FLR FP application refusd with out of country appeal

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:10 pm

Hi,
I just want to share my sad news that my flr fp application and my wife flr fp application is refused on last week with out of country right of appeal. I am in UK 11.5 years now and my wife 8 years we have 3 kids age elder daughter 6 years and 11 months and other kids age is 5 and 3 years. please help me do I need to do JR or fresh applications for both of us. I am very upset please help me.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:29 pm

On what basis did you apply FLR(FP)???

What was the exact reason stated in the letter, taking out personal details?

All your previous posts refer to applying for ILR Long Residence. You also appear to have had tax issues on your Tier 1 General.

Did you apply for ILR LR??

indefinite-leave-to-remain/pbs-dependen ... l#p1385932

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:36 pm

Hi CROO1,
yes you are right I applied first SET LR IN OCT 2016 and for my wife FLR M, then I vary both applications due to tax issue in Nov 2017 on private life 10 year route and they refused our applications.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:37 pm

could you please tell me what options I have and which is good for me. thanks

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:40 pm

they refused our applications that my elder daughter is not 7 years at the time of application and I am not been in UK 20 years so we can go back to our country and settle our life as a family unit.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:47 pm

But had resided lawfully for 10 years, therefore the 20years rule is not applicable.

At the very least you would have been entitled for FLR(LR). Was that not considered?

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:52 pm

Hi Obie,
they not consider any thing. my solicitor advised me to do JR might be they will reconsider because my daughter is near 7 years. please help me what should I do.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:45 pm

Your solicitor is best place to advise. He has seen your papers and know more about your case than I do.

Route to ILR · Post by **Route to ILR** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:59 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:36 pm
Hi CROO1,
yes you are right I applied first SET LR IN OCT 2016 and for my wife FLR M, then I vary both applications due to tax issue in Nov 2017 on private life 10 year route and they refused our applications.

Hi,

Just a bit curious whose idea or suggestion was that to vary both application to flr fp private life (specially your's one). U put axe on your own foot. Your kids were not 7 years old than why u took that step?

When your visa is refused? what feedback u got from the person who told u to vary your application.

U ruined your own future by varying your application. Silly mistakes like that cost a lot.

I believe if u wouldn't vary your application u might get ILR or worst case scenario if they refuse your application they would give u in country appeal right. ILR LR applications most probably gives you in country appeal right.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm

Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Obie wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:45 pm
Your solicitor is best place to advise. He has seen your papers and know more about your case than I do.

Hi Obie,
if you are in my situation what you will do just want your opinion.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.

You cannot vary an application if you don't have an application pending. So if your ILR was already refused, you have not varied but submitted a new out of time application.

Route to ILR · Post by **Route to ILR** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.

Interesting, so u are quite lucky than, that u didn't get deception this time but believe me its still in there system and they save there most dangerous weapon (deception) for the next time.

Your only option is JR now, to spend time until your child turn 7 years. When that happens than withdraw the JR and put a fresh flr fp application on 7 years child basis. No point to drag that JR u won't get anything as child is not 7 years on the date of application.

Route to ILR · Post by **Route to ILR** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:42 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.
You cannot vary an application if you don't have an application pending. So if your ILR was already refused, you have not varied but submitted a new out of time application.

ILR was refused but not notified or served to the applicant. So carry no basis. OP found out after SAR request.

Did OP got SET LR and FLRM fees refund?
Did OP pay full flr fp fees?

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:43 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.
Interesting, so u are quite lucky than, that u didn't get deception this time but believe me its still in there system and they save there most dangerous weapon (deception) for the next time.

Your only option is JR now, to spend time until your child turn 7 years. When that happens than withdraw the JR and put a fresh flr fp application on 7 years child basis. No point to drag that JR u won't get anything as child is not 7 years on the date of application.

JR does not extend Section 3C or give any rights to remain. JR is a process completely outside of the immigration process. JR is also very expensive. JR and a visa application can run simultaneously.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:47 pm

Unfortunately the totally unfounded certificate, which this individual appears to have, can only be challenged in JR, and if it is quashed, the default position will come and section 3C will engaged.

I accept your point that JR does not confer section 3C.

Route to ILR · Post by **Route to ILR** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:52 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:43 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.
Interesting, so u are quite lucky than, that u didn't get deception this time but believe me its still in there system and they save there most dangerous weapon (deception) for the next time.

Your only option is JR now, to spend time until your child turn 7 years. When that happens than withdraw the JR and put a fresh flr fp application on 7 years child basis. No point to drag that JR u won't get anything as child is not 7 years on the date of application.
JR does not extend Section 3C or give any rights to remain. JR is a process completely outside of the immigration process. JR is also very expensive. JR and a visa application can run simultaneously.

Agree

But no point to put an application now when child is not 7 years. Only option is to file JR to kill time until child turn 7. Then new application gives some chance to fight in the court. Op is in a very difficult situation.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:09 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:52 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:43 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.
Interesting, so u are quite lucky than, that u didn't get deception this time but believe me its still in there system and they save there most dangerous weapon (deception) for the next time.

Your only option is JR now, to spend time until your child turn 7 years. When that happens than withdraw the JR and put a fresh flr fp application on 7 years child basis. No point to drag that JR u won't get anything as child is not 7 years on the date of application.
JR does not extend Section 3C or give any rights to remain. JR is a process completely outside of the immigration process. JR is also very expensive. JR and a visa application can run simultaneously.
Agree

But no point to put an application now when child is not 7 years. Only option is to file JR to kill time until child turn 7. Then new application gives some chance to fight in the court. Op is in a very difficult situation.

Hi All,
Thanks for your opinion my solicitor said exactly the same like Obie and route to ILR. He said no point to put new application we will apply JR as he believe my case is strong and next month my daughter will be 7 years. He will try to take in country appeal or reconsider the case. I think I will accept my solicitor advise bcz he said I spend lawfully 11.5 years and he will argue with judge about my daughter as well. He said judge can accept now my daughter is 7 years during hearing.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:12 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:42 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.
You cannot vary an application if you don't have an application pending. So if your ILR was already refused, you have not varied but submitted a new out of time application.
ILR was refused but not notified or served to the applicant. So carry no basis. OP found out after SAR request.

Did OP got SET LR and FLRM fees refund?
Did OP pay full flr fp fees?

no I not paid any new fee and they also refund the fee difference before refusal and most interesting point they not send me biometric letter for variation applications.

Obie · Post by **Obie** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:49 pm

For judge to find against home office against their decision relating to children, they will need to have been 7 years old at the date of Application, so he is clearly wrong on that, and it was not my advise that if your child turn 7 then court will accept.

Route to ILR · Post by **Route to ILR** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:13 pm

Obie wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:49 pm
For judge to find against home office against their decision relating to children, they will need to have been 7 years old at the date of Application, so he is clearly wrong on that, and it was not my advise that if your child turn 7 then court will accept.

+1

I also never said that your case is strong to fight in court.

if u want to waste another year or so on jr than its your choice. Use JR route just to buy time until your child turn 7. Than put a new application and start from there.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:50 am

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:13 pm

Obie wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:49 pm
For judge to find against home office against their decision relating to children, they will need to have been 7 years old at the date of Application, so he is clearly wrong on that, and it was not my advise that if your child turn 7 then court will accept.
+1

I also never said that your case is strong to fight in court.

if u want to waste another year or so on jr than its your choice. Use JR route just to buy time until your child turn 7. Than put a new application and start from there.

Hi Guys,
with JR, if I apply now on 10 years basis and when my child 7 years I can vary again what you think.

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:22 am

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:52 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:43 pm

Route to ILR wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Moon84 wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:20 pm
Hi Route to ILR,
I requested SAR and in that I found they already made decision on my SET LR with deception and out of country appeal. so I thought to vary application to save from deception but in flr fp application they just take out deception and send me they same decision.
Interesting, so u are quite lucky than, that u didn't get deception this time but believe me its still in there system and they save there most dangerous weapon (deception) for the next time.

Your only option is JR now, to spend time until your child turn 7 years. When that happens than withdraw the JR and put a fresh flr fp application on 7 years child basis. No point to drag that JR u won't get anything as child is not 7 years on the date of application.
JR does not extend Section 3C or give any rights to remain. JR is a process completely outside of the immigration process. JR is also very expensive. JR and a visa application can run simultaneously.
Agree

But no point to put an application now when child is not 7 years. Only option is to file JR to kill time until child turn 7. Then new application gives some chance to fight in the court. Op is in a very difficult situation.

Hi All,
could you please give me some advise as my previous post, I applied PAP which was refused last week my elder child will be 7 years next month what I need to do go with JR or fresh application next month. if I apply JR what chances for win the JR. please any body advise me.
I been living in the UK legally over 10 years my wife with me nearly 8 years I have 3 kids and I have house on mortgage please help me I am very confused.

teddy0409 · Post by **teddy0409** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:40 am

he believe my case is strong and next month my daughter will be 7 years. He will try to take in country appeal or reconsider the case. I think I will accept my solicitor advise bcz he said I spend lawfully 11.5 years and he will argue with judge about my daughter as well. He said judge can accept now my daughter is 7 years during hearing.

The power with in JR is very very limited and slim to a Judge hearing the case,
They are obliged to consider what was infront of the SSHD by the time of the application and not otherway around,
Daughter's age is not 7 at the time of the application and nothing much a Judge could do, It will be different case if it is a Appeal hearing, Even if the Judge to be in your side and sympathatic about the current age of your daughter, HO will successfuly get rid of the Judgement in COA simply on the basis of "Information provided at the time of Application",
Please consult and have second opinion fron another solicitor about this point,
JR will buy you aometime and Winnning a JR will enable you other application options,
Regards

Moon84 · Post by **Moon84** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:31 pm

teddy0409 wrote: ↑
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:40 am

he believe my case is strong and next month my daughter will be 7 years. He will try to take in country appeal or reconsider the case. I think I will accept my solicitor advise bcz he said I spend lawfully 11.5 years and he will argue with judge about my daughter as well. He said judge can accept now my daughter is 7 years during hearing.

The power with in JR is very very limited and slim to a Judge hearing the case,
They are obliged to consider what was infront of the SSHD by the time of the application and not otherway around,
Daughter's age is not 7 at the time of the application and nothing much a Judge could do, It will be different case if it is a Appeal hearing, Even if the Judge to be in your side and sympathatic about the current age of your daughter, HO will successfuly get rid of the Judgement in COA simply on the basis of "Information provided at the time of Application",
Please consult and have second opinion fron another solicitor about this point,
JR will buy you aometime and Winnning a JR will enable you other application options,
Regards

HI Teddy0409
thank you for your reply just want to tell you we not applied on 7 years basis. we applied on 10 year private life and I spoke with my solicitor he said all we try to convince judge in JR to get in country right of appeal. what your opinion please.

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