MN1, Section 3(1)/3(2) from abroad or naturalise children after 3 years?

Hi, I am trying to make 100% sure my application is valid before I spend several thousand £££s on applications to register my children.

I was born to unmarried parents before before 2006 but after 1983 (father is from Scotland, as are his parents, his parents' parents, and so on). I have just sent off my form UKF and expect it to be fine.

I have three children, born between 2014 and 2018. I also lived in the U.K. for 3 consecutive years as a child (6 years total). I'm confused about whether registration means that is when you acquire citizenship, or if that is just an acknowledgement of it. If the former, then I was not a citizen at the time of their birth and I cannot pass down citizenship to them under section 3(2) of the MN1 application.

My second question is whether or not it is more advantageous to register them as a citizen by descent (under 3(2)) or else as a citizen other than by descent under section 3(5), as we are planning to move to the U.K. in the next few years. On one hand I would like to not have to apply for their visas or have a higher income requirement to support them, and I also know that we will be living there for longer than 3 years, so theoretically they can pass their citizenship under the same provisions I was able to. But if there are advantages I'm not aware of, I'll just wait until we've been there for 3 years and then apply to register them under 3(5).

Thanks in advance for any assistance or guidance in the right direction.

Registration is a grant of citizenship and is prospective. You will become a British citizen from the date on the registration certificate.

Any children born to you before the date of the registration certificate will not have an entitlement to register under either Section 3(2) or 3(5), both of which require one parent to be a British citizen by descent at the time of the birth of the child involved.

The children will have to be registered under Section 3(1), but that will be a registration at discretion. However your children will likely be registered under that Section.

Page 18 of the Registration as British citizen: children caseworker guidance wrote:Children born to a parent registered under section 4C, 4G, 4H, 4I of the British Nationality Act 1981
Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 allows those born abroad before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen. Sections 4G, 4H and 4I are registration provisions for those born before 1 July 2006 who would have become British automatically if their parents had been married. Any child born outside of the UK after the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent will be a British citizen under section 2(1) .

You must normally register a child if:

• the child was born before the parent registered under one of the above sections
• the child would be a British citizen or have an entitlement to be registered under section 3(2) or 3(5)
• where necessary both parents consent to the registration or any objections by the non applying parent are ill founded
• there is no reason to refuse on character grounds

Documentary evidence to be supplied

Applications under sections 4C, 4G, 4H, and 4I must be supported by the following evidence:
• the child’s birth certificate showing parents’ details
• the relevant parent’s birth certificate showing their parent’s details
• the parents’ marriage certificate if appropriate
• the grandparents’ birth and marriage certificates if appropriate
• evidence of the parent’s registration

Hat-tip to user RainyDayRun for pointing out the provision in the guidance for such cases.

Thank you so much for all this information! It seems it would be prudent for me to hire a solicitor in that case to make sure the applications have the best chance possible. Thanks again.

I am in the process of applying to register for citizenship by descent which I expect to be approved. As a child, I lived in the U.K. for 6 years (two rounds of 3 year stays), so ordinarily the kids would be eligible under 3(2) except I am only now registering for citizenship (after their birth), so I was obviously not a citizen at the time of their birth. I'm wondering whether it is worth it to hire a solicitor to make the case for approval under 3(1), particularly as there will be three applications and £3000 is a lot to gamble on uncertain odds, though similarly, £1000 (typical solicitor fee - especially per application) is a lot to spend as well if it's not truly necessary.

Tangentially, I also am curious if anyone has ever opted for the citizenship ceremony for their very young children. Mine would be 4, 3, and 1 at the time of receiving citizenship, so it's not anything they would necessarily understand, but I'd also like to be able to tell them about it when they are older, assuming the citizenship ceremonies can be tailor-able to the younger crowd. (We are currently in the United States.)

. Tangentially, I also am curious if anyone has ever opted for the citizenship ceremony for their very young children. Mine would be 4, 3, and 1 at the time of receiving citizenship, so it's not anything they would necessarily understand, but I'd also like to be able to tell them about it when they are older, assuming the citizenship ceremonies can be tailor-able to the younger crowd. (We are currently in the United States.)

Children under 18 don't attend citizenship ceremonies. They just get the registration certificate if application is approved.

I have also merged your topics.

Cheers, did not realise merging was an option.

I saw on the fees guide that the £80 ceremony fee was mandatory for turning-18s but didn't realise that it wasn't an option at all for children. Thank you for the clarification.

Hello, I just recently registered as a UK citizen from the USA (UKF) and am trying to register my children. I lived in the United Kingdom for six years as a child but form UKF wasn't available until the year my eldest was born (and I hadn't known about it since the last time I checked for eligibility, only form UKM was an option).

I spoke to a solicitor who advised me to try for Section 3(2) over 3(1) since the Secretary of State would be using discretion either way. But it would be an expensive application for three children at £1000 each, so I'm nervous about throwing it away if I'm going to ultimately need that money in savings to satisfy the financial requirements for three non-UK children and a non-UK spouse. We are planning on moving to Scotland next year and I am writing a cover letter to include the reasons why I believe it would be in the children's best interest to come in on UK passports (no guns in UK schools, healthcare, more financial security for them as my field is more in demand in the UK), but I'm not sure if UKVI cares much about that.

I'm curious to hear any opinions and experience on applying for MN1s from abroad under unusual circumstances, and I'd also appreciate any advice on the "safest" bet (i.e., whether I'd be throwing my money away to apply for them now when I should be saving it to sponsor them in and then naturalise them after 3 years in the UK). Any advice on what could possibly be valuable in a cover letter would also be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

For a 3(2) registration, you must have been British by Descent at the time of the childrens birth, which you were not.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 4.0ext.pdf

Section 3(1) requires children to have residence and ILR in the UK.

Form UKF does not give retrospective entitlement.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:17 am

Registration is a grant of citizenship and is prospective. You will become a British citizen from the date on the registration certificate.

Any children born to you before the date of the registration certificate will not have an entitlement to register under either Section 3(2) or 3(5), both of which require one parent to be a British citizen by descent at the time of the birth of the child involved.

The children will have to be registered under Section 3(1), but that will be a registration at discretion. However your children will likely be registered under that Section.

Page 18 of the Registration as British citizen: children caseworker guidance wrote:Children born to a parent registered under section 4C, 4G, 4H, 4I of the British Nationality Act 1981
Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 allows those born abroad before 1 January 1983 to British mothers to be registered as a British citizen. Sections 4G, 4H and 4I are registration provisions for those born before 1 July 2006 who would have become British automatically if their parents had been married. Any child born outside of the UK after the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent will be a British citizen under section 2(1) .

You must normally register a child if:

• the child was born before the parent registered under one of the above sections
• the child would be a British citizen or have an entitlement to be registered under section 3(2) or 3(5)
• where necessary both parents consent to the registration or any objections by the non applying parent are ill founded
• there is no reason to refuse on character grounds

Documentary evidence to be supplied

Applications under sections 4C, 4G, 4H, and 4I must be supported by the following evidence:
• the child’s birth certificate showing parents’ details
• the relevant parent’s birth certificate showing their parent’s details
• the parents’ marriage certificate if appropriate
• the grandparents’ birth and marriage certificates if appropriate
• evidence of the parent’s registration

Hat-tip to user RainyDayRun for pointing out the provision in the guidance for such cases.

The above advice given by secret.simon in September last year, when you asked the same question, has not changed.

I very recently received unusual advice from a solicitor on the approved list of solicitors from UKVI, which is what has changed. As a result, I am trying to find if anyone else has gone against the stated eligibility guidance or lodged a similarly unusual application. I understand what UKVI says explicitly about eligibility, but given the new advice I was given, I am trying to gather related insight from others who have been told something similar.

On what basis did the solicitor say this is possible and what nationality law clause specifically has he stated?

Has he by any chance said it was possible based on the Romein Case??

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:06 pm

For a 3(2) registration, you must have been British by Descent at the time of the childrens birth, which you were not.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 4.0ext.pdf

Section 3(1) requires children to have residence and ILR in the UK.

Form UKF does not give retrospective entitlement.

Additionally, according to this website, the only statutory requirements are:
"•the applicant is under 18 at the date of the application
•if aged 10 years or over on the date of application the applicant is of good character see good character requirements
•they think fit to register them".

So it doesn't look like residency/ILR are required.

I'm sure you can understand how this is confusing, given all the conflicting information.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:23 pm

On what basis did the solicitor say this is possible and what nationality law clause specifically has he stated?

Has he by any chance said it was possible based on the Romein Case??

She said it was because all applications are essentially discretionary anyway and I would have been a citizen, I just hadn't registered in time. She didn't cite a specific clause.

ElMac94 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:29 pm

She said it was because all applications are essentially discretionary anyway and I would have been a citizen, I just hadn't registered in time. She didn't cite a specific clause.

There was no route for you to register as British if you were born to unmarried parents and British father. UKF was introduced to correct this error and to recognise children born out of marriage to a British father.

So it doesn't look like residency/ILR are required.

I was specifically referring to Section 3(1) applications which usually do have this requirement.

So it doesn't look like residency/ILR are required.

I was specifically referring to Section 3(1) applications which usually do have this requirement.
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I'm also specifically referring to Section 3(1), per page 16 of the link you sent me:

Discretionary applications under section 3(1)This section explains the circumstances in which it will normally be appropriate to exercise discretion. There are certain scenarios where you would normally be expected to register a child as a British citizen. In all other cases you must apply the criteria for all other children.The law in relation to section 3(1)This is a discretionary provision for the registration of a child. The Home Secretary may exercise their discretion to register people as British citizens under section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981if:•the applicant is under 18 at the date of the application•if aged 10 years or over on the date of application the applicant is of good character see good character requirements•they think fit to register them. These are the only statutory requirements. This guidance sets out how you must normally use discretion.