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EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

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Djawade
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Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Djawade » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:13 pm

Djawade wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:15 pm
Djawade wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:23 pm
Djawade wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:52 am
My time line second application
Posted :19/07/17
Payment take:26/07/17
Biemetric and CR : 26/08/17
Statue still waiting for decision
Anyone from late July pls

So frustrating more the 10 days and nothing yet, called the home office twice a week the same unswer we gonna contact you !!!

Last abdate statue : decided 22/10/17
I’m waiting the letter
Still waiting nothing has been received so far so worried !! Hope I get it soon

Alper1982
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Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:53 am
Mood:
Turkey

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Alper1982 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:44 am

Alper1982 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:16 am
Alper1982 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:03 am
Alper1982 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:13 am
Hi All,
Married couple, Lithuanian wife and Turkish Husband. Here is the our application time line
Application posted on : 19/07/2017
Payment taken on : 22/07/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/08/17
Bio letter received on : ???
Biometrics Enrolled on : ???
COA With Work : ???
COA Without Work : ???
Resident Card Received on : ???
Documents Returned on : ???

Still waiting for Bio letter :( Do you guys know how long will Bio Letter take to arrive?

Thanks and good luck everyone!
Bio Letter received: 23/10/2017 (dated 19/10/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on: 24/10/2017
Now waiting for COA with Work
***Update***

Application posted on : 19/07/2017
Payment taken on : 22/07/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/08/17
Bio letter received on : 23/10/2017 (dated 19/10/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on : 24/10/2017
COA With Work : 01/11/2017 (Dated 27/10/2017)
Resident Card Received on : ???
Documents Returned on : ???

HO Sent my CoA in error to some address in Edinburgh (Can you believe this?!!!!) Thanks god they forward it to me with 1st Class. Let's see where is our passports will end up :)

Good luck Everyone!

Alps
****Update****

Application posted on : 19/07/2017
Payment taken on : 22/07/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/08/17
Bio letter received on : 23/10/2017 (dated 19/10/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on : 24/10/2017
COA With Work : 01/11/2017 (Dated 27/10/2017)
Resident Card (for Non- EEA) Received on : 07/11/2017 (Dated 01/11/2017) :)
Resident Card (for EEA) Received on: ???
Documents and Passports Returned on : ???

Good Luck Everyone!

Hopefully we will receive the rest soon :)

Sidali42
Junior Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:42 pm
Wales

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Sidali42 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am

Sidali42 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Application post on : 01/8/2017
Received by UKVI/HO: 02/08/2017
payment taken on : 08/08/2017
Bio letter received : 07/09/2017
Biometric enrolled on : 07/09/2017
COA With Work: 12/09/2017
Documents Return :???
Recident card received: ???
My application still waiting a decision but it does not show me the last update .

nzlost11
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Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:34 pm
Mood:
New Zealand

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by nzlost11 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:28 pm

Unmarried couple:

Application posted on : 17/10/17
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/10/17
Payment taken on :20/10/17
Email from HO: 31/10/17
Bio letter received on : 02/11/17
Biometrics Enrolled on : 02/11/17
COA Without Work : 02/11/17 (Will be appealing this as I hold a valid family permit)
Passports requested (EU and Non EU): 02/11/17
Passports returned: 08/11/17

Resident Card Received on :
Documents Returned on :

J10M
Newbie
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:04 am
South Africa

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by J10M » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:44 pm

J10M wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:54 am
Non-EEA (RSA) unmarried to EEA (Portugal) citizen.

Application online on : 18/10/2017
Payment taken: 18/10/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 19/10/2017
Home Office Email: 19/10/2017
Documents posted (passport return service): 23/10/2017
Biometrics letter Date: 30/10/2017
Biometrics letter received: 02/11/2017
Biometrics enrolled: 02/11/2017

So far two weeks from submission to bio-metric enrolment

COA With Work date: 06/11/2017
COA With Work: Received 09/11/2017
(happy about this due it being an unmarried partner application)

Online Status date:
Online Status Changed:
Resident Card date:
Resident Card Received on :
Documents Returned on:
Update:

COA With Work date: 06/11/2017
COA With Work: Received 09/11/2017
(happy about this due it being an unmarried partner application)

wegiwegi
Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:48 pm
Switzerland

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by wegiwegi » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:31 pm

UPDATE
Fourth application sent 21.07.17
HO received 24.07.17
Money taken 25.07.17
Acknowledge 22.08.17
Biometrics 23.08.17 dated 19.08.17
Passports requested 23.08.17
Emailed no COA received on the 04.09.17
COA received 07.09.17 dated 04.09.17
Passports received 07.09.16 dated 04.09.17
Status: Decided on 10.11.17
RC ?
Timeline:
Fourth application sent 21.07.17
HO received 24.07.17
Paid on 25.07.17
Biometrics 23.08.17
COA received 07.09.17
Passports received 07.09.16
Status: Decided on 10.11.17
Documents returned 13.11.17 dated 09
RC 13.11.17 dated 09

Elizabella
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Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:09 am
Canada

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Elizabella » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:51 am

EEA(FM) as spouse of employed QP

Application posted on 10/09/2017
Received by HO on 12/09/2017
Payment taken: 13/09/2017
Home Office Email (with case reference number): 25/09/2017
Requested return of documents: 25/09/2017
Biometrics letter received: 05/10/2017 (Dated 02/10/2017)
Biometrics enrolled: 10/10/2017
COA With Work : 19/10/2017 (Dated 16/10/2017)
Documents Returned on: 11/11/2017 (requested 25/09/2017)
Resident Card Received on :

Note -- there were no issues for me with requesting my documents (including passports) before getting biometrics letter or COA. They were originally posted 02/10 (same dates as my biometrics letter), but they got lost in the post and had to be returned to the Home Office by Royal Mail before they could be posted a second time.

Manu99
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:07 pm
Hungary

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Manu99 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:52 pm

Married to EU national.

Application posted on : 5/10/17
Payment taken on :09/10/17
Email from HO: 16/10/17
Bio letter received on : 25/10/17
Biometrics Enrolled on : 25/10/17
COA With Work :

Online status: Awaiting decision

Resident Card Received on :
Documents Returned on :

wegiwegi
Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:48 pm
Switzerland

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by wegiwegi » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:08 am

UPDATE
Fourth application sent 21.07.17
HO received 24.07.17
Money taken 25.07.17
Acknowledge 22.08.17
Biometrics 23.08.17 dated 19.08.17
Passports requested 23.08.17
Emailed no COA received on the 04.09.17
COA received 07.09.17 dated 04.09.17
Passports received 07.09.16 dated 04.09.17
Status: Decided on 10.11.17
Documents returned on 13.11.17 dated 09
RC on the way

In all 16 weeks, or 79 working days.

Good luck to all of you still waiting.
Timeline:
Fourth application sent 21.07.17
HO received 24.07.17
Paid on 25.07.17
Biometrics 23.08.17
COA received 07.09.17
Passports received 07.09.16
Status: Decided on 10.11.17
Documents returned 13.11.17 dated 09
RC 13.11.17 dated 09

wegiwegi
Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:48 pm
Switzerland

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by wegiwegi » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:22 pm

wegiwegi wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:08 am
UPDATE
Fourth application sent 21.07.17
HO received 24.07.17
Money taken 25.07.17
Acknowledge 22.08.17
Biometrics 23.08.17 dated 19.08.17
Passports requested 23.08.17
Emailed no COA received on the 04.09.17
COA received 07.09.17 dated 04.09.17
Passports received 07.09.16 dated 04.09.17
Status: Decided on 10.11.17
Documents returned on 13.11.17 dated 09
RC 13.11.17 dated 09

In all 16 weeks, or 79 working days.

Good luck to all of you still waiting.
Timeline:
Fourth application sent 21.07.17
HO received 24.07.17
Paid on 25.07.17
Biometrics 23.08.17
COA received 07.09.17
Passports received 07.09.16
Status: Decided on 10.11.17
Documents returned 13.11.17 dated 09
RC 13.11.17 dated 09

ledrox
Newly Registered
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by ledrox » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:35 pm

ledrox wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:33 pm
ledrox wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:25 am
EEA(QP) + EEA(FM) together

Application posted on 16/09/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on 18/09/2017
Payment taken: 21/09/2017
Home Office Email (with case reference number): 29/09/2017
Biometrics letter received: 02/10/2017 (Dated 28/09/2017)
Biometrics enroll: 03/10/2017
COA With Work : 20/10/2017 (Dated 17/10/2017)
Request Passport Back on: 05/11/2017
Documents Returned on: 13/11/2017 (dated 08/11/17)
Online Status: Not decided (14/11/2017)
Resident Card Received on :

Sidali42
Junior Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:42 pm
Wales

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Sidali42 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:09 am

Sidali42 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:56 am
Sidali42 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Application post on : 01/8/2017
Received by UKVI/HO: 02/08/2017
payment taken on : 08/08/2017
Bio letter received : 07/09/2017
Biometric enrolled on : 07/09/2017
COA With Work: 12/09/2017
Documents Return :13/11/2017
Recident card received: 13/11/2017
3 months and 11 days From the time they recived my application . The website still show waiting a decision . Good luck everyone

ospac345
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Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:44 pm
Pakistan

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by ospac345 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:17 pm

ospac345 wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:04 am
ospac345 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:55 pm
Application for Residence Card EEA(FM)

Application posted on: 07/08/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on: 08/08/2017
Payment taken on:10/08/2017
Bio letter received on:15/09/2017 (Dated 12/09/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on:19/09/2017
COA With Work: 05/10/2017 (Dated 03/10/2017)
Update.
Interview call at Liverpool EU applications Centre: on 15/11/2017 (Email received 03/11/2017)
Interview done very well today. Interviewer said it was a great interview. Hopefully get my document by next week
Resident Card Received on: ??
Documents Returned on: ??

ledrox
Newly Registered
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by ledrox » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:57 pm

ledrox wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:35 pm
ledrox wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:33 pm
ledrox wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:25 am
EEA(QP) + EEA(FM) together

Application posted on 16/09/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on 18/09/2017
Payment taken: 21/09/2017
Home Office Email (with case reference number): 29/09/2017
Biometrics letter received: 02/10/2017 (Dated 28/09/2017)
Biometrics enroll: 03/10/2017
COA With Work : 20/10/2017 (Dated 17/10/2017)
Request Passport Back on: 05/11/2017
Documents Returned on: 13/11/2017 (dated 08/11/17)
Online Status: awaiting decision (15/11/2017)
Resident Card Received on :

kvdv
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Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:58 am
Japan

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by kvdv » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:06 am

Spouse of EU citizen (Qualified person)

Application posted : 24/8/17
Received by Home office: 25/8/17
Payment taken out: 28/8/17
Confirmation e-mail received: 14/9/17
Biometrics letter received: 9/10/17 (dated on 5/10)
Biometrics enrolled: 9/10/17
Passport return request: 12/10/17
Passport returned: 19/10/2017
COA with work received: 21/10/17
Online status "Decided": 13/12/17
Documents returned: 15/11/17 (dated12/11/17)
Residence card received: 16/11/17 (issued 12/11)

12 weeks total. Good luck!

rossy1
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Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:58 pm
Nigeria

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by rossy1 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:44 pm

3rd Application
Application posted on :02/08/17
Received by UKVI/HO on : 03/08/17
Payment taken on :06/08/17
Bio letter received on :04/09/17
Biometrics Enrolled on : 04/09/17
COA With Work :13/11/17
COA Without Work :
Resident Card Received on :
Documents Returned on :
hoping for the best

Cool_ts
Newly Registered
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:41 am
Pakistan

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Cool_ts » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:18 am

Hi guys ,



3rd Application
Application posted on :01/11/17
Received by UKVI/HO on : 02/11/17
Payment taken on :06/11/17
Acknowledgement email :08/11/17
Biometrics Enrolled on : ———
COA With Work :——-
COA Without Work :———

Online status: Decided on 16/11/17 ( very strange )

one important thing SIA want to revoke my security license than my wife wrote a letter to HO (06/11/17) explain all situation along with SIA letter ( that my license will be revoke with 21 days ) if my status remain unverified. So now I am really confused if they are going to return my file for some reason or issues me a visa .

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25685
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Casa » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:09 am

Casa wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:52 am
Casa wrote:
CR001 wrote:To all members who contribute to this topic/thread, the following are the guidance to adhere to so that we do not end up with a timeline thread that runs into so many pages like the other one did and which has become a discussion thread, rather than an easily readable timeline thread, defeating the purpose of a TIMELINE thread:

1. This topic is for timelines and timeline updates ONLY.

2. ANY discussions, chit chat, question such as 'Any news for applications in XYZ Month / 6 months, no reply ...' ect, will be deleted and the user issued with a warning.

3. Most members who contribute to this thread will already have other recent queries or threads on the forum, i.e. 'Family Permit - Help Please' etc. If you need to ask a member something specific about their application, click on their name, search for their most recent NON timeline post and ask the question there. You are of course free to use the PM function for this too if you choose and if you have access to PM.

4. There will be zero tolerance of any abuse of the timeline thread.

5. No posting of personal contact details, please see Forum Terms & Conditions (click), particularly point 5.

6. The Format for posting your timeline is below.

7. This topic/thread will be monitored daily.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

lauralauralaura
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Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:18 pm
Mood:
Singapore

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by lauralauralaura » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:16 pm

Spouse of Swiss citizen (Qualified person)

Application posted : 25/10/17
Received by Home office: 26/10/17
Payment taken out: 30/10/17
Confirmation e-mail received: 3/11/17
Biometrics letter received: 9/11/17 (dated on 3/11)
Biometrics enrolled: 9/11/17
COA with work received: 20/11/17 (dated on 16/11)
Documents returned: ?
Residence card received: ?

KeMcS
Newly Registered
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:37 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by KeMcS » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:20 pm

KeMcS wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:08 pm
KeMcS wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:26 am
Application for residence card EEA(FM)

Eu citizen(Irish) and Non-Eu spouse(Turkish)

Application posted on: 09/10/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on: 10/10/2017
Payment taken on:11/10/2017
Email with case ID :20/10/2017
Biometrics letter received on:28/10/2017(dated 25/10/2017)
Biometrics submitted on:29/10/2017
Documents requested back on:31/10/2017
Documents received on:03/11/2017
COA received on:20/11/2017(dated 03/11/2017)
Decision made:
Documents received back on:

Hoping with these quick turnaround times that we won’t have to wait the full 6 months!

Toks88
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Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:39 pm
Mood:
Spain

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Toks88 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:55 pm

EEA FM application married to a Spanish National
Application sent : 18/10/2017
Application recieved: unknown
Acknowledgement email: 6/11/2017
Biometric Enrolment received: 9/11/2017 dated 3/11/2017
Biometric Enrolment Done: 14/11/2017
COA : Waiting

Alper1982
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Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:53 am
Mood:
Turkey

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Alper1982 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:57 am

Alper1982 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:44 am
Alper1982 wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:16 am
Alper1982 wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:03 am
Alper1982 wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:13 am
Hi All,
Married couple, Lithuanian wife and Turkish Husband. Here is the our application time line
Application posted on : 19/07/2017
Payment taken on : 22/07/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/08/17
Bio letter received on : ???
Biometrics Enrolled on : ???
COA With Work : ???
COA Without Work : ???
Resident Card Received on : ???
Documents Returned on : ???

Still waiting for Bio letter :( Do you guys know how long will Bio Letter take to arrive?

Thanks and good luck everyone!
Bio Letter received: 23/10/2017 (dated 19/10/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on: 24/10/2017
Now waiting for COA with Work
***Update***

Application posted on : 19/07/2017
Payment taken on : 22/07/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/08/17
Bio letter received on : 23/10/2017 (dated 19/10/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on : 24/10/2017
COA With Work : 01/11/2017 (Dated 27/10/2017)
Resident Card Received on : ???
Documents Returned on : ???

HO Sent my CoA in error to some address in Edinburgh (Can you believe this?!!!!) Thanks god they forward it to me with 1st Class. Let's see where is our passports will end up :)

Good luck Everyone!

Alps
****Update****

Application posted on : 19/07/2017
Payment taken on : 22/07/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on : 18/08/17
Bio letter received on : 23/10/2017 (dated 19/10/2017)
Biometrics Enrolled on : 24/10/2017
COA With Work : 01/11/2017 (Dated 27/10/2017)
Resident Card (for Non- EEA) Received on : 07/11/2017 (Dated 01/11/2017) :)
Resident Card (for EEA) Received on: ???
Documents and Passports Returned on : ???

Good Luck Everyone!

Hopefully we will receive the rest soon :)
Resident Card (for EEA) Received on: 21/11/2017
Documents and Passports Returned on : 21/11/2017

Al in all it took 4 months and 2 days

Good luck everyone! :D

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25685
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Casa » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:27 am

@europehelpme
This is a TIMELINE ONLY thread. Please respect this.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

User avatar
Casa
Moderator
Posts: 25685
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:32 pm

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by Casa » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:30 am

CR001 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:55 pm
To all members who contribute to this topic/thread, the following are the guidance to adhere to so that we do not end up with a timeline thread that runs into so many pages like the other one did and which has become a discussion thread, rather than an easily readable timeline thread, defeating the purpose of a TIMELINE thread:

1. This topic is for timelines and timeline updates ONLY.

2. ANY discussions, chit chat, question such as 'Any news for applications in XYZ Month / 6 months, no reply ...' ect, will be deleted and the user issued with a warning.

3. Most members who contribute to this thread will already have other recent queries or threads on the forum, i.e. 'Family Permit - Help Please' etc. If you need to ask a member something specific about their application, click on their name, search for their most recent NON timeline post and ask the question there. You are of course free to use the PM function for this too if you choose and if you have access to PM.

4. There will be zero tolerance of any abuse of the timeline thread.

5. No posting of personal contact details, please see Forum Terms & Conditions (click), particularly point 5.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

speedsound
Newly Registered
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:20 pm
Australia

Re: EEA(FM) EEA2 - TIMELINES ONLY

Post by speedsound » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:50 pm

EEA (FM)
Update second App

Application posted on: 16/10/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on: 17/10/2017
Payment taken on:19/10/2017
Email Acknowledgement: 24/10/2017
Bio letter received on:27/10/2017
Biometrics Enrolled on:28/10/2017
COA With Work: 02/11/2017
Resident Card Received on: ??
Documents Returned on: ??

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