to Ireland can be a issue along the line in future. Now to elaborate this in detail the EU directive state that non EU members of the family can travel with EU citizen across EU provided they have proof of relationship, however in future a question will be asked as why a visa is not applied from home country to travel to EU. I strongly recommend to apply for correct visa from your home country.

Will their visit to UK be issue for getting non-EU family member visa & RC in EU country?

Please refer to response above, the purpose to enter UK is visit hence RC in EU country is separate matter. In present environment EU countries are pushing to apply from home country.

Also, will they be able to accompany me direct from UK to EU country?
i.e. will I be able to apply for their EU visa in the EU country's embassy in UK, while they are visiting here?

As explained above the Directive and EU treaty rights have the provision to travel together but it is advisable to apply from your home country. The embassy in Uk will not entertain application (only under extreme circumstances) to issue a visa.

And finally, by doing this will there be any affect on their subsequent return to UK from EU country, as non-EU family member of EU citizen.

Again, if they have traveled from their home country to EU then there will be now effect. In my opinion if you travel with your parents from Uk to EU, you might be criticized as you have used UK visit visa as a mode of entering into EU. Please note this is my speculation and experienced group members here can explain in a bit more detail.

In addition to above, i will suggest you to consider EU referendum happening in near future and the effect it can have on your plans. Also note if you are aiming to move to EU and then back to UK you will have to prove your Center of Life move and it is not a process of 6 months. Hope i have answered all your queries.

How do you propose to submit evidence of strong ties to your parents' home country in order to convince the Entry Clearance Officer to grant them a visitor visa, when they clearly have no intention of returning?

Hamza2013 wrote:Hi Bobthemoggie,

Tried to response your queries as best as possible:


But before that- My parents would like to visit my sister in UK, who is a non-EEA national & tier-2 ICT.
They would like to stay with her for few months & then join me in EU for EEA route.

If you parents hold UK visit visa they can enter UK and visit who ever they want, however travelling from Uk to Ireland can be a issue along the line in future. Now to elaborate this in detail the EU directive state that non EU members of the family can travel with EU citizen across EU provided they have proof of relationship, however in future a question will be asked as why a visa is not applied from home country to travel to EU. I strongly recommend to apply for correct visa from your home country.

Will their visit to UK be issue for getting non-EU family member visa & RC in EU country?

Please refer to response above, the purpose to enter UK is visit hence RC in EU country is separate matter. In present environment EU countries are pushing to apply from home country.

Also, will they be able to accompany me direct from UK to EU country?
i.e. will I be able to apply for their EU visa in the EU country's embassy in UK, while they are visiting here?

As explained above the Directive and EU treaty rights have the provision to travel together but it is advisable to apply from your home country. The embassy in Uk will not entertain application (only under extreme circumstances) to issue a visa.

And finally, by doing this will there be any affect on their subsequent return to UK from EU country, as non-EU family member of EU citizen.

Again, if they have traveled from their home country to EU then there will be now effect. In my opinion if you travel with your parents from Uk to EU, you might be criticized as you have used UK visit visa as a mode of entering into EU. Please note this is my speculation and experienced group members here can explain in a bit more detail.

In addition to above, i will suggest you to consider EU referendum happening in near future and the effect it can have on your plans. Also note if you are aiming to move to EU and then back to UK you will have to prove your Center of Life move and it is not a process of 6 months. Hope i have answered all your queries.

Hi Hamza2013,

Thanks a lot for your resourceful response.
1. Not just Ireland, I am even considering about the Netherlands/Switzerland or Luxembourg.
How difficult or easy will it for exercising the treaty rights through these countries -vs- Ireland?
Especially I would like to find out more about Netherlands

2. Will I be able to bring my in-laws instead/along with my parents through the Freedom of Movement route?
As I am unable to find necessary info regarding parents of partner on Netherlands website (ind.nl/) but same is present on Ireland's website.

Kindly advise.
Cheers

Bobthemoggie wrote:

Hamza2013 wrote:Hi Bobthemoggie,

Tried to response your queries as best as possible:


But before that- My parents would like to visit my sister in UK, who is a non-EEA national & tier-2 ICT.
They would like to stay with her for few months & then join me in EU for EEA route.

If you parents hold UK visit visa they can enter UK and visit who ever they want, however travelling from Uk to Ireland can be a issue along the line in future. Now to elaborate this in detail the EU directive state that non EU members of the family can travel with EU citizen across EU provided they have proof of relationship, however in future a question will be asked as why a visa is not applied from home country to travel to EU. I strongly recommend to apply for correct visa from your home country.

Hi

Just to share my experience as my family visited my (mom and sis) for 6 months and I wanted to do the EU route to NL so got in touch with the Dutch consulate in London. I had to email around a few time to get the right people, eventually they replied and did not object to them applying from UK and told me that I should present the email to the VFS global staff when applying. So dont think there is a problem in them coming over then applying for an EU country. Obviously cant say the same about Ireland.

However, my family had to return back so did not get a chance to apply from UK due to work commitments but now have applied their visa directly from the home country.

If parents are visiting UK for an extended holiday its not really helping the case to prove their dependency on you.

Do you have any evidence and history of the prior dependency of parents &/or parents in law on you?
- eg as head of household in a previous country where you have all lived, (recently and together)?

Can you show that by not having parents/in laws with you in a.n.other member state it will be restricting/constraining you as an Union citizen from exercising your free movement rights in that country?

Get up to speed on EU free movement here:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

On separate note, I would like to find out if we could initiate the parents entry clearance to EU country, while they are still in their home country & while I have not moved to EU country?
Long ago I have read somewhere on europa website that- you could do so, but couldn’t find the link now.
Cheers

Bobthemoggie wrote:On separate note, I would like to find out if we could initiate the parents entry clearance to EU country, while they are still in their home country & while I have not moved to EU country?
Long ago I have read somewhere on europa website that- you could do so, but couldn’t find the link now.
Cheers

See points 1-3 on https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... u-citizen/

Thanks for your kind response.
But one contradictory argument on it will be - for Immediate family members i.e. Spouse, children, (grand)parents they have not clearly mentioned about the financial support.
Whereas, in case of extended family members viz- Aunt , Nice etc. they would like to see evidence of the support (Financial) & care.

Kindly advise.

Cheers

noajthan wrote:If parents are visiting UK for an extended holiday its not really helping the case to prove their dependency on you.

Do you have any evidence and history of the prior dependency of parents &/or parents in law on you?
- eg as head of household in a previous country where you have all lived, (recently and together)?

Can you show that by not having parents/in laws with you in a.n.other member state it will be restricting/constraining you as an Union citizen from exercising your free movement rights in that country?

Get up to speed on EU free movement here:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

Bobthemoggie wrote:Thanks for your kind response.
But one contradictory argument on it will be - for Immediate family members i.e. Spouse, children, (grand)parents they have not clearly mentioned about the financial support.
Whereas, in case of extended family members viz- Aunt , Nice etc. they would like to see evidence of the support (Financial) & care.

Kindly advise.

Cheers

The determining factor is EU law and Article 2(2) of Directive 2004/38.
Even direct family members who are parents or grandparents (and also children aged over 21) have to show dependency.
Spouses and children under 21 do not.

Clearly any/all types of extended family members have to show dependency (emotional/financial &/or membership of household).
Again its all about EU law and relevant treaty rights & Directive.

noajthan wrote:

Bobthemoggie wrote:On separate note, I would like to find out if we could initiate the parents entry clearance to EU country, while they are still in their home country & while I have not moved to EU country?
Long ago I have read somewhere on europa website that- you could do so, but couldn’t find the link now.
Cheers

See points 1-3 on https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... u-citizen/

noajthan is correct. You will need to show proof of dependency. I applied for a visa for my mom n sis and before that I had a few email exchanges with the embassy and they needed such proof.

This is defined by the EU as:

2.1.4. Dependent family members
According to the case-law14 of the Court, the status of ‘dependent’ family member is the result of a factual situation characterised by the fact that material support for that family
member is provided by the EU citizen or by his spouse/partner. Dependent family members are required to present documentary evidence that they are dependent.

In the case of spouse it is not required. But for parents and extended family members very much so.

I submitted:

• Remittance receipts
  My bank statements highlighting the money for remittance getting debited
  My mother's bank statements showing money being credited
  Receipts of visa fees and tickets I paid for them when they visited UK
  For my sister I showed receipts of exam fees I paid for her
  Letter from the college showing she lived at the same address as my mother as my sister is married

That satisfied them.

Another related query:

How good is Switzerland for exercising EU Freedom of movement rights?

Many thanks

Exercising treaty rights is the same good or bad in any country you decide on. For Switzerland your parents will have to apply for a long stay visa to join you if you plan on exercising treaty rights there. Your parents will have to proof dependency on you. On a side note , Directive 2004/38 is not applicable in Switzerland. The free movement on people is based on a bilateral treaty between the EU and Switzerland and with fewer rights for non EU citizen family members, than those granted in the Directive.

Finally, it really comes down to whether you and your parents can proof that they are dependent on you or not , regardless the country you decide to choose to exercise your treaty rights. Good luck

Dear All,
I have a specific scenario query about- Moving along with EU citizen for non-EU parents option of the EU Freedom of Movement directive.
I am thinking to apply for entry clearance visa for dependents before moving to EU country (most probably Ireland or Switzerland/Italy).
While applying for their entry clearance visa, if I state a option that- they will be moving along with me(EU citizen) do we need to provide Airline ticket for proof of travel together? [As its a long process & I am planning to bring them over once I sort out their visa but also, when I get a job there, so its difficult to pre-book the journey]
Please advise if you have any info on this/ point to any useful link for this.
Cheers

No need for airline tickets, of applying on basis of EU law. You may need to prove a letter that they will be joining you at a specified time in the future.

But you do need to prove that in their home country, they are dependent on the EEA citizen.

If you are doing a Surinder Singh, you must work in the other EEA country for it to count as exercising treaty rights.

Be aware that Switzerland has already had a referendum in February 2014 on leaving the EEA for the same reason as the UK, immigration. It must leave the EEA by February 2017. It is waiting to see the results of the UK referendum, because the EU's terms for Switzerland will depend on its terms for the UK.

Also be aware that the UK-EU deal may tighten the requirements for the SS route if the UK votes to remain.

Please refrain from starting new topics on the same application query. Topics now merged. See Multiple Posts (click)

secret.simon wrote:No need for airline tickets, of applying on basis of EU law. You may need to prove a letter that they will be joining you at a specified time in the future.

But you do need to prove that in their home country, they are dependent on the EEA citizen.

If you are doing a Surinder Singh, you must work in the other EEA country for it to count as exercising treaty rights.

Be aware that Switzerland has already had a referendum in February 2014 on leaving the EEA for the same reason as the UK, immigration. It must leave the EEA by February 2017. It is waiting to see the results of the UK referendum, because the EU's terms for Switzerland will depend on its terms for the UK.

Also be aware that the UK-EU deal may tighten the requirements for the SS route if the UK votes to remain.

If the application is made on the basis that they will be accompanying you then you will need to provide proof of coming journey (i.e. flight reservations). Otherwise you will need to provide proof of where you are staying in the EU country.

I had to provide flight reservations.

I am also planning to apply for residence card of my parents for France so that I can use it for SS anytime soon. The French authorities are asking me to apply for Type D visa for Residence Card application for my parents but I will be contacting Solvit and hopefully they will help before my parent's visa expires.

So I guess we are in Similar boats Regarding your proof of dependance I didn't had the idea that I could also submit the flight tickets as proof! Point Noted I will also add this with my parents application

heyitsme wrote:I am also planning to apply for residence card of my parents for France so that I can use it for SS anytime soon. The French authorities are asking me to apply for Type D visa for Residence Card application for my parents but I will be contacting Solvit and hopefully they will help before my parent's visa expires.

So I guess we are in Similar boats Regarding your proof of dependance I didn't had the idea that I could also submit the flight tickets as proof! Point Noted I will also add this with my parents application

Hi heyitsme,

Thanks for your input.
Could you please advise what docs do you submit as proof of dependence?


Thanks a lot

My supporting documents are

My bank statements & my parents bank statements (showing the money transfers from me to them)
I have also requested western union for a letter showing history of Transactions
Current and past Flight ticket payment receipts (thanks to you!)
Past dependant visas I sponsored for them (UAE)

I can't think of any other documents. If you know please let me know so I can see if I can arrange for them too

secret.simon wrote:No need for airline tickets, of applying on basis of EU law. You may need to prove a letter that they will be joining you at a specified time in the future.

But you do need to prove that in their home country, they are dependent on the EEA citizen.

If you are doing a Surinder Singh, you must work in the other EEA country for it to count as exercising treaty rights.

Be aware that Switzerland has already had a referendum in February 2014 on leaving the EEA for the same reason as the UK, immigration. It must leave the EEA by February 2017. It is waiting to see the results of the UK referendum, because the EU's terms for Switzerland will depend on its terms for the UK.

Also be aware that the UK-EU deal may tighten the requirements for the SS route if the UK votes to remain.

How can Switzerland leave the EEA when we are not an EEA member state (We are part of EFTA) ? We have bilateral treaties with the EU which includes free movement of people. No such thing that we must leave the EEA by February 2017. Only thing that will happen is our bilateral arrangement with the EU will cease to exist and free movement of people between the EU and Switzerland will come to an end, along with some other bilateral treaties, unless we come to some sort of a mutual agreement with the EU. We are certainly not leaving the EEA which we rejected to be part of in a vote back in December 1992.

flyboy wrote:How can Switzerland leave the EEA when we are not an EEA member state (We are part of EFTA) ? We have bilateral treaties with the EU which includes free movement of people. No such thing that we must leave the EEA by February 2017. Only thing that will happen is our bilateral arrangement with the EU will cease to exist and free movement of people between the EU and Switzerland will come to an end, along with some other bilateral treaties, unless we come to some sort of a mutual agreement with the EU. We are certainly not leaving the EEA which we rejected to be part of in a vote back in December 1992.

Exactly the referendum was on curbing immigration and the Swiss government has until February 2017 to come up with fitting legislation.

Although there is a strong chance this will endanger the bilateral agreements, we won't know what the result is until the EU turns it's views towards renegotiation with Switzerland following the UK referendum in June.