New and need help!

Hi guys, I hope you can help me.

I am a British citizen living in the UK with my New Zealander husband who has indefinite leave to remain in the UK. He has held that for almost 6 years, and he has lived in the UK with me for 7 years since our marriage in 2001.
However we are going to move to Australia to live at the end of this year and we have some questions which I hope you can help with;

(1) My husbands IDL (indefinite leave to remain) will lapse if he lives outside of the UK for over 2 years. How easy will it be for him to be granted another indefinite leave to remain visa if we decide to come back to live in the UK in say, 5 years time?
(2) When we decide to return to the UK say in 5 years time can my husband apply for another period of indefinite leave to remain before we arrive back in the UK (eg can he apply from Australia) so that he can enter the UK being already in possession of indefinite leave to remain? Or does he have to apply from inside the UK for indefinite leave to remain?
(3) If he can apply for another visa for indefinite leave to remain before he arrives back in the UK will he have to take a "life in the UK" test? Is he apply to do this test abroad (in Australia) ?
(4) We are thinking about getting British naturalisation for my husband as he qualifies for this. However is this something he can apply for from abroad? (ie, Australia) or does he have to still live in the UK to apply for naturalisation?

Sorry for the many questions and thanks in advance for any help you can offer! It is much appreciated.

1. He will most likely lose his ILR if he is out of the country for five years.
2. If 1 is true, then he will need to obtain a new spouse visa.
3. He would qualify for ILE (Indefinite Leave to Enter, which is treated more or less the same as ILR once he enters the UK) from the British High Commission in Canberra, but he would need to come to the UK to take a test in order to obtain that. This is the worst possible idea as things are going to change a great deal and he would just be going back onto limited leave after all this.

He should obtain British citizenship NOW because;
a. he qualifies immediately for naturalisation
b. he can apply to become a British citizen right now (if he can afford is and he MUST take the life in the UK test)
c. he can hold dual citizenship and return the the UK as and whenever he likes
d. the whole process will probably be completed before you move at the end of the year.

I believe the application can be made out of country HOWEVER, I think that as he needs to attend the Citizenship ceremony (to obtain his Certificate of Naturalisation) and there are now mandatory interviews for all first time adult British passport applicants, he'd probably need to be in the UK (someone else can clarify). But if he applies now, it should be sorted out by summertime.

If he stays out of the UK past two years then he will lose his ILR BUT he may be able to return after that as a Returning Resident. If he does, there is no need for the Life in the UK test - he will just be given his ILE immediately.

However, it is probably easiest if he naturalises now.

Victoria

Thanks for the replies guys. Appreciate your help. X

Mrs Kiwi, any reason why your husband has not applied for Naturalisation as British years ago?

Just to add: I think he can probably attend a naturalisation ceremony overseas (as he is married to a British citizen, there is no requirement for him to be intending to stay living the UK anyway), although I don't know how often such ceremonies would be held in Australia, and they would be probably be held only in Canberra (I guess).

However, if he applies for naturalisation now, it is very likely that he will be able to have his ceremony before he leaves the UK later this year: no promises, of course, but the naturalisation process is often quite quick now, it seems.

He can apply for a British passport overseas once he is a British citizen. [Millions of people do this, including first-time passport applicants - after all, some British citizens by descent have never set foot in the UK), and of course the British High Commission in Canberra is one of the largest overseas issuers of British passports, possibly the largest. I don't know if he would have to attend an interview, though - he would, I assume. Again, if he could apply for a British passport before he left the UK, that might be easier, although I'm sure he'll have lots of other things to think about between now and then!]

I think he can probably attend a naturalisation ceremony overseas

I do not think that is possible. I think the Citizenship Ceremony needs to be in the UK.

But, quite right, after he is British, given the marriage to a British spouse, there is no need to stay living in the UK.

John wrote:

I think he can probably attend a naturalisation ceremony overseas

I do not think that is possible. I think the Citizenship Ceremony needs to be in the UK.

Citizenship ceremonies can be done overseas. They are already doing this for registration applicants, many of whom never live in the U.K.

sakura wrote: I believe the application can be made out of country

In theory, yes, for the spouse of a British citizen with ILR, who is not required to intend to live in the U.K.

However, in practice:

1. The application would have to be submitted to a British diplomatic mission overseas. They are legally obliged to accept such application but many of them won't understand this and will (illegally) try to refuse.

2. Facilities to do the Life in the UK Test at a British mission overseas are limited to non-existent.

3. After 90 days outside the United Kingdom, one element of the residence requirement is no longer met (assessed at time of application) and the application would therefore be heading straight for refusal.

Thanks for the advice guys.
In answer to your question John my husband has never applied for naturalisation before simply because he didn't need it.
It has only arisen as the best thing to do now as we are heading to Oz to live and his Indefinite Leave to Remain lapses after he is out of the UK for over 2 years.
After all the advice given I think we will apply for naturalisation here and hopefully get the application, the citizenship ceremony and his British passport sorted before we leave but its a BIG comfort to know that he can apply for his British passport from Oz if necessary.
I must confess, though, to being a bit fed up about my husband having to get naturalisation in order to be guaranteed the right to work in the UK if we ever return from Oz.
Surely as a British citizen I should be able to rely on the fact that my husband of several years who is from a Commonwealth country will be allowed back into the UK with me and be granted another period of indefinite leave to remain?
Can anyone out there seriously believe that there may come a time when spouses of British citizens are refused indefinite leave to remain in the UK ? (If the marriage is genuine and provable etc...)

Mrs Kiwi, as much as anyone might share your concerns, it will not help. There need to be rules in place, and unfortunately those rules cut sometimes have unfortunate side effects. Hey, that sounds like I am defending the Government. Heaven forbid, it is just that whoever put a set of rules in place it is bound not to be perfect.

Look upon it this way ... your husband getting Naturalisation now could well save a lot of money in the future! That is, getting a British passport could well be distinctly cheaper than applying for visas in the years to come.

John wrote:Look upon it this way ... your husband getting Naturalisation now could well save a lot of money in the future! That is, getting a British passport could well be distinctly cheaper than applying for visas in the years to come.

A lot of money, and a lot of time and hassle too.

Mrs Kiwi wrote: Surely as a British citizen I should be able to rely on the fact that my husband of several years who is from a Commonwealth country will be allowed back into the UK with me and be granted another period of indefinite leave to remain?
Can anyone out there seriously believe that there may come a time when spouses of British citizens are refused indefinite leave to remain in the UK ? (If the marriage is genuine and provable etc...)

Commonwealth is becoming meaningless now, from an immigration point of view.

It is entirely possible that a future government will decide to significantly restrict spouse migration to the UK. Already, a minimum age limit of 21 and English language tests for spouses are in the pipeline and more restrictions will likely follow.

I am of the view that the next 20-30 years will see a reversal of many of the "globalisation" trends we've seen recently and in that context it may become a lot harder to migrate anywhere.

And if you were deceased, you would not be able to sponsor for anything.

There are literally thousands of people in the U.K. who used to live in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States (often for a long time), would love to return but have no chance of doing so because they did't get their citizenship when eligible and then abandoned their resident status.

Christophe wrote:A lot of money, and a lot of time and hassle too.

Really? Yes the need to study for and pass the Citizenship Test, but having achieved that, merely a question of submitting the application, and yes paying the application fee, but these days for lots of applicants it only takes a couple of months to receive the "application successful" letter.

Compare that application fee with the alternative, ongoing fees for visas ..... suggest it is obvious which would be the better financial deal in the long run.

JAJ wrote:And if you were deceased, you would not be able to sponsor for anything.

Very good point. Going the visa route he is totally dependent upon his wife sponsoring him.

John wrote:

Christophe wrote:A lot of money, and a lot of time and hassle too.

Really? Yes the need to study for and pass the Citizenship Test, but having achieved that, merely a question of submitting the application, and yes paying the application fee, but these days for lots of applicants it only takes a couple of months to receive the "application successful" letter.

Compare that application fee with the alternative, ongoing fees for visas ..... suggest it is obvious which would be the better financial deal in the long run.

Sorry, I obviously didn't express myself clearly (and looking at my post now, I can see that I didn't). What I meant was that by becoming a British citizen now, Mrs Kiwi's husband could avoid having to spend a lot of money and undergo a lot of hassle later - not the opposite. I think he should definitely seen naturalisation now.

As JAJ said, we just don't know what the future will bring in terms of the British immigration laws, never mind in terms of international migration trends. Equally, I'd add to Mrs Kiwi, she doesn't know what the future will bring for her and her husband: the plan now might be to remain living outside the UK, but things can change and often do.

Thanks guys, you guys have a lot more experience than me in this field so I appreciate your advice and although I may be fed up, I'm certainly not silly. I won't ever risk my husband and I not being together in the UK so I understand that naturalisation is the only way to guarantee this and will therefore go down that route asap.

This post is not about my gripes with the UK immigration system but just to briefly explain why I am fed up my husband and were left with no option than to get married 7 years ago for him to be able to remain & work in the UK and I guess I just wished that the UK immigration system recognised de facto relationships as Oz and Nz do.

Don't get me wrong, we would have got married eventually anyway but at a time of our choosing would have been preferable! As it was our relationship was only 18 months old and as my Kiwi husband didn't have any British ancestry, was too old for a working holiday visa and didn't have a skill that was needed in the UK we had to get married for him to stay with me in the UK.

Anyway, gripe over, I promise! The experience didn't harm my relationship but I do believe having to get married obviously put pressure on that would not have otherwise been there. At least Oz and NZ recognise that living together is valid.

I also need to apply to Australia House in London for my visa to work in Oz simultaenously to my husband applying for British naturalisation - JAJ mentioned in another post/forum that I can do this as both applications will only require certified copies (of passports, birth certs etc..) - who do I go to to certify these documents? Is a solicitor ok? Or is it better to go to the Nationality Checking Service that councils in the UK offer?
Many thanks again for the comments & advice
Mrs Kiwi

Mrs Kiwi, it is recommended that your husband applies for his Naturalisation using the NCS service. In that way the passports will only be out of your possession for a couple of minutes, while they take the photocopies that they need.

For details about NCS .... click here.

But first a little matter of him needing to pass the Life in the UK Citizenship test.

Ha ha, yes, my husband is booked in for the Life in the UK at the end of March to give him some time to study for it! At least we have had a bit of fun competing against each other in the mock tests on line. There are many questions most Brits wouldn't know! But we have the Jouney to Citizenship book so he'll pass first time hopefully.

Mrs Kiwi wrote: This post is not about my gripes with the UK immigration system but just to briefly explain why I am fed up my husband and were left with no option than to get married 7 years ago for him to be able to remain & work in the UK and I guess I just wished that the UK immigration system recognised de facto relationships as Oz and Nz do.

It does now (but not for naturalisation), although the cohabitation requirement is 2 years.

- who do I go to to certify these documents? Is a solicitor ok? Or is it better to go to the Nationality Checking Service that councils in the UK offer?

Solictor is ok (some are expensive so shop around) but the Nationality Checking Service is normally preferable. You don't have to live in the relevant council area to use NCS.

Thanks guys.