UK residence card refused!

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:10 pm

rydhwan wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:31 pm

nawab185 wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:17 pm

mkhan2525 wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 pm
HO are now refusing all applications if there is previous immigration history or where the applicant could have applied under UK immigration rules regardless of how long they resided in anoher member state.

My wife received a refusal 3 months ago on the basis of circumvention because of a refusal under a previous application. They also refused on centre of life and for not being a qualified person even though I presented them the evidence to show the requirements were met. They want us to apply under the 5 year UK immigration route.

I have appealed the decision and am looking forward to my day in court.
Hi mkhan2525 ,
if you remember we have had convo in the past on the same issue when i was about to travel uk. everything was getting better financially and socially i have received a refusal letter from HO stating the same reason as everyone else and yours,
Reasons are you have not demonstrated that a the centre of life transferred to ireland plus accommodation was temporary we spend nearly 1 and half year, and the last one circumvent the uk domestic law.....
they have given me only a week to appeal the decision just wondering if i should go for a new application or go for an appeal ?
reading about rydwan story seems better to go for appeal
1 question about appeal how long does it take to hear back from the tribunal about hearing and how long this process will take?
also if you have appeal again the decision could you please update if anything ?
Hi Nawab185,

I am sorry to hear about your situation. You need to understand that the appeal process is non-suspensive so in theory HO can remove your spouse from UK similar to situation we had.
A new application where you give additional points and proof that you spent 1.5 years there, strengthen your family life etc might be a speedy choice but there is no guarantee that it will not result in another refusal.
Appeal process is lengthy but you can expedite the request by sending another letter to tribunal with the appeal submission or later like I did.
In our case the appeal is heard in 5 months but that only happened when I submitted another letter to tribunal asking them to speed up due to RED removal notice.
We have 2 kids and they're both under 3 even to this date but that didn't stop HO to serve RED removal notice to us.
It really helps if you have children as that would make it difficult for them to remove your spouse although these things happen in past.
If there is still time ask the HO case worker in writing for a review with new information submitted before doing an appeal. Explained things if you can and hopefully it might sort out this way although don't delay the appeal just because of this, you can always withdraw the appeal if the decision is in your favour.
Please read this complete thread, I think I have written about my case very clearly so you can take much guidance.
If you need my further help please let me know.

Regards,
Rydhwan

Hi Rydhwan,

thanks for the information

i have had a past history whit the home office but this shouldn't effect my current EU application as it states in the law.
also i have decided to go for an appeal which i think is the better choice at the moment.
when you say i can give additional proofs for spending 1.5 years what could be additional proof i have already give my house tenancy agreement, houses bills my wife and mine payslips company contract that we both was working there, library cards bank statement thats all i have given i believe thats all the proofs i have at the moment... but i will really appreciate if you can guide me when you say additional point of proof what can i give them more than this?
also what EU law and stuff did you mention in your another letter that you sent to the tribunal with the appeal submission?
will really appreciate your help and advice thanks

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:01 pm

Does anyone in this situation have children?

My wife lost her appeal because our residence wasnt genuine because i didnt play sports, returned to the same house i lived before and because the job i did wasnt to my skill level.

Wonder if it will affect us when we make a human rights application.

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:20 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:01 pm
Does anyone in this situation have children?

My wife lost her appeal because our residence wasnt genuine because i didnt play sports, returned to the same house i lived before and because the job i did wasnt to my skill level.

Wonder if it will affect us when we make a human rights application.

we don't have children as well but used to play sports in ireland but no proof as i used to play sports with locals.. also i have moved in a same house in london where we used to live before moving ireland as its my wife's grandparents house. i am going for an appeal as well but looking at your case it seems really difficult.
how long did you spend in ireland tho ? and what other reason they refused for ? and where the sports come in ? what type of job you did in ireland ? i was doing a job in security company tho

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:43 pm

We have 1 child soon to be 2 inshallah.

Judge followed the HO guidance, in fact going a step further with nonsense reasons.

You didnt play sports, no proof of friends, living in same house and job not to my skill level.

Nothing to do with EU law.

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:59 pm

Spent 10 months there.

I think you should be okay with 1.5 years.

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:59 pm

what are you going to do next? going for an upper tribunal or applying under uk law ?

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:00 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:59 pm
Spent 10 months there.

I think you should be okay with 1.5 years.

also forgot to mention i have received irish 5 years RC when i was in inland

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:14 pm

Yes we received 5 year card too.

Permission from first tier has been refused now applied directly to upper tribunal. Dont have much hope other than fact wife is giving birth to second child next week.

I reckon they will use same reasons to refuse human rights.

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:35 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:14 pm
Yes we received 5 year card too.

Permission from first tier has been refused now applied directly to upper tribunal. Dont have much hope other than fact wife is giving birth to second child next week.

I reckon they will use same reasons to refuse human rights.

have u referred to case O and B v The Netherlands case C-456/12 ?

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:39 pm

Yes, article 7, Akrich, everything under the sun.

Judge refused permission.

mkhan2525 · Post by **mkhan2525** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:42 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:01 pm
Does anyone in this situation have children?

My wife lost her appeal because our residence wasnt genuine because i didnt play sports, returned to the same house i lived before and because the job i did wasnt to my skill level.

Wonder if it will affect us when we make a human rights application.

We have a child that was born a month after our move to the UK and HO have not issued a removal notice for my wife.

We currently have an on-going appeal and have asked HO to send us a certificate of application whilst we wait for the outcome of the Appeal. When requested, they have been issued to us without any issues.

It appears from your case that your solicitor did not challenge the unlawfulness of the Centre of life test under EU law before the FTT hence the judge was left asking questions about why you did not play sports.

I don't think this is the Judge's fault because the FTT judges don't always know the law or the issues at hand in a particular case and rely on the HPO and the Appellant to make life eaier for them with their written and oral submissions.

You should have a good chance of succeeding in the UTT.

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:15 pm

Permission was been refused by FTT to appeal to UTT.

Now awaiting UTT response for permission.

Just wondering whether this refusal will affect us when we make a human rights application?

rydhwan · Post by **rydhwan** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:11 pm

Hi nawab185,

I think you have submitted everything which I put. However in my case the difference was my first daughter was born in Ireland.
Also I arranged letters from neighbors in Ireland and 2 families who moved to UK from Ireland.
I also showed proof of my last employment in UK where I earned well above £18600.

When I went from UK I was in Bucks and when I came back I went to live in Tyne and wear where I used to live before living in Bucks. I didn't own a house in UK.

I think that's why many things go in our favour.
Like I said in this thread before that you have to give strong reasoning in front of the judge. Reasoning like why you went in the first place, why you stayed over there, what reasoning you have to come back etc?
Also stick to the EU law and its requirement and try to make your case of how you met regulations and why it is absurd that HO is denying you rights.

Regards,
Rydhwan

rydhwan · Post by **rydhwan** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:24 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:15 pm
Permission was been refused by FTT to appeal to UTT.

Now awaiting UTT response for permission.

Just wondering whether this refusal will affect us when we make a human rights application?

Hi alphagear,

Sorry to hear about your situation. It has nothing to do with playing sports or not.
Me and my Mrs never played any sport and arguing in front of the judge I said that certain cultures are different and there is no such requirements for us to play sports as we have other things to do. However you have to give some break down of your activities.
Do you not have any neighbors, friends who you get along with while you were there?
I am sad that the judge refused your appeal however if you have arranged a solicitor/barrister, did you check that he/she knows your case and what they are suppose to argue?
When I was meeting solicitors/barristers I often find that some of them didn't even know the basic EU law, let alone the details legislation and arguments they need to give and that is the reason why I went to appeal ourselves.
Human rights appeal is a bit different so can't comment on this but are you going for a judicial review? what is your barrister/solicitor saying?
If you mention Akrich and Netherlands case than the only thing you need to proof is that your residence over there was genuine so I am bit puzzled what your barrister argued?

Regards,
Rydhwan

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:45 pm

Is a Judicial review worth it?

They said our residence wasn't genuine because of the following reasons I gave above.

Obviously contrary to Case O and B which states genuine residence must be determined in line with Article 7 of the Directive.

Yes has friends and the judge asked which I said yes yet she determined I never showed any proof of it.

rydhwan · Post by **rydhwan** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:55 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:45 pm
Is a Judicial review worth it?

They said our residence wasn't genuine because of the following reasons I gave above.

Obviously contrary to Case O and B which states genuine residence must be determined in line with Article 7 of the Directive.

Yes has friends and the judge asked which I said yes yet she determined I never showed any proof of it.

It is always worth going for it, the decision might get over turned if you justify things.
Maybe you should asked your friends to give you letters of how you lived there but please don't make it a routine letter instead it should be a personal sort. I had 5-6 letters where everyone of our friends describe there own experiences they have with us unlike a simple character reference letter.
I have done a post here which contains some of my preparation for the case please check that.

Regards,
Rydhwan

rydhwan · Post by **rydhwan** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:41 pm

Sorry just check your refusal reasons.
Whether your job was not on the same skill level doesn't make that much of a difference as long as you justify that you're doing a job and the salary is sufficient for your monthly outgoings over there.

I am a bit curious on what you reply to them about why you went to Ireland? What was your reasoning? If you come back to live in the same house, was this your house or one of your relative's house? what reason you gave of coming back to UK?
The judge saying you're not doing a job on the same skill is not justifiable... there is no such thing in the guidance in the EU law and the interpretation of it in UK law.
Please go through the UK guidance for SS route which you will find on gov.uk

Regards,
Rydhwan

alphagear · Post by **alphagear** » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:17 pm

According to judge, i had a semi skilled job in uk and the job in Ireland wasnt commensurate to my skills.

Shocking firstly because EU law basically only says work should be genuine and effective.

What the judge said had no relevance to Eu law and secondly how does the judge know my skill level?

I didnt provide a CV.

I live in a house owned by 4 family members including me. The house is cashed and it wasnt possible to sell it.

This again was uses by judge to say my principal residence wasnt ireland.

rydhwan · Post by **rydhwan** » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:26 pm

alphagear wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:17 pm
According to judge, i had a semi skilled job in uk and the job in Ireland wasnt commensurate to my skills.

Shocking firstly because EU law basically only says work should be genuine and effective.

What the judge said had no relevance to Eu law and secondly how does the judge know my skill level?

I didnt provide a CV.

I live in a house owned by 4 family members including me. The house is cashed and it wasnt possible to sell it.

This again was uses by judge to say my principal residence wasnt ireland.

That's what I am saying however because you have a house here and you couldn't sell it is a bigger problem because SS interpretation of Home office directly points to this.
You could argue about it because it was cashed and you were 4th partner, you can't sell it without the consent of other partners.
The problem with a judicial review is that they're only going to take a look at the decision made by the judge eg. right or wrong? Since you haven't provided enough information regarding the house nor your routine in Ireland, I don't think judicial review is appropriate in this circumstance.
I would recommend doing this and provide these details as new evidence to your appeal to UTT.
I am a bit puzzled as to why your solicitor not ask you to do that.

I hope your case will sort out and you don't have to go through the Human rights process.
If you have children look into parents of British child/children visa. That is what majority of solicitors/barrister recommended me.

Regards,
Rydhwan

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:46 pm

rydhwan wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:11 pm
Hi nawab185,

I think you have submitted everything which I put. However in my case the difference was my first daughter was born in Ireland.
Also I arranged letters from neighbors in Ireland and 2 families who moved to UK from Ireland.
I also showed proof of my last employment in UK where I earned well above £18600.

When I went from UK I was in Bucks and when I came back I went to live in Tyne and wear where I used to live before living in Bucks. I didn't own a house in UK.

I think that's why many things go in our favour.
Like I said in this thread before that you have to give strong reasoning in front of the judge. Reasoning like why you went in the first place, why you stayed over there, what reasoning you have to come back etc?
Also stick to the EU law and its requirement and try to make your case of how you met regulations and why it is absurd that HO is denying you rights.

Regards,
Rydhwan

thanks a lot you have explained in details really appreciate im gonna get letters from neighbours and friends from ireland hopefully will support me towards my FTT.

nawab185 · Post by **nawab185** » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:03 pm

Hi everyone,

i received a refusal on SS in march and appealed the refusal decision. i heard and everyone on this forum getting hearing FTT between 8 to 12 months. but my appeal is next month mean in may with in one month really confused....

im preparing my appeal against SS refusal which is illegally refunded on bases on my previous record and circumventing ... i will really appreciate everyone help who has already experienced SS case or going through it.

mkhan2525 · Post by **mkhan2525** » Fri May 11, 2018 2:15 pm

mkhan2525 wrote: ↑
Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:57 pm
HO are now refusing all applications if there is previous immigration history or where the applicant could have applied under UK immigration rules regardless of how long they resided in anoher member state.

My wife received a refusal 3 months ago on the basis of circumvention because of a refusal under a previous application. They also refused on centre of life and for not being a qualified person even though I presented them the evidence to show the requirements were met. They want us to apply under the 5 year UK immigration route.

I have appealed the decision and am looking forward to my day in court.

We received good news from FTT today, allowing our appeal against the Secretary of State's refusal to issue my wife with a residence card.

The Judge found Regulation 9 of the 2016 regulations were met.

Felix8289 · Post by **Felix8289** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:10 pm

nawab185 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:03 pm
Hi everyone,

i received a refusal on SS in march and appealed the refusal decision. i heard and everyone on this forum getting hearing FTT between 8 to 12 months. but my appeal is next month mean in may with in one month really confused....

im preparing my appeal against SS refusal which is illegally refunded on bases on my previous record and circumventing ... i will really appreciate everyone help who has already experienced SS case or going through it.

Hi Nawab,
I am in similar situation, my appeal was refused, HO said i am trying to circumvet immigration rules, based on that i was refused, i am thinking of appealing this decision, how did u go about getting early appeal, barrister told me it could take up to 8-1year before i can get a date for FTTR hearing, any info would really help, thanks

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