FPS AND ANY OTHER DOCUMENT FOR JOB CREATION

Dear Zimba
My accountant said that just sending one page FPS is not enough for HO,
I need to send proof of submitting FPS like automate reply from HMRC or a printout from a file which is he sending with any submission. (this file just can open with wordpad and it has like below information:

"Received: from Exch13MB-02.mail.cloud.is.it (00.0.000.00) by
Exch13MB-02.mail.cloud.is.it (0.0.000.00) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS)
id 00.0.000.3 via Mailbox Transport; Thu, 23 Feb 2017 14:15:56 +0000........"

any suggestion please?

You need to send FPS REPORTS, generated by software.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1415597

Dear zimba I am confused please help me
Is this one is fps report (it is monthly)
https://moneysoft.co.uk/support/running-the-payroll/

Dear zimba,
Simply shall I send:
1. one page FPS report for each month?( is there any different within RTI FULL SUBMISSION and FPS REPORT)
2. monthly payslip for each employee?
3. proof of settlement?
I need YOUR HELP please.

Answer to all of them is yes. FPS reports are what you need to send

zimba88 wrote:Answer to all of them is yes. FPS reports are what you need to send

12pay it is called RTI full submission (and does not have start stop dates, even though it is HMRC approved SW)

12pay does not generate reports with starter/leaver dates, which will not be accepted by HO

zimba88 wrote:12pay does not generate reports with starter/leaver dates, which will not be accepted by HO

I have tried migrating to moneysoft but I have too many employees/changing salary amounts e.g. bonus or raises/paternity and maternity leaves/child vouchers/salary in lieu of vacation etc etc. It becomes a mess. Not to mention it IS NOT the SW used to submit FPS

So any ideas (again 12pay is HMRC approved)? Also it is abundantly clear that I have many multiples of 2 person years of FT employment just don't have the start/leave dates

I will explain this (with the page from HMRC showing approval of 12pay) and what else can I do? pencil in each report start/leavers (clearly this is not original but it is 'there' not sure what this is differnt then producing an unoriginal report via moneysoft?)

seasky wrote:

zimba88 wrote:12pay does not generate reports with starter/leaver dates, which will not be accepted by HO

I have tried migrating to moneysoft but I have too many employees/changing salary amounts e.g. bonus or raises/paternity and maternity leaves/child vouchers/salary in lieu of vacation etc etc. It becomes a mess. Not to mention it IS NOT the SW used to submit FPS

So any ideas (again 12pay is HMRC approved)? Also it is abundantly clear that I have many multiples of 2 person years of FT employment just don't have the start/leave dates

I will explain this (with the page from HMRC showing approval of 12pay) and what else can I do? pencil in each report start/leavers (clearly this is not original but it is 'there' not sure what this is differnt then producing an unoriginal report via moneysoft?)

The fps report MUST show start and end dates or there's a very high probability your visa will be refused.

Since you have so many employees, you do not have to include all of them with your application.

Pick two or three with at least 24 months employment between them in total (if you fall under the April 2014 route) and rerun their details on moneysoft. This way you will generate FPS results that are in line with HO requirements.

HMRC's requirements and HO's requirements are different. Just because a document generated in a particular format is accepted by HMRC does NOT mean the same document will be accepted by home office.

Home office doesn't care if you have employed 50 people or 1 person. All they care about is submitting the right documents in the format they've stipulated. You will not get more points for evidencing any more than 24 months employment with your application.

However, evidence 50 months employment in the wrong format and you risk a refusal.

babylondoner wrote:
The fps report MUST show start and end dates or there's a very high probability your visa will be refused.

Since you have so many employees, you do not have to include all of them with your application.

Pick two or three with at least 24 months employment between them in total (if you fall under the April 2014 route) and rerun their details on moneysoft. This way you will generate FPS results that are in line with HO requirements.

HMRC's requirements and HO's requirements are different. Just because a document generated in a particular format is accepted by HMRC does NOT mean the same document will be accepted by home office.

Home office doesn't care if you have employed 50 people or 1 person. All they care about is submitting the right documents in the format they've stipulated. You will not get more points for evidencing any more than 24 months employment with your application.

However, evidence 50 months employment in the wrong format and you risk a refusal.

Much apreciated babylondoner your detailed reply. However I can 'almost' buy in to moving 'all' data to moneysoft, at least it is a 1:1 replica of what was sent via FPS, but moving partial data screams of fraud.

It is sad that home office does not care if you "have employed 50 people or 1 person"

You should do what you are comfortable with, that also means accepting HO cannot read minds and does not care if they do not get the document they want. This also means you should be comfortable with possibility of a refusal. I prefer to send as they requested and explain later rather than hoping HO will understand (they don't usually)

Thx Zimba,

There will be no mind reading, it will be covered in detail in the cover letter. I will copy the HMRC page that shows that 12pay is approved.

I hope HO does not wake up in the future and suddenly say all those that 'fudged' the FPS report have an issues....

There will be no mind reading, it will be covered in detail in the cover letter. I will copy the HMRC page that shows that 12pay is approved.

Your covering letter has no bearing on the decision if your documents are missing the required information. This should be clear by now to you. Case workers follow the rules, they do not know anything about the Software differences. They will certainly ignore your covering letter.
I strongly recommend against hoping that HO will understand given the rules REQUIRE this explicitly !

I hope HO does not wake up in the future and suddenly say all those that 'fudged' the FPS report have an issues

Nobody is fudging anything unless the FPS submissions or payments you claim never happened. Using a different software to produced a report that is ONLY AND ONLY generated by software and has NOTHING to do with the actual submission data. Your submitted data is perfectly correct and submitted via RTI and is verifiable via HMRC system.
AGAIN, FPS reports are simply SOFTWARE generated REPORTS. They just show a human readable snapshot of the tax/payments made to employees in each submission !!!!!

seasky wrote:
Much apreciated babylondoner your detailed reply. However I can 'almost' buy in to moving 'all' data to moneysoft, at least it is a 1:1 replica of what was sent via FPS, but moving partial data screams of fraud.

It is sad that home office does not care if you "have employed 50 people or 1 person"

it seems you are hell bent on doing things your own way. a cover letter won't help you because the document you insist on providing to HO does not contain the information that has been CLEARLY listed as a requirement by home office in the rules/guidance. i can only wish you the best of luck and hope you wont end up with ''only if i had known'' by the time you get a decision from home office. do not forget that there is nothing like an ''lower/upper tribunal appeal'' process again where you can argue your case on whether or not a particular software should be accepted.

moving to a new HO approved software has nothing to do with your HMRC submissions.

at the end of the day, you have created these jobs, you have paid your workers and you have also paid the corresponding tax and NI deductions to HMRC - this is all that counts legally. migrating to a new software that's HO approved is NOT fraud.

zimba88 wrote:

I hope HO does not wake up in the future and suddenly say all those that 'fudged' the FPS report have an issues

Nobody is fudging anything unless the FPS submissions or payments you claim never happened. Using a different software to produced a report that is ONLY AND ONLY generated by software and has NOTHING to do with the actual submission data. Your submitted data is perfectly correct and submitted via RTI and is verifiable via HMRC system.
AGAIN, FPS reports are simply SOFTWARE generated REPORTS. They just show a human readable snapshot of the tax/payments made to employees in each submission !!!!!

FPS as I see it is a system of automated payment to HMRC saving HMRC and the company a huge amount of manual entries (and the mistakes humans make). There is a coded stamp attached to each automatic submission. You can also ask your SW to printout a report of 'what was automatically declared and paid' this is as you say a human readable snapshot made by YOUR SW.

If you move to another SW it may look the same but I (assume) in the coded stamp they know which SW package sent it and -if they had interest- could look it up.

And here is the big question, is there any evidence that HMRC thinks this is OK? or is it just this forums 'groupthink' (I studied groupthink and it is a powerful phenomenon)? Has anyone called HMRC and asked about porting SW to another package? Has anyone written in their cover letter that "I paid using SW X but produced this report via SW Y"?

Now in my case it is too complicated to port all the data to a new SW package (I can understand if you have 2 employees for exactly one year and you pay them nothing beyond a salary e.g. maternity leave, it is easy), I looked into it.

babylondoner wrote:
at the end of the day, you have created these jobs, you have paid your workers and you have also paid the corresponding tax and NI deductions to HMRC - this is all that counts legally. migrating to a new software that's HO approved is NOT fraud.

say you have money in the bank correctly for maintenance but your bank adviser went on a 3 week vacation to the Galapagos islands with a stopover in Santiago de Chile. So you take a previous bank statement and change the dates and the sums and submit. For clarification the data is 100% correct. is that OK?

Again I know I may be driving the forum crazy on this issue but my intention is to get to the bottom of this . But the real question is there evidence it is OK (not having been caught yet is not such evidence...)

[though I admit if I could use a SW package to just generate this I probably would....)

You have a choice.
You can argue, stand your ground and complain and discuss for months and months and look for facts. In the mean time, a junior HO case worker will conformably refuses your application in a heartbeat for failure to send an RTI submission showing start/end dates as REQUIRED in his/her little RULE BOOK and messes up your life (if you think about it the requirement itself is moronic given that RTI submission IS MANDATORY for all payroll reporting, there is no other way)
... Or you can give them a report as they require in a format with those specific information and get it over with

Remember: UK government has made is almost impossible to defend immigration applications on most grounds, they removed appeal rights completely, AR is pretty much useless and they also reduced the days to prepare a new application to merely 14 days if you are refused.
There is no room for arguing and fact checking as they are obviously not really interested. The way they formulated the the rules and requirements shows that they have zero interest in getting things right anyway. In fact they will be extremely delighted if you decided to leave the country and never return.

zimba88 wrote:You have a choice.
You can argue, stand your ground and complain and discuss for months and months and look for facts. In the mean time, a junior HO case worker will conformably refuses your application in a heartbeat for failure to send an RTI submission showing start/end dates as REQUIRED in his/her little RULE BOOK and messes up your life (if you think about it the requirement itself is moronic given that RTI submission IS MANDATORY for all payroll reporting, there is no other way)
... Or you can give them a report as they require in a format with those specific information and get it over with

Remember: UK government has made is almost impossible to defend immigration applications on most grounds, they removed appeal rights completely, AR is pretty much useless and they also reduced the days to prepare a new application to merely 14 days if you are refused.
There is no room for arguing and fact checking as they are obviously not really interested. The way they formulated the the rules and requirements shows that they have zero interest in getting things right anyway. In fact they will be extremely delighted if you decided to leave the country and never return.

Well what you say does make sense (saying that do you have any evidence, even anecdotal that HO is OK with this?) but why go through moneysoft, why not just edit in PDF editor my FPS and add start/leave dates?

saying that do you have any evidence, even anecdotal that HO is OK with this?

No but I am sure they want to see you paid taxes and hired employees. As long as you are not making a false claim

zimba88 wrote:

saying that do you have any evidence, even anecdotal that HO is OK with this?

No but I am sure they want to see you paid taxes and hired employees. As long as you are not making a false claim

Yes. And they want to see it in a specific format. So why not pdf editor?

Cause it is easier. Anyway up to you.

Regarding FPS. Since i had to recreate the RTI - FPS for 2015-16 Year , Although the originals were submitted every month by my accountant but there were a lot of amendments so I had to reacreate the payroll file for that year and extract the information which matches HMRC records.

However since the recreated file is not submitted to HMRC, If one of my employees started in April 2015 and one in May 2016, they starters date is being shown on each month's RTI - FPS.

Do you think that would be a problem (in which case I can use .PDF editor to remove starter's date from subsequent months).

The data and start / Leavers date matches exactly with HMRC records. I need suggestion If i submit RTI with start date on each month's RTI or shall I edit the .pdf ?

NO need to edit.

Just wanted to say that I wish I had seen this thread sooner!

I am on the 50k route. Just got refusal from Home office over the FPS - reason as follows:

"You have provided pay slips, FPS data and historical payroll details, P11, P32 - however these do not meet the requirements of paragraph 46-SD(h)(i) and 46-SD(h)(iii) as these documents do not indicate the hourly rate of pay or the date that each employee started"

I have indicated the hourly rate of pay and the date that each employee started on the actual application form. So the information is there, just not in the format they required.

I am filing for Administrative Review within the next 10 days, has anyone gone through this and won?