Elderly Parent - Settlement Application Refused - Hilarious reason

Country Y would be considered cheap for care compared to the USA for example.

As my links I already provided state, you have to prove that the care is not affordable and available in the home country (i.e. a carer for example or an elderly home for example), which is difficult to prove for Country Y.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:33 pm

Country Y would be considered cheap for care compared to the USA for example.

As my links I already provided state, you have to prove that the care is not affordable and available in the home country (i.e. a carer for example or an elderly home for example), which is difficult to prove for Country Y.

As i mentioned already, it has nothing to do with the costs or medical facilities. The issue is that emotional support from a family member is required, and I am the only family member available!

Any comments on the questions that I had actually asked in the earlier post, please?

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:33 pm

Country Y would be considered cheap for care compared to the USA for example.

As my links I already provided state, you have to prove that the care is not affordable and available in the home country (i.e. a carer for example or an elderly home for example), which is difficult to prove for Country Y.

As i mentioned already, it has nothing to do with the costs or medical facilities. The issue is that emotional support from a family member is required, and I am the only family member available!

Any comments on the questions that I had actually asked in the earlier post, please?

Son_of_Tarar wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:26 pm

Hello again,

Over the last few weeks, I have been talking to the solicitors and unfortunately, I am very disappointed with the service that I have received. They charge huge amounts for the initial assessment but do not go through all of the documentation provided.

In summary, I have been advise to add following to the appeal

- Letter from the doctor that further emphasise that why personal care from a close member of the family is required
- Letter from the doctor that confirms that I have developed bad health by staying outside the UK - due to stress, no job and spending money
- Medical reports from the doctor that show that my wife needs medical treatment. She is on a UK spouse visa and entitled to the UK NHS but we are unable to go because of the current situation at home. She must travel to the UK by November or there can be health issues.

I have also spoken to the local MP and after reviewing my case they are happy to raise it with UKVI and request them to review the case on compassionate grounds/exceptional circumstances

I now have following more question

1. I will be posting appeal letter, forms, sponsor letter (old submission copy) and the new evidences. The sponsor letter refers to the evidences that were provided with the original application. Do I need to send them again or is it okay to refer to them assuming the record is available to the UKVI already. PS documents were posted to the UK address and I have not received them yet being outside the country

2. Bringing in my wife and my health issue, I am doing a mistake and if not, is it alright to make the statement that if I suffer through major illness or injury due to the conditions in Country Y, I will hold UKVI and Home office will be responsible for that

Now, if MP gets involved and I evidence that there are serious issues related to my health and security by staying outside the UK, are there chances that ECM will be able to review the decision within a week or so?


finally, Is there a specific format in which I must write the appeal letter explaining all the points.

Many Thanks,

BAVA

Hi All, any comments on the quoted text please?
I will appreciate your help on the points listed above and if there is anything that I can add to the appeal - Many thanks

The first part seems fine, but don't add any of the text around your "question" section as your reasoning is poor. You should hold the government of Country Y responsible for your illness and injury as that is where you are currently, the situation of the country has nothing to do with the UK. Also, your wife being unable to settle in the UK is not something you can use in your argument to bring your mother over as it potentially proves that you don't have strong ties to have to live in the UK.

Your health and safety whilst your are outside of the UK in a country where you hold citizenship is the responsibility of the government of that country, not the responsibility of the UK. Do not use this in an argument as the reasoning doesn't make sense.

I appreciate that you might be unable to see it as you are living and breathing it.

mulderpf wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:57 am

The first part seems fine, but don't add any of the text around your "question" section as your reasoning is poor. You should hold the government of Country Y responsible for your illness and injury as that is where you are currently, the situation of the country has nothing to do with the UK. Also, your wife being unable to settle in the UK is not something you can use in your argument to bring your mother over as it potentially proves that you don't have strong ties to have to live in the UK.

Your health and safety whilst your are outside of the UK in a country where you hold citizenship is the responsibility of the government of that country, not the responsibility of the UK. Do not use this in an argument as the reasoning doesn't make sense.

I appreciate that you might be unable to see it as you are living and breathing it.

Many thanks for your reply, MULDERPF

What I understood from your reply is outlined below

- Provide evidence and more details about my mother's medical situation
- Provide details about my unemployment and stress situation it has caused
- request the case to be dealt on compassionate grounds because I need to get back sooner


What I am unclear is bringing in my wife's issue. For medical reasons, she must travel within a month,
shall we not refer to her at all or is it safe to say that this being another reason
we need the case to be reviewed on a priority

I am afraid and as you highlighted bringing in my wife's issue will just cause the distraction. So, if you can further elaborate on that then it will be great


I have got the point around safety and security but will emphasise that I look forward to resuming my life in the UK

again, thank you very much for your response

Hi All,

Thanks for your continuous support. I now have another question regarding the appeal

I am given IAFT-6 form to submit the appeal and I understand that this can be done online and/or the form can be posted to the Tribunal.

I understand that my case for elderly dependent sits under "human rights law"

The confusion however is the following question in the IAFT-6

Grounds of your appeal
----------------------
Human Rights Decision
1. Please explain which article of the Human rights Act you are appealing under and give reasons to support your claim

Question: My case was refused under EC-DR1.1, E-ECDR2.2 & ECO believed that there are no exceptional circumstances under GEN3.1 & 3.2


Can you please what needs to be put into the box when I am trying to prove that ECO has ignored the details provided and that there are exceptional circumstances? I had thought that I will only detail the grounds of appeal (for which I have also written a detailed letter) but I am not sure how to fill in this section.


I will much appreciate your help on this as I have not been able to get hold of a good solicitor that can help

hi again,

can someone please tell what could be the reason for UKVI to send me IAFT-6 and not IAFT-2

I am not sure which part of the section d-grounds of your appeal I need to fill

Human rights decision or EEA decision

since my elderly parents is not an EEA member, I suppose human rights decision apply. But in that case it asks "please explain which articles of the human rights act you are appealing under and give reasons to support your claim"
Here, I am not sure what articles to mention

can someone please help?

hi All,

ILR for my elderly parent was refused and a hearing date after 7 months has been allocated. However, I believe this is is not possible for us to wait for that long and therefore I would like to expedite the appeal and can provide the evidence of change in the circumstances.

Can you please tell that at this stage if local MP can assist and also will the request to expedite still go to a Duty Judge even that the hearing date has been announced.

Many Thanks,

Son_of_Tarar wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:57 am

hi All,

ILR for my elderly parent was refused and a hearing date after 7 months has been allocated. However, I believe this is is not possible for us to wait for that long and therefore I would like to expedite the appeal and can provide the evidence of change in the circumstances.

Can you please tell that at this stage if local MP can assist and also will the request to expedite still go to a Duty Judge even that the hearing date has been announced.

Many Thanks,

Hi,

Can you state the reason as to why it was refused.

it was refused as the ECO believed that there are alternate care arrangements available for the look after of my elderly parent.

The question is, can the hearing date be brought forward and if yes, how can this be done?

1. Useful to stick to an existing topic to avoid all the same questions being asked again.

2. They did not apply for ILR but for an elderly dependent visa.

Thanks for the clarification CR001,

yes, we applied for an Elderly dependent visa ( I keep confusing it with ILR as I believe this is what they would have issued if the application was successful)

Can you please tell, Is it okay if I ask in the same thread on how the hearing date for her appeal can be brought forward?

Can you please tell, Is it okay if I ask in the same thread on how the hearing date for her appeal can be brought forward?

Keep all questions on the same application in this topic.

See also Multiple Topics/Posts (click)

hi All,

The ECM maintained the decision and maintained the reason that there are alternate arrangements available in the home country of the applicant. This is despite the fact that we explained in the cover letter that the arrangements are only short-term. ECM put a blind eye to the clarifications.

Now we have got a hearing date later in the year. The situation, however, has changed as the sponsor who was providing the temporary look after has now come back to the UK for personal reasons.

The applicant now has temporary cover from other relatives. These relatives have already given the affidavit that they cannot provide the care to the applicant on long-term basis.

Can you please now help me with the following dates

1. Can we still submit an expedited appeal request and bring forward the date
2. Can local MP help us at this stage
3. Is there any possibility of success if we apply for a visit visa in parallel. The grounds will be that I can provide the support for six months and after that, another relative at back home will provide six months cover in one year.
4. Can we still write to the UKHO and bring their attention to the change in situation as they may like to review the decision

You all have been very helpful before and I will appreciate your help again on this matter

At the day end, I want my elderly parent to be with me and if you can give any advice that can help me achieve this target then it will be greatly appreciated

3. Is there any possibility of success if we apply for a visit visa in parallel. The grounds will be that I can provide the support for six months and after that, another relative at back home will provide six months cover in one year.

A visitor visa application will fail due to the intention to settled now being known.

Hi,

can you please help me understand how can I prove that my mother needs emotional support. All I have is a note from the medical doctor and psychiatrists that believe she should not be left unattended and should stay close to her family.

Is there anything else that I can provide as an evidence?
Thank you,

I think you are approaching the question in an entirely irrelevant manner. The way the Rules have been written for Adult Dependent Relatives is precisely to exclude any emotional consideration. The requirements are coached in specific financial terms and emotional support is irrelevant. Once you understand that, you will see that the way forward does not rely upon the Immigration Rules.

Therefore, let's look at the human rights side of things. Do you have a human right to have your family with you? Yes. Does that mean that your family has a right to reside with you in the UK? No. That is because you can reside with your family outside the UK. Indeed, I think that you have actually weakened any human rights claim (in the UK) by residing with your mother in a country where you also hold nationality (and therefore most likely the right to reside unconditionally). Therefore, there is no restriction on you being able to reside with your mother and wife outside the UK in Country Y. Indeed, I think that is what the ECO was referring to in the refusal letter.

To get an idea of the interaction between human rights and the Immigration Rules, I suggest that you read through the UK Supreme Court judgment in the MM Case, which is about whether the Immigration Rules requirement for a Minimum Income Requirement to bring non-EEA spouses into the UK, a requirement that cannot be met by about 60% of the UK population, is against human rights. The UK Supreme Court decided that having an MIR restricting the ability of non-EEA spouses to move to the UK was not against human rights. I suggest that you read paragraphs 80-87 in detail and also peruse paragraphs 40 onwards for a more detailed understanding of the balance to be stuck between the Immigration Rules (and the public wish to restrict immigration) and human (individual) rights.

NOTE: The MM Case does not apply directly to your case. I am offering it as an analogy to your human rights claim of residing with your family vs the Immigration Rules.

As a British citizen, you have an unconditional right to reside (the Right of Abode) in the UK for yourself. It is a personal right, not a familial right. You can choose to reside in the UK keeping in mind the immigration hurdles or you can choose to reside in another country (of which you also hold nationality) with your family. It is a choice that you have to make for yourself.

This is my non-legal opinion and you may entirely disagree. But I suggest that you reflect on it.

Dear Secret.Simon,

First of all, I sincerely appreciate your reply. I can see that you have spent a lot time reading through my case and given me very relevant advice and guidance

Let me please comment on some of your very valuable points

“The requirements are coached in specific financial terms and emotional support is irrelevant. “
- The issue is not financial at all. It is purely the emotional and personal support requirement. When I say personal support and care I refer to the level of trust, security and other family issues. The ECO and ECM have referred to the emotional support requirement and believe that much evidence has not been provided.

“Do you have a human right to have your family with you? Yes. Does that mean that your family has a right to reside with you in the UK? No. That is because you can reside with your family outside the UK.”
- I understand your point but I have also explained that it is not suitable for my own safety and work reasons too

MM Case
- I will definitely read through this

Current Situation:
- ECM refused the review application as they could not see sufficient detaisl on the emotional side. And most importantly they believe that since I am with her she is getting the required support
- ECM refused the request for the review on human rights grounds since I was with her and she is getting the required support. The request was also made by the local MP
- The appeal has been lodged
- For my urgent work, family reasons I have returned to the UK
- At this time she is only getting support from the sources that are temporary. This was explained in the original application and the review letter too

This is a genuine case and I am just struggling to prove my point. Even if under human rights claim, I am unable to understand what type of evidence I can provide. There are people who have managed to bring their dependent relatives to the UK in similar situations. However, they are not sharing many details
So, any further help and guidance will be much appreciated on this, please

E-ECDR.2.5. wrote:The applicant or, if the applicant and their partner are the sponsor’s parents or grandparents, the applicant’s partner, must be unable, even with the practical and financial help of the sponsor, to obtain the required level of care in the country where they are living, because-

(a) it is not available and there is no person in that country who can reasonably provide it; or
(b) it is not affordable.

It’s difficult enough proving a negative.

You may have inadvertently given them ammunition to refuse. You have shown that the required level of care in the country where they are living is available and there is a person in that country who can reasonably provide it (namely, yourself). It is affordable because you have been affording it.

They could also say that Human rights is not engaged because you are already with her.

See also Amber’s helpful topic.

Thanks, Vinny,

But as I said earlier, I am now back to the UK and there are no long-term/permanent arrangements for my mother's care available. So the support is definitely not available to her in the long-term. Even the current support and me not being there has severely impacted her health

Also, I am still paying all the bills so financial dependency still exists anyway.

As Secret.Simon highlighted the point is to think around human rights grounds. If you can make a suggestion as to what evidences I may provide then it will be much appreciated

Hi All,

I hope you are doing fine. I appreciate that all of you have been helping me sand now I am back with a few more questions.

Taking the point of following points of Secret_Simon,
1. Do you have a human right to have your family with you? Yes.
2. Does that mean that your family has a right to reside with you in the UK? No.
a. That is because you can reside with your family outside the UK

Latest Situation:
- ADR is in Country Y and being looked after by the relatives who confirmed at the time of the application that they can do this on short-term basis only
- ADR was hospitalised recently due to the stress situation
- ADR is unable to settle without the sponsor/UK citizen in Country Y
- The sponsor is living in the UK with his family/spouse since the visa refusal. He had to get back to resume his work life in the UK
- The sponsor now has a job in the UK with which he can afford family and provide all the required care to ADR without any recourse to public fund
- The sponsor was in Country Y during the last year but at that time he was jobless and even after returning back to the UK did not claim any benefit
- The appeal hearing will be in about a 1.5 month

Questions:
- Does it make any difference that now the sponsor is back to the UK and has a family life in the UK
- Having a good job in the UK and evidence that he was jobless in Country Y - will that make a difference
- The family life is definitely getting impacted as the ADRs medical situation has got worse - Does it now justify for Human Rights claim?

Finally,
I've heard that in a appeal hearing if one goes at own, the solitor from the other side would tear you apart and therefore it is a must to have barrister along you. Also, I am told that judges do not give much time to the people who have come at their own,

1. Do you advise using a barrister even though when I am very clear of all the facts and want to present them with honesty, or is it worth having a barrister who can make legal points?
2. What if sponsor have a UK born baby that he would not like to take to Country Y? - is it not enough that the sponsor cannot relocate back to Country Y anymore even though at the time of application he was there to provide the required support?

3. What is appeal bundle? Tge FTT staff is saying that the bundle sent for earlier escalation can be used for this purpose but not sure if the statement shoudl be trusted