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Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

This is the area of this board to discuss the referendum taking place in the UK on 23rd June 2016. Also to discuss the ramifications of the EU-UK deal.

Differing views will be respected. Rudeness to other members will not be welcome.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

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Obie
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Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Obie » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:20 pm

It has been reported that UK citizens will likely face visa restrictions after Brexit.

The Home Secretary has said that this will not be welcomed by British Citizens.

Opinion polls shows that majority of British Citizens wants to be able to live and work in the EU freely, whiles at the same time restricting the movement of EU citizens into the UK .

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... isa-scheme

It is difficult to see how British Citizens could get a deal, where EU Citizens will need visa and work permits to visit, or work in the UK, whiles British Citizens will be allowed to live work and buy properties in their respective countries.

It seems a bit odd and outrageous to me. Perhaps it is just me, but i find it hard to imagine how any right and fair-minded person will think in this way.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Richard W
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Richard W » Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:40 pm

Obie wrote:It is difficult to see how British Citizens could get a deal, where EU Citizens will need visa and work permits to visit, or work in the UK, whiles British Citizens will be allowed to live work and buy properties in their respective countries.

It seems a bit odd and outrageous to me. Perhaps it is just me, but i find it hard to imagine how any right and fair-minded person will think in this way.
Well, there are all sorts of asymmetries already. Many West Europeans get 30-day visa-free free entry to Thailand for tourist visits, but Thais need visas for the EU. What East Europeans get when they got to Thailand varies.

I think there are also asymmetries between the British Islands and the non-CTA EEA states, but I suspect they rarely matter.

The opinion question is biased by numbers. A few migrants doesn't matter - a large number is another matter. Free movement for citizens within Western Europe is generally acceptable - asymmetric movements are another matter. Now if our economy collapses, arguments of reciprocity will become more relevant. To get balanced responses, one would have to ask the question country by country, rather than lumping the rest of the EEA together. Otherwise, one risks getting answers about what Britons' rights should be w.r.t. France or Spain but answers about what Poles' or Romanians' rights should be w.r.t. the UK.

Restricting EEA visitors seems silly. However, past form suggests the government might be considering using work permits to control new arrivals, while allowing passports to be enough for existing EEA residents. Bang goes the effectiveness of using employers as Immigration Officers. The government reportedly loses £20 a head on UK-issued EEA residence documents, so I think the Home Office would rather not issue documents to all 3 million of them. (Such an approach should also store up future work for lawyers sorting out the under-documented who eventually find it hard to demonstrate the legality of their presence.)

Obie
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Obie » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:07 pm

I don't think the Opinion polls was biased at all. The British respondents were very clear on what they wanted.

They was an end of free movement to the UK, but they want to be able to continue benefiting from their free movement rights.

Some leave voter i had the misfortune of coming into encounter with, told me we will be able to continue going there and working freely, and that the result means we can stop them from coming here.

Out of unimaginable ignorance, he was telling me, we will get the best of both worlds. We stop them from coming to us, and we are able to get to theirs.

The Opinion appeared to have correctly picked up the prevailing views.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

secret.simon
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:25 pm

Very often, the via media and avoiding extreme opinions is often the best way forward. There is very often truth on both opposing sides of the argument.

Perhaps in this case the solution would be that the UK & the EU grant each others' citizens 90 day visit visas on arrival for a transitionary period of 25 years.
Obie wrote:Some leave voter i had the misfortune of coming into encounter with
Does suggest the revival of the old Indian concept of untouchables.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Obie
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Obie » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:36 pm

This is not the view on media.

I am sure you appreciate the science of Opinion polls.

It scientifically records the opinion at a specific time.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

secret.simon
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:46 pm

I am struggling to figure out if you are being sarcastic or straight-faced.

The study of opinion polls is anything but a precise science. It is more of an art, a black one at that, as Sir Humphrey so succinctly demonstrates.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Obie
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Obie » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:52 pm

No one ever suggest that they are precise. That is why they have a very well defined margin of error.

If a group of cohort are properly polled with adequate sampling size , then the result will reflect the current sentiment in that area at that particular time.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Richard W
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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Richard W » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:47 am

secret.simon wrote:Perhaps in this case the solution would be that the UK & the EU grant each others' citizens 90 day visit visas on arrival for a transitionary period of 25 years.
The problem should only arise if the UK makes some EU nationals visa nationals, and the EU chooses to retaliate. What's been made public makes most sense in the context of some limited ex-EEA freedom of movement, in which case we are talking about retaliation.

Alternatively, we're simply seeing the creeping demise of visa-free travel.

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Re: Brits to Apply for EU visit visa after Brexit

Post by Wanderer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:50 pm

Don't USAians get mostly visa-free travel to most of Europe? I seem to remember too some included work, notable for Germany, though I could be wrong on that...

There's certainly shitloads of US citizens working in the pubs here in Copenhagen.

Also, as a matter of assymetric interest, Brits (and most Westerner citizens) can get a 364 day visa on entry for Georgia, not reciprocated obvs.

Live there perm, cheap, warm, top plonk, hop out and back in every 12 months, tidy!

It's nice to be able to live and work here in KbH, but it's not easy to get register and get a social security number (CPR) taking ages so far and the places are hardly open and tucked away in the darkest corners of the city. That plus the lack of tax harmonisation, business and company law in the EU makes me feel it's not the upotia I thought it was....

And I miss the chipshop....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

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