how is the chance of refused when already have a cos secured

My company and I have spent many months and after couple of tries and finally secured a cos for me. I am switching from tier 4 dependant to tier 2 general. I have been working in the company 2 years as tier 4 dependant before switching. The application for tier 2 has been submitted one and a half month ago, still waiting. I have read some refusal cases in the forum, just wondering what's the chance of my case being rejected? The thing I don't understand is why home office need me to apply again after cos already been approved? why can't they do that in the same application. Isn't awarding a cos meaning they agree to give me Tier 2?

nz6666 wrote:Isn't awarding a cos meaning they agree to give me Tier 2?

No, they are not the same thing. A sponsor assigns a CoS. The applicant applies for a visa.

Has your sponsor completed the full and proper RLMT process to prove you have not been 'pre-selected'??

yes they put out the job ad for a month, before getting me the cos. Isn't this the prerequisite for cos? I thought getting cos is the most difficult part, no?

nz6666 wrote:yes they put out the job ad for a month, before getting me the cos. Isn't this the prerequisite for cos? I thought getting cos is the most difficult part, no?

How many applicants were there and how many interviewed?
Its not as simple as placing an ad, ignoring everyone and giving you the job.

noajthan wrote: How many applicants were there and how many interviewed?
Its not as simple as placing an ad, ignoring everyone and giving you the job.

They put very high requirement in the Ad so that no body dare to apply. They told me they didn't receive any applications.

Actually applying for cos got refused several times (or so they told me) for different reasons. E.g. one time it got refused because I got salary increased just before the application of the cos, and later home office requested my pay slips, so the pay slips are with new salary and didn't match what's in the application. The other time is HR lady told me she didn't see the home office email for my pay slips (yes I was mad).

So I finally got the cos in Sept and thought the most difficult part has passed?

A Quick question to nz6666

When the CoS was assigned then did you company show the RLMT they conducted.

Do the Home Office check at the RLMT again at the time of candidate application.

As far as I know if the RLMT is not successful the they will not allot a CoS isn't it ?

nz6666 wrote:

noajthan wrote: How many applicants were there and how many interviewed?
Its not as simple as placing an ad, ignoring everyone and giving you the job.

They put very high requirement in the Ad so that no body dare to apply. They told me they didn't receive any applications.

Actually applying for cos got refused several times (or so they told me) for different reasons. E.g. one time it got refused because I got salary increased just before the application of the cos, and later home office requested my pay slips, so the pay slips are with new salary and didn't match what's in the application. The other time is HR lady told me she didn't see the home office email for my pay slips (yes I was mad).

So I finally got the cos in Sept and thought the most difficult part has passed?

If they have constructed the RLMT to exclude everyone except you, then you are clearly 'pre-selected'. You still have to apply for the visa, so nothing is guaranteed and HO can still take their time and look into the whole process your sponsor has followed.

nz6666 wrote:

noajthan wrote: How many applicants were there and how many interviewed?
Its not as simple as placing an ad, ignoring everyone and giving you the job.

They put very high requirement in the Ad so that no body dare to apply. They told me they didn't receive any applications.

...

So I finally got the cos in Sept and thought the most difficult part has passed?

Tier 2 does not exist to deliver your dream job to you at the exclusion of every other willing, able and qualified/experienced candidate in the whole of UK and EU.

This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the Tier 2 route and is the road to sponsor license revocation.

Mahir1108 wrote:A Quick question to nz6666

When the CoS was assigned then did you company show the RLMT they conducted.

Do the Home Office check at the RLMT again at the time of candidate application.

I don't know what exactly my company did, what I know is they put out an Ad for a while and been contacted by home office for supporting documents etc and finally got me a cos. Based on what you said

Mahir1108 wrote: As far as I know if the RLMT is not successful the they will not allot a CoS isn't it ?

So my RLMT has been carried out and was successful because I have been allocated a cos?

RLMT, COS, employer process etc etc will all be crosschecked and verified when visa is processed.

noajthan wrote: Tier 2 does not exist to deliver your dream job to you at the exclusion of every other willing, able and qualified/experienced candidate in the whole of UK and EU.

This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the Tier 2 route and is the road to sponsor license revocation.

No, my company didn't exclude anyone suitable for my role. Like I said my company put an ad with very high requirement for others but not for me. Why? I have been on that role for 2 years (on Tier 4 dependant, legally) so I have learnt everything related to that role. This is an IT role and involves many technologies which I gradually mastered during the two years. Some of the technologies are not very easy to find a suitable candidate on the market. Do you think my company decided to sponsor me because they liked me? No, because it will be hard for them to find another suitable one, and there will be probation, training etc. There may be very few people who have all the skills available but they simply didn't apply for that role in that month.

nz6666 wrote:No, my company didn't exclude anyone suitable for my role. Like I said my company put an ad with very high requirement for others but not for me. Why? I have been on that role for 2 years (on Tier 4 dependant, legally) so I have learnt everything related to that role. This is an IT role and involves many technologies which I gradually mastered during the two years. Some of the technologies are not very easy to find a suitable candidate on the market. Do you think my company decided to sponsor me because they liked me? No, because it will be hard for them to find another suitable one, and there will be probation, training etc. There may be very few people who have all the skills available but they simply didn't apply for that role in that month.

Exactly, you have therefore been 'pre-selected' for the role.

nz6666 wrote:No, my company didn't exclude anyone suitable for my role. Like I said my company put an ad with very high requirement for others but not for me. Why? I have been on that role for 2 years (on Tier 4 dependant, legally) so I have learnt everything related to that role. This is an IT role and involves many technologies which I gradually mastered during the two years. Some of the technologies are not very easy to find a suitable candidate on the market. Do you think my company decided to sponsor me because they liked me? No, because it will be hard for them to find another suitable one, and there will be probation, training etc. There may be very few people who have all the skills available but they simply didn't apply for that role in that month.

2 years work experience in IT is not so unique. Hard to believe you are only candidate in Europe who can fulfill such a role.
And familiarity with the company and its idisoyncracies and workflows etc are not valid factors.
Nor are factors such as probation, training and you knowing where the coffee machine is.

HO will be digging into this, especially as you are an in-house 'candidate'.
If anything that sets you at a disadvantage.

noajthan wrote: 2 years work experience in IT is not so unique. Hard to believe you are only candidate in Europe who can fulfill such a role.
And familiarity with the company and its idisoyncracies and workflows etc are not valid factors.
Nor are factors such as probation, training and you knowing where the coffee machine is.

HO will be digging into this, especially as you are an in-house 'candidate'.
If anything that sets you at a disadvantage.

No no , you got me wrong. I said I worked two years in this company but I have worked more than 10 years before that.

CR001 wrote: Exactly, you have therefore been 'pre-selected' for the role.

ok i am pre selected but i guess it's not practical for my company to fire me first then run the rlmt. I think the policy doesn't cover every case and it's impossible to do so. Anyway, it's up to the home office to decide. Finger crossed.

nz6666 wrote:No no , you got me wrong. I said I worked two years in this company but I have worked more than 10 years before that.

That's fine.

I have almost 30 years and run teams both offshore and in UK (mix of UK, Europeans and Tier 2) most of whom have 10 or more years under the belt. Not exactly rare commodities.

Hope for best but plan for worst. Make a Plan B.

nz6666 wrote:

noajthan wrote: Tier 2 does not exist to deliver your dream job to you at the exclusion of every other willing, able and qualified/experienced candidate in the whole of UK and EU.

This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the Tier 2 route and is the road to sponsor license revocation.

No, my company didn't exclude anyone suitable for my role. Like I said my company put an ad with very high requirement for others but not for me. Why? I have been on that role for 2 years (on Tier 4 dependant, legally) so I have learnt everything related to that role. This is an IT role and involves many technologies which I gradually mastered during the two years. Some of the technologies are not very easy to find a suitable candidate on the market. Do you think my company decided to sponsor me because they liked me? No, because it will be hard for them to find another suitable one, and there will be probation, training etc. There may be very few people who have all the skills available but they simply didn't apply for that role in that month.

As long as your company followed this "You cannot refuse to employ a settled worker if they lack qualifications, experience or skills, including language skills that were not asked for in the job advertisement." you should be fine.

If you have valid experience as advertised in the job and if settled worker's who applied for the advertised role does not meet the essential skill/salary/qualification/ as advertised you should be fine. make sure that your company has followed teh RLMT process correctly and it should not appear that you are pre-selected.

Good Luck and Hope for the best, like the other guy suggested also think about any plan B.

In any case, do keep us posted here, as it's always useful to know the outcome of cases like this.

eduleal wrote:In any case, do keep us posted here, as it's always useful to know the outcome of cases like this.

Sure, i will update.

Some points to consider when looking at RLMT
In your case switching from tier 4 dependent to tier 2 general. Restricted COS

There are three stages before you can consider yourself "safe"
Stage 1 get the restricted COS issued. This only grants permission to the licence holder to issue the RCOS. It does not say the individual is suitable, neither does it say the RLMT has been deemed fit and proper. It is solely permission to issue it. The wording, salary etc has not been agreed, sanctioned or anything like that by UKVI.

Stage 2 apply for a visa. This looks at the information for the first time on the RCOS. If the caseworker thinks all is in order then it gets granted. If not it is refused and you are back where you started.

Stage 3 visit from UKVI compliance staff. Only after a visit has been conducted can you truly believe all is well. They can query the RLMT in great depth. If the adverts were so specific that only you would be suitable then they will suspend/ revoke the licence and with it your visa gets curtailed.

Based on the very sketchy information you have supplied and the previous failed efforts to secure a RCOS the company will be very much on the UKVI radar.

It will be a tough long haul to survive all three stages based on your information.

Just an update: got the letter of approval from home office on 15 th and got the brp this morning. Tier 2 general, 3 year until sept 2019. Also I checked with my company couple of days ago and they told me they hadn't been contacted by home office regarding my application.

Frontier Mole wrote:Some points to consider when looking at RLMT
In your case switching from tier 4 dependent to tier 2 general. Restricted COS

yes, my case in the restricted category.

Frontier Mole wrote: There are three stages ...

I am not sure on this. All I know is my company is already a Tier 2 sponsor before my case (they have applied for someone in India before). On my case they did do the rmlt (put out ad for 28 days). And then they got me the cos after that. I applied Tier 2 with the cos and waited 2 months and got approved.

Anyone in a similar situation can refer to my case (for now, things may change).

Good news, congratulations.
Truth is - the RLMT is the employer's responsibility so really not your fault that you were not 100% sure of all the specifics.
Best of luck!