14 year concession - What are our chances? Please Help!!!

Hi,
Just here to get some advice. My situation is quite complex me and family came to this country in 1993 on visitor visa and have been here ever since.

We want to come clean and regularize the immigration limbo we are in soon. My family and I will always love and respect this country as it has given us so much even though we were not entitled to it, no matter what happens with our application but I want to get an idea of what our chances are of succeeding in regularizing our stay. We also want to payback what is due to great country and more now that we all will be starting our careers.

We came to this country with our mother when I was 11, sister 9 and brother 5. today we are 26, 24 and 20 respectively.

My mother initially came to this country due to fear and economic reasons i.e. education for her children. She is illiterate, single mother.

My mother was persuaded to come to this country by her brother and two sisters who are all British citizens.

She initially came here with us after her brother was murdered in late 1992 who looked after us since early 1990 when my father died. In our culture remarriage is not an option if you have children involved.

She initially planned to apply for asylum but decided against it after advice from experts.

We lived with family for the first two years but after my mother got a part time job as a cleaner we moved into a flat. And basically she supported us with her wage, savings and some income she was receiving from our home country. Although it was very difficult we were just managing. But then she fell ill.

As a result we applied for public funds and we did use deception to gain funds. My mother managed to get documents with the help of paid agent.

Ever since she has lived on benefits and received benefits for us until we were all 18.

Me, my sister and brother have never claimed benefits in our own capacity although we have got university fees, grants and loans by using the documents which were gained deceptively although we have all intention of paying back every penny. It was either this or no education.

I have a degree but admit I am not the brains of the family. I have worked part time since I was 18. I have not yet started working full time its much harder to get away as the immigration laws are tightened. And also for the fear of getting caught as my siblings are still at university which I do not want to take risk on.

On the other hand my siblings are doing very well and are Ace students all the way through their education. My sister is studying at one of the top universities in this country by that I mean one of the top 5 but don’t want to mention the name and is in last year of her medicine course.

My brother on the other hand is in second year of his degree and is studying at one of the top universities for his field and has gained an internship at one of the top investment banks in the world.

Both their futures especially look bright but they are still in immigration limbo as we all don’t have efficient documents to do what they like and are in constant fear of getting caught, same with not getting the jobs which on merit are theirs for taking but due to our situation we may not be able to satisfy the employers that we have right to work with the documents we have. We are also unable to travel which is a must if he becomes an investment banker. My brother's bank have said they can get him a work permit no probs if he does not have the rihjt to work here but we can't take them up on that offer because of our situation.

Therefore we have all decided that we will have to come clean as soon as possible. We intend to do this as soon as my siblings gain their degrees.

My siblings and I to an extent will be an asset to any country as we are honest (I know our immigration records won’t prove that), hard working, love this country, have friends in all part of society and not just in our own ethnic group, we are integrated, we have only known this as our country as we have spent most of our life here and came here at a young age.

I also can’t emphasize enough how grateful we are to this country for providing us the opportunities that we may never have had and pay back what we feel we owe to this great country by working and paying taxes.

My question now is what are our chances under the 14 year rule as its already been 15 since we’ve been here. I know we all apply in our own right as we all are over 18 and probably have good grounds for a successful outcome as we were young and came into this country as dependents and through no choice of our own. Their may even be grounds under human rights law.

But we are fearful for our mother more then ourselves who did all this for our betterment and future as she was the one who applied for all documents and benefits. I know she is still on benefits but we have no intention of leaving her on benefits for any longer then we have to. As soon as we start working we intend to start supporting her and stop all the benefits for good. She is the most important person in all our lives and without her we won’t be anything.

Also will the character of her children have any effect on the decision that may be made. You can’t say thereare many single parents and more so illitrate who have gone through so much to have given her children a strong foundation to go from strength to strength whether its their career or life generally and in all instances will be credit to this great country. Could anyone please tell me what the worst that could happen to us if we come clean? Is deportation the worst scenario or can we be put in prison? We might just be able handle leaving this country for good with a deep heart but prison we cannot imagine?

Regards,

bhaju

You all need to make applications for Indefinite Leave to Remain under the 14 year rule. As soon as possible.

Victoria

The Long Residency Category for legal/non-legal stay can take a very long time, sometimes anything from 6 months to 3+ years. You can, and should, submit your application asap, but the decision might take a long time, and I don't think your brother has that amount of time? Get your application ready asap - proof of how long you've been in the country (school documents, certificates, any hospital letters, etc) is a must.

thanks for your reply victoria but we do not want to risk it until my siblings finish their education.
Also until we are aware of what we may face.

another question

Do you need a valid passport before you apply? As we don't currentily have valid passports?
and also can we o to prison for what we have done say if they refuse to grant settlement and we agree to go back?

bhaju wrote:thanks for your reply victoria but we do not want to risk it until my siblings finish their education.
Also until we are aware of what we may face.

I don't know what your timescale is, but there is a very real possibility that the 10 and 14 year rules may not be available any longer in the relatively near future. They may even be on their way out by this time next year because of the Government's recent announcement.

Also have a look at this, particularly p. 8 and 9. Given that you all have engaged in deception, particularly your mother during your 15 year stay here, a case worker may decide against you as being contrary to the public interest. Your task in completing the ILR application would be to overcome this perception by making a compelling case for discretion in the other direction.

Good luck. This won't be particularly easy. But it will also be very difficult for your siblings to get well-paid, legal jobs as overstayers with false documents.

bhaju wrote:thanks for your reply victoria but we do not want to risk it until my siblings finish their education.
Also until we are aware of what we may face.

Kind of doubt that they are at risk in not finishing their education by the time the HO makes a decision. Your biggest concern is taking advantage of the 14 year rule before it dissappears.

And before you get caught. If any of you are found by the Home Office before you make the application you will be issued with a removal notice, and then you will be stuffed.

You must make these applications as soon as possible to stand any chance of staying.

Victoria

I agree to all the above valuable advice. Nothing much to add except a few things to clarify:

- Have you ever come in contact with Immigration Authorities in the past 15 years? Or have you been clandestine stayers ever since?
- Do you have a Home Office file and reference number?
- Do not volunteer any information to the Authorities about the way you obtained public funds and gained university education UNLESS you are clearly asked about this. Although it constitutes deception, this does not count as a major offence under the current Immigration Rules (which may change soon) preventing you from obtaining the status under LRC if you satisfy other criteria. Your mother will have to answer truthfully the question about public funds in the application form, however, not give any further information on how she has obtained them unless specifically asked by the caseworker.
- Get expert immigration advice before you apply. Explain everything in detail, as you explained on this forum.
- You need sufficient evidence of the length of your residence - you are saying that you do not hold valid passports. Do you have your old passports with entry stamp on them? Do you have utility bills, bank statements on all your names in the past 15 years? Suggest you keep them all in order and prepare them in advance.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your detailed response.
As far as your questions are concerned my answers are as follows.
-yes we have been in contact with immigration authorities. That was back in late 1997 when someone informed on us but because my mother had an ILR stamp in her passport even though they arrested and questioned her, she was released after a night. I can't deny that ILR although genuine was gained deceptivily. Ever since we have had no contact.At that time they only saw my mothers passport as although they asked for ours we said it was sent away for some documentations even though we did not have one. The ILR stamp was received in the middle of 1997 when my mum got a visa on her new passport to go to europe, on the way back she received the stamp.
Also I want to say that when we first started receiving benefits we managed to do it without having a passport.

Some of our relatives say because the immigration officials let my mum go, it means they accept we have right to live here and if we go to home office we are likily to get ILR stamps as we cauld point them towards their investigation and the only way this will not happen is if they know about our deception.
I don't want to take this route as we will always be under fear even if we do receive ILR and want to come clean and apply under the 14 year concession.

-as far as HO file or ref number is concerned we don't think we have one unless they made one when they arrested my mum?

-we are planning to get expert advice soon.

-as far as sufficient evidence is concerned we have records of council letters from as far back as late 1995. as for the first two years we lived with family members. although my mum did start working in early 1995 after she received her NI number. So I guess social should have record of her from then on. As far as we are concerned we received british education since we came here although for the first 2 years or so we did not use our surname. We also have records from schools from around 1996. I am also sure we can get the details from the school we went to. Also from middle of 1996 we also received child benefit.

I would also assume if it came to it, although we don't have the passport on which we came on with visitor visa. The british high commision will have some records again with a different surname. We used a different surname to arose less chance of being caught as my extended family had the same surname.

The only other thing at this moment that is stopping us from applying under long residence is my siblings are at university and we are scared that they won't be able to finish it if we did apply. My sis has only few months left, she finishes in june while my brother still has a year on top so won't be graduating until june 2009.
Regards,
bhaju

bhaju wrote: Some of our relatives say because the immigration officials let my mum go, it means they accept we have right to live here and if we go to home office we are likily to get ILR stamps as we cauld point them towards their investigation and the only way this will not happen is if they know about our deception.

Your relatives are wrong. You don't have any right to remain as far as I can see. Is your mother's ILR stamp genuine? What has she done with the passport since then?

bhaju wrote: As far as we are concerned we received british education since we came here although for the first 2 years or so we did not use our surname. We also have records from schools from around 1996. I am also sure we can get the details from the school we went to. Also from middle of 1996 we also received child benefit.

I would also assume if it came to it, although we don't have the passport on which we came on with visitor visa. The british high commision will have some records again with a different surname. We used a different surname to arose less chance of being caught as my extended family had the same surname.

How would having visas in a different surname help you? How does that prove that you are the same person? Likewise with the school records.

bhaju wrote: The only other thing at this moment that is stopping us from applying under long residence is my siblings are at university and we are scared that they won't be able to finish it if we did apply. My sis has only few months left, she finishes in june while my brother still has a year on top so won't be graduating until june 2009.
Regards,
bhaju

It is up to you to wait until you apply. Obviously as you are all over 18 you all have to make separate applications - but this could take a very long time in each case. How will your sister continue her medical training? Do they check visas/passports before awarding the training?

You will also need to find your old passports, as I'm sure the HO would want to see when you first entered the country.

Isn't there a danger here that the 14-year ILR application can be refused because of deception due to the use of false names?

It is almost certain. Take a look at

MO Ghana [2007] UKAIT 00014

Victoria

bhaju, I would advise you to get a good immigration consultant/lawyer because your case is not straightforward. Give it some careful thinking because you don't want this to come back and haunt you later on.

You can also give the lady above a try as she already knows some of the details of your case.

Thank you for all your remarks.

I know my case is quite complex. But am I not right in thinking that it will be very difficult for my mother to gain ILR but the difficulty is much less as far as me and my siblings are concerned.

Firstly we all came here at a young age i.e. 5,9 and 11 and the choice was not ours to make in the first place (don't we have grounds under human rights to gain settlement?). We are intigrated in this society, our home country is like alien to us, wouldn't all this count. All our friends are british, we strong family connections as well as strong compassionate grounds as we only came to this country after our father died and my uncle who was looking after us after his death was murdered. On top of that me and my siblings have made the best of oppurtunity given to us, and will be contributing taxpayers and won't be burden on the state as we will all be starting over careers soon. My siblings also have very high earning potential, One is potentially an investment banker as he already has an offer of intership at one of largest investment banks in the world other will be highly qualified doctor.

say if our applications are rejected, would't the appeal judge take a different view (i am guessing they will give us as right to appeal?).
Also wouldn't it be an own goal as UK is always tryng to attract the best tallent from around the world. I am sure many other western countries will happily accept my sibblings if they decided to apply with all their qualifications and talents.

Regards,
Bhaju

The HO is taking a hard-line stance on deception and you have used false names in the first two years. Get a good immigration professional that will construct a good case, argue it well, and most important of all, not strike an own goal on yourself because of the deception.

yes you are right deception is a issue but don't you think that that is only a problem that will affect my mums application as we (her children) were only children at the time. They can't possibly hold us responsible for that! or can they?

bhaju

hi,
Jeff Albright

You have private mail.

Regards,
Bhaju

Hey

Replied to your pm, but my message got stuck in my "Outbox" and did not go to the "Sent" folder for some reason.
If you have not received it, please send me your email address via ppm and I will re-send the message.

Cheers

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your input received your message.

Regards,
Bhaju

Two concerns (out of many)

1. Won't the Home Office refuse because of the deception in using forged documents (effective from the 29 February)? I know it specifies HSMP but some caseworkers might have a hey-ho approach to applying this before April. Or am I rambling..?

2. Bhaju, the Home Office might want to argue that such a highly qualified family would have no problem adjusting to life back home and getting good jobs etc. And with the additional support of the settled family here, there would be no problem in resettling. Also why couldn't the family here have supported you to help prevent the no recourse to public funds breach. Which is still continuing with the home based university fees...

If your contact in 1997 with the Home Office negated your application under the 14 year or even the 7 year concession, this will make your situation even more difficult.

Unfortunately in terms of your siblings all being minors when your mother came here.. it's a case of the sins of the father (or in this case the mother)..

I think that in addition to the advice given above, you need to look get an adviser experienced in proportionality and get some very good character references for the whole family.

jei2 wrote: 1. Won't the Home Office refuse because of the deception in using forged documents (effective from the 29 February)? I know it specifies HSMP but some caseworkers might have a hey-ho approach to applying this before April. Or am I rambling..?

The HO will refuse if they have evidence of fraudulent documents. There is no such evidence. I believe the HO have no file on Bhaju's mother, as such they have no evidence to show how her ILR stamp turned in her passport. If the ILR stamp is genuine and there are no other documents, I see no problem of her going ahead and applying for citizenship.

Jeff, you are talking categorically about there being no such evidence. We are not sure here what the IO wrote on the mother's landing card when she was granted ILR and what documents were archived.

Moreover, do you know if a file was made and what was kept in that file when the mother was arrested and an investigation presumably started? They may not have had enough evidence then to do anything but you never know.

Now, if she applies for citizenship based on the fraudulent ILR, she can be stripped of her ILR and citizenship in the future if she is found out. She has been grassed upon before and it may happen again.

It's not hard to imagine how somebody knowing about the fraudulent ILR and abuse of the benefit system would not be very happy about the situation, putting it mildly.

Bhaju, having picked through your post again, I'm kind of in Jeff's camp on your next possible course of action.

Three words also come to mind. Deed. Poll. Afterwards.

Do you know what your mother said when she was detained and presumably interviewed in 1997? She could always try requesting her file from the Home Office's Subject Access bureau.

If you want to come clean you will almost certainly need to concentrate on building your good characters. Bearing in mind that you have all knowingly continued your mother's deception into your own adulthood...

Although I've heard that personal letters of apology can be helpful, try to avoid too much pathos and focus on the more practical issues of your previous or current contribution to this great country.

For example has any of the family ever done voluntary work? Have any of you provided care or support to British or settled persons? Might your removal mean that loss of that care would place an additional burden on the state through the need for Social Services etc?. Try and get letters of support and recommendation. Lots of them.

Lots and lots and lots of luck.

I have given Bhaju by ppm my opinion in detail on how I believe she should proceed.
Bhaju, I also told you re landing cards, which answers Paul's concerns.

Perhaps it might be wise to first sort your and your siblings situation out (by giving yourselves a few years to accomplish this) and then move on to your mum's case. One would say "let sleeping dogs lie" in regard to her ILR, which can be dealt with at any time in the future. If your case succeeds, at least there will be no immediate threat of removal to the majority of the family members.
I cannot be 100% sure on this, however, as this might bring your mum's case to the surface, as well. Who knows... but I think you should take the plunge and begin somewhere. But not without expert immigration advice duly obtained.
Suggest you contact someone with substantial experience in immigration, perhaps those who used to work for the IND in the past and who know the internal casework procedures. Most of those firms do not offer legal aid, unfortunately and their fees are very high.
I have heard that Paul Smith solicitors (I tried to search for them, cannot track them down from OZ IP, it does not come up on Google here but if you do a search from your end in the UK, you might find them quickly). They employ a few people who worked for IND in the past.
Also Trevor Wornham www.wornham.co.uk is extremely experienced solicitor but he does not do legal aid.

May force be with you! Keep us posted.