UK residence card refused!

Obie wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:03 pm

My take on this is as follow:

1. You are able to challenge the notice by means of a Judicial review, on the basis that your wife is not subject to the 1971 act, as she has an enforceable community law right.

2. The cannot give her a removal notice without right of appeal, which she is most likely to win on Article 8 grounds, due to the strength of the convention right claim.

I do not agree that an application has to be made, or she faces a risk of detention or removal. that is not correct in my view.

Thanks Obie.
I will look into this. I hope that the judicial review is allowed as we are already pass the dates. As my understanding goes it should be within 3 months.
Let's see.

Cheers
Rydhwan

All,

Another update regarding our case.
So I have written letters to both HO and Tribunal. The tribunal changed the date to Jan 18 before.
I have got replies today.

In the HO letter they said that they can't discard the removal notice since Mrs has been served RED.0001 notice but they will not seek to remove her until her appeal is heard. I basically wrote to them asking them to either remove this notice or let us stay until the appeal is heard.

Second is from Tribunal as I wrote them to expedite the appeal date due to removal notice and asked them to bring it forward if possible. The new appeal is now back in December.

My new questions are relating to appeal.

I have already sent POU officers and tribunal some docs.
Since HO already got all other documents, I have sent POU new evidence only. i.e. letters from our neighbours in Ireland and EEA decision page from the appeal form.
Similarly I have submitted tribunal everything with appeal application so once the appeal is granted I had sent them a cover letter and letters from neighbours only.

What's the best advice to do a document bundle and do I need to send them everything or just new evidence? Also is it only my wife who is going to give evidence or shall I as her representative also speak on some matters?

Thanks in advance.

Preparing the case this week so any help regarding appeal and documentation would be great.

Regards,

Hi rydhwan,

When is your appeal?

Are you going to appeal within 2016 regulations or outside regulations challenging that the regulations are unlawful under EU law?

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi rydhwan,

When is your appeal?

Are you going to appeal within 2016 regulations or outside regulations challenging that the regulations are unlawful under EU law?

Hi,

I am going to appeal under 2016 regulations. We adhere to most points in 2016 other than the circumventing immigration which HO is trying to put on us. However I think I have evidence to prove that is not the case and just because I know the law and applied for Mrs visit visa here before doesn't negate that right.
The appeal is in 2nd week of December.

Regards

I was detained in one of those routine visits at the reporting centre but the judge released me on the grounds that I have a valid marriage with a UK citizen. My lawyer sent a further submission to the HO straight away and my husband is also suing the HO.

I would say, stick with the appeal under EEA regulations because the application under UK law should be submitted from outside the UK if the applicant has no valid leave to remain.

Tamandua wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:45 pm

I was detained in one of those routine visits at the reporting centre but the judge released me on the grounds that I have a valid marriage with a UK citizen. My lawyer sent a further submission to the HO straight away and my husband is also suing the HO.

I would say, stick with the appeal under EEA regulations because the application under UK law should be submitted from outside the UK if the applicant has no valid leave to remain.

Sorry to hear that. This is where I don't understand HO. If a person is genuinely married to UK citizen, they shouldn't do this, unfortunately HO has it's own twisted reasoning. That's why I specifically requested a letter from HO to either drop the removal or give us time until the appeal.
We got that letter which clearly states that they will not look to remove her until the appeal process.
I think it's all up to appeal and the judge.
What further submission your lawyer sent? Another application or more evidence?

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:49 pm

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi rydhwan,

When is your appeal?

Are you going to appeal within 2016 regulations or outside regulations challenging that the regulations are unlawful under EU law?

Hi,

I am going to appeal under 2016 regulations. We adhere to most points in 2016 other than the circumventing immigration which HO is trying to put on us. However I think I have evidence to prove that is not the case and just because I know the law and applied for Mrs visit visa here before doesn't negate that right.
The appeal is in 2nd week of December.

Regards

Have you thought of how you going to counter the following point you mentioned.

Their 2nd refusal explanation was that I mention that we were struggling with finances at the end of our stay and did not have any proper work and I wanted to come back to UK because most of my family & friends are here, according to them this further raises the question as to why I would choose to leave UK to go to Ireland in the first instance.
Lastly they said that Mrs have been granted permission until 2020 and we have left Ireland within 9 months of getting the residence card, again according to them if we genuinely wanted to stay in Ireland, it would have expected of me to find more employment there, rather than returning to UK.

We also had the similar reason saying you should have continued looking for self employment in the EEA host country.

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:49 pm

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:49 pm

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi rydhwan,

When is your appeal?

Are you going to appeal within 2016 regulations or outside regulations challenging that the regulations are unlawful under EU law?

Hi,

I am going to appeal under 2016 regulations. We adhere to most points in 2016 other than the circumventing immigration which HO is trying to put on us. However I think I have evidence to prove that is not the case and just because I know the law and applied for Mrs visit visa here before doesn't negate that right.
The appeal is in 2nd week of December.

Regards

Have you thought of how you going to counter the following point you mentioned.

Their 2nd refusal explanation was that I mention that we were struggling with finances at the end of our stay and did not have any proper work and I wanted to come back to UK because most of my family & friends are here, according to them this further raises the question as to why I would choose to leave UK to go to Ireland in the first instance.
Lastly they said that Mrs have been granted permission until 2020 and we have left Ireland within 9 months of getting the residence card, again according to them if we genuinely wanted to stay in Ireland, it would have expected of me to find more employment there, rather than returning to UK.

We also had the similar reason saying you should have continued looking for self employment in the EEA host country.

HO can't dictate whether a British/EU citizen should or shouldn't search for employment. As to why I left UK well I got a job there and that's why I moved not to mention that I was made redundant in UK at work and was quite upset.
The last point is irrelevant if we are lawfully married and can demonstrate that we have exercised EU Treaty rights in Ireland prior to seeking to return to the UK.

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:56 pm

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:49 pm

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:49 pm

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi rydhwan,

When is your appeal?

Are you going to appeal within 2016 regulations or outside regulations challenging that the regulations are unlawful under EU law?

Hi,

I am going to appeal under 2016 regulations. We adhere to most points in 2016 other than the circumventing immigration which HO is trying to put on us. However I think I have evidence to prove that is not the case and just because I know the law and applied for Mrs visit visa here before doesn't negate that right.
The appeal is in 2nd week of December.

Regards

Have you thought of how you going to counter the following point you mentioned.

Their 2nd refusal explanation was that I mention that we were struggling with finances at the end of our stay and did not have any proper work and I wanted to come back to UK because most of my family & friends are here, according to them this further raises the question as to why I would choose to leave UK to go to Ireland in the first instance.
Lastly they said that Mrs have been granted permission until 2020 and we have left Ireland within 9 months of getting the residence card, again according to them if we genuinely wanted to stay in Ireland, it would have expected of me to find more employment there, rather than returning to UK.

We also had the similar reason saying you should have continued looking for self employment in the EEA host country.

HO can't dictate whether a British/EU citizen should or shouldn't search for employment. As to why I left UK well I got a job there and that's why I moved not to mention that I was made redundant in UK at work and was quite upset.
The last point is irrelevant if we are lawfully married and can demonstrate that we have exercised EU Treaty rights in Ireland prior to seeking to return to the UK.

Hi rydhwan,

Keep us posted about your appeal. There are very few precedents about the surinder singh appeal. so sharing this info might be useful. I am just torn whether I should fight the case myself or use barrister for this purpose.
Thanks

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:56 pm

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:49 pm

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:49 pm

gillacious_505 wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi rydhwan,

When is your appeal?

Are you going to appeal within 2016 regulations or outside regulations challenging that the regulations are unlawful under EU law?

Hi,

I am going to appeal under 2016 regulations. We adhere to most points in 2016 other than the circumventing immigration which HO is trying to put on us. However I think I have evidence to prove that is not the case and just because I know the law and applied for Mrs visit visa here before doesn't negate that right.
The appeal is in 2nd week of December.

Regards

Have you thought of how you going to counter the following point you mentioned.

Their 2nd refusal explanation was that I mention that we were struggling with finances at the end of our stay and did not have any proper work and I wanted to come back to UK because most of my family & friends are here, according to them this further raises the question as to why I would choose to leave UK to go to Ireland in the first instance.
Lastly they said that Mrs have been granted permission until 2020 and we have left Ireland within 9 months of getting the residence card, again according to them if we genuinely wanted to stay in Ireland, it would have expected of me to find more employment there, rather than returning to UK.

We also had the similar reason saying you should have continued looking for self employment in the EEA host country.

HO can't dictate whether a British/EU citizen should or shouldn't search for employment. As to why I left UK well I got a job there and that's why I moved not to mention that I was made redundant in UK at work and was quite upset.
The last point is irrelevant if we are lawfully married and can demonstrate that we have exercised EU Treaty rights in Ireland prior to seeking to return to the UK.

Challenge the unlawfulness of the refusal based on case law and where practicle try to show the requirements of the regulations have been met.

Your case should be clear leaving the judge in no doubt that the regulations are unlawful.

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Tamandua wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:45 pm

I was detained in one of those routine visits at the reporting centre but the judge released me on the grounds that I have a valid marriage with a UK citizen. My lawyer sent a further submission to the HO straight away and my husband is also suing the HO.

I would say, stick with the appeal under EEA regulations because the application under UK law should be submitted from outside the UK if the applicant has no valid leave to remain.

Sorry to hear that. This is where I don't understand HO. If a person is genuinely married to UK citizen, they shouldn't do this, unfortunately HO has it's own twisted reasoning. That's why I specifically requested a letter from HO to either drop the removal or give us time until the appeal.
We got that letter which clearly states that they will not look to remove her until the appeal process.
I think it's all up to appeal and the judge.
What further submission your lawyer sent? Another application or more evidence?

My lawyer sent a further submission under section 120 of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act (all reasons to remain in the UK) with reference to art 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights. It's not another application; it's called further submission. I had a valid leave to remain (UK law) at the time of my first application as a spouse of a UK citizen but the HO refused it because my husband was also a resident in Spain. I submitted a new application in accordance with the rules when my husband cut ties with Spain permanently. The company he works for even transferred him from Gibraltar to their office in the UK.
The HO then claimed I refused to leave the UK by submitting a new application. As a result, they certified my human rights claim as 'clearly unfounded' because they don't think there is a violation of the ECHR as they believe my husband can move back to Spain under EEA Regulations.
It's ridiculous. Even the judge was of the opinion that my detention was unlawful and released me with citation to art 8 of the ECHR.

HO can't dictate whether a British/EU citizen should or shouldn't search for employment.

I totally agree with you. I don't think the UK government can tell their citizens where they should live with their spouses either.
HO's caseworkers might think they have some kind of power or even 'delusions of grandeur' just because they are acting on behalf of the Secretary of State. Whether she is aware of that or not, I don't know. Seriously, those people should know the Law or at least the basics.

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Tamandua wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:45 pm

I was detained in one of those routine visits at the reporting centre but the judge released me on the grounds that I have a valid marriage with a UK citizen. My lawyer sent a further submission to the HO straight away and my husband is also suing the HO.

I would say, stick with the appeal under EEA regulations because the application under UK law should be submitted from outside the UK if the applicant has no valid leave to remain.

Sorry to hear that. This is where I don't understand HO. If a person is genuinely married to UK citizen, they shouldn't do this, unfortunately HO has it's own twisted reasoning. That's why I specifically requested a letter from HO to either drop the removal or give us time until the appeal.
We got that letter which clearly states that they will not look to remove her until the appeal process.
I think it's all up to appeal and the judge.
What further submission your lawyer sent? Another application or more evidence?

Hi rydhwan,

how the appeal went?

Hi,

The appeal went OK. The Home office representative didn't come.

The judge was OK although she didn't ask much. She read my letter which refute all points mentioned in HO refusal letter. In total we were there for 15 minutes. She asked why the HO is insisting on integration because you have attached many evidence letters of your stay in Ireland.
I said I'm not sure but according to HO they were looking for a club/gym membership without taking into account our circumstances.

However I am a bit worried because she didn't ask nor let us explain much, she was doing everything hurriedly.

Let's wait and see. I will update as I get the decision.
Cheers.

rydhwan wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:04 am

Hi,

The appeal went OK. The Home office representative didn't come.

The judge was OK although she didn't ask much. She read my letter which refute all points mentioned in HO refusal letter. In total we were there for 15 minutes. She asked why the HO is insisting on integration because you have attached many evidence letters of your stay in Ireland.
I said I'm not sure but according to HO they were looking for a club/gym membership without taking into account our circumstances.

However I am a bit worried because she didn't ask nor let us explain much, she was doing everything hurriedly.

Let's wait and see. I will update as I get the decision.
Cheers.

Hi All,

Good news. We have received the decision today by post. The appeal is allowed. Basically the judge said that we met the requirements of Regulations (EEA) 2006.
There are a few mistakes here and there in her findings though not that important however it's the end judgement which counts.
On probability how often do HO appeal against a tribunal decision?
Many thanks everyone for their help.

Regards,
Rydhwan

Congratulation mate - I'm pleased for you.

HO have 14 days to appeal the decision if they choose to do so on the basis of an error of law.

Keep the forum updated on your progress.

All,

Another update.
We have now received the BRP and letter from HO.
However the issue date is from this month but not the actual application.
Is this correct? This means that not only money but we lost 1 year from Mrs residence here. That also means that from June 17 till now she was illegal in this country.
Will this affect her residence when the time comes to apply for ILR? Shall I challenge this?
Any other suggestions.

Many thanks
Rydhwan

Hi Rydhwan,

May I first of all congratulation on the success of your appeal against the Home Office.

Pls, I would like to know how your hearing went and what was the judge finding and determination.

Because, I have a similar appeal case like you, my application was refused by the Home Office exactly the same reason as yours. I and my spouse also resided in the Republic of Ireland for 11 Months before we returned back to UK to made application under surinder Singh route.

Pls, I need your insight and help so that I can be successful on my appeal as yours .
I shall be very grateful if you could help cos I am appealing on my own without solicitor or lawyer.

adeolual wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:22 pm

Hi Rydhwan,

May I first of all congratulation on the success of your appeal against the Home Office.

Pls, I would like to know how your hearing went and what was the judge finding and determination.

Because, I have a similar appeal case like you, my application was refused by the Home Office exactly the same reason as yours. I and my spouse also resided in the Republic of Ireland for 11 Months before we returned back to UK to made application under surinder Singh route.

Pls, I need your insight and help so that I can be successful on my appeal as yours .
I shall be very grateful if you could help cos I am appealing on my own without solicitor or lawyer.

Hi Adeolual,

Thank you.

In terms of your question, the judge agreed with my arguments and explanation.

I referred to case O and B v The Netherlands case C-456/12 which she also consider. You can search it on google.
Also she referred to Article 21(1) of the treaty on the functioning of the EU ('TFEU').

All in all she accepted all I had written

I suggest you go through the cases in detail. Gather all evidence of your stay and how you strengthen your family life there. Go through EU case law Directive 2004/38 in detail.
I wrote a 5 page document which contains notes and reasons so that if HO representative were there I could build arguments by referring to this.

The judge took that document from me and read it and the HO rep never arrived so that was helpful.
I mainly took all the points of refusal and refusal explanation and gave my counter arguments. Think of any other why, how, when, whom questions which HO rep or judge could ask on any of these counter arguments and write them down as well.

Please allow a week's preparation for you and your spouse to memorize these counter arguments and you will be fine.

I hope this helps. If you need further help feel free to post again on this board.

Regards,
Rydhwan

Hi everyone i have a refusal letter today stating the same reason as everyone has explained above and have only a week to do appeal against this decision.
now i want to know should i make a new application or just go for an appeal ?
i have read a story of rydhwan how his appeal went and he succeeded really happy to hear positive news.
but i want to know if i go for an appeal how long this process will take ? once i submitted an appeal next week when i likely to hear for a appeal date ?
so fed up with HO i have married since 2013 and we have been into lot of financial and social troubles.

mkhan2525 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 pm

HO are now refusing all applications if there is previous immigration history or where the applicant could have applied under UK immigration rules regardless of how long they resided in anoher member state.

My wife received a refusal 3 months ago on the basis of circumvention because of a refusal under a previous application. They also refused on centre of life and for not being a qualified person even though I presented them the evidence to show the requirements were met. They want us to apply under the 5 year UK immigration route.

I have appealed the decision and am looking forward to my day in court.

Hi mkhan2525 ,
if you remember we have had convo in the past on the same issue when i was about to travel uk. everything was getting better financially and socially i have received a refusal letter from HO stating the same reason as everyone else and yours,
Reasons are you have not demonstrated that a the centre of life transferred to ireland plus accommodation was temporary we spend nearly 1 and half year, and the last one circumvent the uk domestic law.....
they have given me only a week to appeal the decision just wondering if i should go for a new application or go for an appeal ?
reading about rydwan story seems better to go for appeal
1 question about appeal how long does it take to hear back from the tribunal about hearing and how long this process will take?
also if you have appeal again the decision could you please update if anything ?

nawab185 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:17 pm

mkhan2525 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 pm

HO are now refusing all applications if there is previous immigration history or where the applicant could have applied under UK immigration rules regardless of how long they resided in anoher member state.

My wife received a refusal 3 months ago on the basis of circumvention because of a refusal under a previous application. They also refused on centre of life and for not being a qualified person even though I presented them the evidence to show the requirements were met. They want us to apply under the 5 year UK immigration route.

I have appealed the decision and am looking forward to my day in court.

Hi mkhan2525 ,
if you remember we have had convo in the past on the same issue when i was about to travel uk. everything was getting better financially and socially i have received a refusal letter from HO stating the same reason as everyone else and yours,
Reasons are you have not demonstrated that a the centre of life transferred to ireland plus accommodation was temporary we spend nearly 1 and half year, and the last one circumvent the uk domestic law.....
they have given me only a week to appeal the decision just wondering if i should go for a new application or go for an appeal ?
reading about rydwan story seems better to go for appeal
1 question about appeal how long does it take to hear back from the tribunal about hearing and how long this process will take?
also if you have appeal again the decision could you please update if anything ?

Sorry to hear about your refusal.

Due to the nature of the refusal it is better to pursue an appeal because another application will result in the same refusal.

I beleive the wait times for an appeal are around 8 months to 1 year depending on where you live.

nawab185 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:17 pm

mkhan2525 wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 pm

HO are now refusing all applications if there is previous immigration history or where the applicant could have applied under UK immigration rules regardless of how long they resided in anoher member state.

My wife received a refusal 3 months ago on the basis of circumvention because of a refusal under a previous application. They also refused on centre of life and for not being a qualified person even though I presented them the evidence to show the requirements were met. They want us to apply under the 5 year UK immigration route.

I have appealed the decision and am looking forward to my day in court.

Hi mkhan2525 ,
if you remember we have had convo in the past on the same issue when i was about to travel uk. everything was getting better financially and socially i have received a refusal letter from HO stating the same reason as everyone else and yours,
Reasons are you have not demonstrated that a the centre of life transferred to ireland plus accommodation was temporary we spend nearly 1 and half year, and the last one circumvent the uk domestic law.....
they have given me only a week to appeal the decision just wondering if i should go for a new application or go for an appeal ?
reading about rydwan story seems better to go for appeal
1 question about appeal how long does it take to hear back from the tribunal about hearing and how long this process will take?
also if you have appeal again the decision could you please update if anything ?

Hi Nawab185,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. You need to understand that the appeal process is non-suspensive so in theory HO can remove your spouse from UK similar to situation we had.
A new application where you give additional points and proof that you spent 1.5 years there, strengthen your family life etc might be a speedy choice but there is no guarantee that it will not result in another refusal.
Appeal process is lengthy but you can expedite the request by sending another letter to tribunal with the appeal submission or later like I did.
In our case the appeal is heard in 5 months but that only happened when I submitted another letter to tribunal asking them to speed up due to RED removal notice.
We have 2 kids and they're both under 3 even to this date but that didn't stop HO to serve RED removal notice to us.
It really helps if you have children as that would make it difficult for them to remove your spouse although these things happen in past.
If there is still time ask the HO case worker in writing for a review with new information submitted before doing an appeal. Explained things if you can and hopefully it might sort out this way although don't delay the appeal just because of this, you can always withdraw the appeal if the decision is in your favour.
Please read this complete thread, I think I have written about my case very clearly so you can take much guidance.
If you need my further help please let me know.

Regards,
Rydhwan

Wanderer wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:42 pm

SS is used to circumvent UK immigration rules, there's no doubt about that.

Yes, it does happen. Part of the reason is of course the harsh and expensive UK law for spousal visas, which I am pretty sure violates human rights in a number of cases.

That being said, there is a recognition that SS can be "abused". If the only reason for moving abroad is to use SS, that is clearly not in line with the reasoning behind SS. However, there are also legitimate reasons, or we would not have SS in the first place. I think the Home Office has become paranoid, and is basically closing the SS route. That cannot be legal, neither under EU nor UK law.