ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

Please use this section of the board if there is no specific section for your query.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

Locked
vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:46 pm

vinny wrote:
darkcloud20 wrote:I talked to some immigration lawyers in the meanwhile, but they are giving misleading information, their opinions don't match with each other.
The Rules are too complex and possibly incomplete. Even Ministers were caught out.
Court of Appeal has finally had it with the Points Based System >
SI (India) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2016] EWCA Civ 1255 (07 December 2016) wrote:Discussion and conclusion

17. The SSHD's decision is set out in a letter of 5th November 2013. Although this is a PBS case, there are five pages of fairly dense typescript which recite the standard relevant paragraphs. One page shows in tabular form the points awarded. The reasoning supporting the decision is confined to two sentences in a box on page three. The first sentence does no more than recite the policy that parental sponsorship is not permitted for Tier 1 applications. It is silent as to any reasoning for the decision maker's reliance on that policy and in particular does not apply the policy to the evidence. The Applicant, and the tribunal, are left to navigate to their own conclusions about whether the evidence submitted is rejected and if so why. The second sentence - "parental sponsorship …is not permitted…in addition the evidence submitted is post-dated the date you made the application…" - reads as if the decision maker considered the additional evidence and rejected it as not submitted at the time the application was made. Both members of this court so construed it. So too did the Upper Tribunal judge and the Applicant. We were told in submissions that we are all wrong and that the sentence intended to convey that some of the additional evidence relates to a time period which is irrelevant.

18. As the Senior President of Tribunals said on 16th November 2016 in evidence to the Constitution Committee of the House of Lords and repeated in dialogue during this hearing a decision letter which to the extent we read here lacks clarity and reasoning cannot withstand scrutiny by this court. It is inappropriate to expect an applicant who may not enjoy publicly funded legal representation to construe such poor drafting. Nor should the administration of justice oblige a tribunal to expend public time and money itself attempting that task. Decision letters should set out with clarity a) the facts determinative of the application, b) why the applicant's evidence has been rejected and c) the reasons for coming to the conclusion reached.

19. In our view a reader of the decision letter would struggle to understand b) and c) above. Three judges and one barrister certainly did. That is enough to dispose of this appeal, which we allow.

20. We give permission for this judgment to be reported.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

helpingperson
BANNED
Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 am

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by helpingperson » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:26 pm

Vinny,

Thank you, in simple words what impact this will have?

I have read it twice but not sure.

Petaltop
Senior Member
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:42 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by Petaltop » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:33 pm

helpingperson wrote:Vinny,

Thank you, in simple words what impact this will have?

I have read it twice but not sure.

"The direct precedent value of the case is therefore little, unless it does represent a turning point." is what is said in that article, under the quote vinny used. They said this case was about the now long closed, Tier 1 PSW visa.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:15 pm

I think that the judgment is the latest in line to reflect a condemnation of the incomprehensibility of the Immigration rules. Let's hope that it does represent a turning point to make the rules simpler. Else, there may be more such cases.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:08 am

Another example from the Supreme Court.
30. wrote:I have found this a troubling case. It is particularly disturbing that the Secretary of State herself has been unable to maintain a consistent view of the meaning of the relevant rules and regulations. The public, and particularly those directly affected by immigration control, are entitled to expect the legislative scheme to be underpinned by a coherent view of their meaning and the policy behind them. I agree with the concluding comments of Elias LJ (para 49) on this aspect, and the "overwhelming need" for rationalisation and simplification.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:05 am

Home Secretary Amber Rudd announces review of Immigration Rules.
Q84 wrote:Sarah Jones: Final question from me. Going back to immigration, when you were talking about the new European system for EU citizens, you said that you wanted it to be completely different in terms of user friendliness, and that you were in the business of making it as simple as possible. On behalf of all my constituents who are trying to get visa applications done and having to pay hundreds of pounds to solicitors just to work out which form they should fill in, I ask that you apply the same simple approach to the rest of the immigration system because it is hugely complex and people are spending lots of money and lots of time and lots of stress trying to get through the system.

Amber Rudd: I completely agree with you. I have already requested the Law Commission to review our immigration laws with a view to simplifying them. There were 20,000 different pieces of regulation for non-EU regulations and we have now got them down to 4,000. It is incredibly important—I share your frustration—and this is a personal mission of mine to make sure that we simplify the immigration so that your constituents and mine can use it in a more user-friendly way and that it can just be clearer for people where they can and where they can’t apply.

Sarah Jones: Thank you.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:42 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

The Station Agent
Senior Member
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:51 am
Location: UK

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by The Station Agent » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:48 am

Amen to that.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:03 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:22 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:28 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:06 am

Unfortunately, the overly complex Appendix EU definitions seems to violate a drafting guidance:
Don’t make a definition do too much
Moreover, it seems to be a wrong approach to simplifying the Immigration Rules?
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Wed May 31, 2023 11:48 pm

I think they failed to note how programmers simplify their programs by using subroutines or functions.

Examples of problems:
Muddle between validity and eligibility. IMHO, validity should be category independent.
PBS dependants and Long residence lead ILR holder.
Removed some routes.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

vinny
Moderator
Posts: 32760
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Court of Appeal has finally had it with the PBS

Post by vinny » Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:15 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Locked
cron