Calming benefits on Derivative right residence card

bankyamy · Post by **bankyamy** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:01 am

I was issued with a derivative residence card in September 2014, there was nothing like "No recourse to public funds" on it. So I applied for benefits -child tax and child benefit and was paid for the period of 2015 and 2016 and then got a letter saying I shouldn't get any benefit because even though I live in the UK, am been trrated as not been in the UK.

I have been asked to pay back this money amounting to over £12, 000 for child tax and child benefit. Am just very confused as I also know some of my friends on the same route as me that are getting child tax and working tax.

If home office didn't put any remark in the residence card or letter, how would I have known am not supposed to claim any benefit? Do I really have to pay this? Do I have a chance of disputing this? And is there any way at all that I can claim benefit? Am a struggling single mum with with 3 children one is British.

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:53 am

bankyamy wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:01 am
So I applied for benefits -child tax and child benefit and was paid for the period of 2015 and 2016 and then got a letter saying I shouldn't get any benefit because even though I live in the UK

Not everybody who lives in the UK is entitled to benefits.

The Supreme Court ruled in HC vs Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and others (2017) that Zambrano carers are not entitled to non-contributory benefits. That is likely why you were sent that letter in 2017 advising you that you were not eligible for benefits.

A summary on a law chambers website;

The Zambrano right is limited to protecting children who are EU citizens from being forced to leave the territory of the EU in order to accompany their parents. It did not extend to the right to claim social assistance. The right to reside is not a right to any particular quality of life or to any particular standard of living.

As I understand it, you should still be able to claim contributory benefits (those which are based on your NICs), such as contribution-based jobseekers allowance. But you will not be able to claim non-contributory benefits such as child benefit, etc.

bankyamy · Post by **bankyamy** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:03 am

secret.simon wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:53 am

bankyamy wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:01 am
So I applied for benefits -child tax and child benefit and was paid for the period of 2015 and 2016 and then got a letter saying I shouldn't get any benefit because even though I live in the UK
Not everybody who lives in the UK is entitled to benefits.

The Supreme Court ruled in HC vs Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and others (2017) that Zambrano carers are not entitled to non-contributory benefits. That is likely why you were sent that letter in 2017 advising you that you were not eligible for benefits.

A summary on a law chambers website;
The Zambrano right is limited to protecting children who are EU citizens from being forced to leave the territory of the EU in order to accompany their parents. It did not extend to the right to claim social assistance. The right to reside is not a right to any particular quality or life or to any particular standard of living.
As I understand it, you should still be able to claim contributory benefits (those which are based on your NICs), such as contribution-based jobseekers allowance. But you will not be able to claim non-contributory benefits such as child benefit, etc.

Thank you Simon, is there a way around this at all? Can they change the conditions? I wasn't to know at the time that am.not supposed to claim benefits. Would they consider this in the overpayment?

Ugofify · Post by **Ugofify** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:59 am

My advice based on experience you are not allowed to claim any benefits except working tax credit and childcare help not child tax credit except you change to leave to remain on parent route but you also have to prove you are destitute to get recourse to public funds.

bankyamy · Post by **bankyamy** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:42 pm

Ugofify wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:59 am
My advice based on experience you are not allowed to claim any benefits except working tax credit and childcare help not child tax credit except you change to leave to remain on parent route but you also have to prove you are destitute to get recourse to public funds.

Thank you

BAsolutions · Post by **BAsolutions** » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:56 pm

Hi there,

If you are a 3rd country national with a derivative right it should tell you on the back of your card that you have NRPF, this includes working tax credit and childcare.

I hope that help.

Thegrassisgreener · Post by **Thegrassisgreener** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:42 am

Hi there, here is a new ruling ( relatively new - 16th July 2018) which I believe applies to your situation.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links - if I'm in error, my apologies.

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appea ... ut-237-aac

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-ri ... -agreement

Good luck.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:06 am

Thegrassisgreener wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:42 am
Hi there, here is a new ruling ( relatively new - 16th July 2018) which I believe applies to your situation.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links - if I'm in error, my apologies.

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appea ... ut-237-aac

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-ri ... -agreement

Good luck.

The links you have provided relate to the agreement with Morocco. The poster has not made any indication that they are from Morocco.

Thegrassisgreener · Post by **Thegrassisgreener** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:22 am

Not quite so, though it was brought to the attention of the courts partly on that basis. However the implications relate to Zambrano ( a type of derivative residence) and others alike. Please read the conclusion.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/TCC/2018/237.pdf

Thegrassisgreener · Post by **Thegrassisgreener** » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:23 am

Not quite so, though it was brought to the attention of the courts partly on that basis. However the implications relate to Zambrano ( a type of derivative residence) and others alike. Please read the conclusion.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/TCC/2018/237.pdf

bankyamy · Post by **bankyamy** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:00 pm

Thegrassisgreener wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:42 am
Hi there, here is a new ruling ( relatively new - 16th July 2018) which I believe applies to your situation.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links - if I'm in error, my apologies.

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appea ... ut-237-aac

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/welfare-ri ... -agreement

Good luck.

Thank you. Am not from Morrocco so don't think this applies to me.

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:53 pm

Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs v HEH and Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (TC and CHB): [2018] UKUT 237 (AAC) wrote:5. It may be helpful to some readers of this decision if I note here that such agreements also exist between the EU and a number of States in the Middle East and North Africa (I am aware of them in respect of Algeria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Tunisia but this list should not be assumed to be comprehensive). In social security cases involving nationals of the States concerned, consideration of them may well be required.

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Calming benefits on Derivative right residence card

Calming benefits on Derivative right residence card

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