EEA2 Residence to expire Feb 2019

Hi all,

I currently hold a 5-year residence permit as a non-EEA family member to an EEA national (wife). This is due to expire in February 2019.

My wife continues to exercise her rights as an employed person and, had Brexit not been a factor, we would have intended to apply for EEA3 and EEA4 permanent residence next year. Given the expiry date of my residence permit I'm assuming it would be pointless applying for permanent residence via the EEA3/4 form, however I'm lost as to where we stand at the moment.

My question - is this still very much 'unknown' territory as to what rights I/we will have come the expiry of my residence permit (and more crucially come March 2019)? I am also employed here and we have a mortgage over our heads so are obviously rather concerned.

Thanks.

siroc wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:02 pm

Given the expiry date of my residence permit I'm assuming it would be pointless applying for permanent residence via the EEA3/4 form, however I'm lost as to where we stand at the moment.

Because you are married, you do not really need a residence document (unless for some unfortunate reason you need to prove your right to work within that month), so you could wait a month after your RC expires, then apply with your wife for Settled status in March 2019: https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-ci ... ligibility

My question - is this still very much 'unknown' territory as to what rights I/we will have come the expiry of my residence permit (and more crucially come March 2019)?

Again, as you are married, you have the same rights you have with a valid document. A different story would be if you were an unmarried couple, in which case your rights would not be automatic.
Re: Brexit, and stuff, See this post, which pretty much sums up the most recent discussions around it in this forum: eea-route-applications/what-will-happen ... 64231.html

Thanks Kamoe for your insight - and for the links.

My employer knows that the "Renewal Date" for my residence permit is in February, so I suppose my difficulty will be proving my legality should they ask to check this (quite likely).

siroc wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:39 pm

My employer knows that the "Renewal Date" for my residence permit is in February, so I suppose my difficulty will be proving my legality should they ask to check this (quite likely).

Ah. In this case they could accept alternative documentation as proof of your right to work (your passports+wife's QP certificate or proof of qualified person+marriage certificate), although this is really up to them, as advised in this Freedom of Informaiton request https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... he_right_2

Also, to avoid any risk, it' also up to you to decide to maybe apply for another RC before yours expires, even though, as you say, might be a bit silly given you'll be able to apply for Settled status shortly after that. However, any RC you obtain in 2019 will still be valid until December 2020, so no need to replace it immediately.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:50 pm

Also, to avoid any risk, it' also up to you to decide to maybe apply for another RC before yours expires, even though, as you say, might be a bit silly given you'll be able to apply for Settled status shortly after that. However, any RC you obtain in 2019 will still be valid until December 2020, so no need to replace it immediately.

That didn't even occur to me to be honest. Does the current permit need to have expired before one is eligible to apply? And I assume this will be subject to the same lengthy delays (4-6 months or more) as it was when we initially applied in 2013?

siroc wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:57 pm

Does the current permit need to have expired before one is eligible to apply?

There are a number of reasons why one would like to apply for a new RC before one's current RC expires, for example, theft or loss, or, as in your case, to avoid having a gap. Don't quote me on this, but providing you surrender your current RC with your application (which is probably the only downside to it), I don't see why they would not accept issuing you with a new one, provided all other requirements are met.

And I assume this will be subject to the same lengthy delays (4-6 months or more) as it was when we initially applied in 2013?

If you look at the latest timelines, average wait is under 2 months now.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:10 pm

There are a number of reasons why one would like to apply for a new RC before one's current RC expires, for example, theft or loss, or, as in your case, to avoid having a gap. Don't quote me on this, but providing you submit your current RC with your application (which is probably the only downside to it), I don't see why they would not accept issuing you with a new one, provided all other requirements are met.

If you look at the latest timelines, average wait is under 2 months now.

Excellent - I think I may just do that then. You've been a terrific help.

Note that 5 years after which you acquire permanent residency start from the day you entered UK, not from the day they issued you EEA2. If it expires in February 2019, it means it was granted in February 2014. But you applied before that, and you entered UK even before you applied. So probably you are already entitled to PR or will be very soon ?

obormot wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:35 pm

Note that 5 years after which you acquire permanent residency start from the day you entered UK, not from the day they issued you EEA2. If it expires in February 2019, it means it was granted in February 2014. But you applied before that, and you entered UK even before you applied. So probably you are already entitled to PR or will be very soon ?

Well in such case it has been more than five years. However if permanent residency via the EEA route is set to be made invalid post Brexit, surely it would be more straightforward and easy to re-apply for the RC now (to merely serve as proof of residence after my current one expires in Feb) and then to apply for settled status in March once the terms of that have been finalised? What do you think?

I do not see any point applying for RC. The only difference between applying for RC and PR is that for PR you need to demonstrate that
- your partner exercised treaty rights for 5 years
- you resided in UK for 5 years
If it is easy to prove (say she has all her P60, you have bank statements showing your address, etc.), then it is much better to apply directly for PR.
On top of it, it is very probable that the procedure to exchange PR for settled status will be easier then application for settled status from scrutch, and it will be free..

obormot wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:51 pm

I do not see any point applying for RC. The only difference between applying for RC and PR is that for PR you need to demonstrate that
- your partner exercised treaty rights for 5 years
- you resided in UK for 5 years
If it is easy to prove (say she has all her P60, you have bank statements showing your address, etc.), then it is much better to apply directly for PR.
On top of it, it is very probable that the procedure to exchange PR for settled status will be easier then application for settled status from scrutch, and it will be free..

I was under the impression that the wealth of information required and timeline for document return was far greater for the PR application.

Now I'm really quite confused - from reading the information on the Home Office website it would seem that my wife (EEA citizen) can apply for permanent residence herself online and for me at the same time?

So the pros/cons of applying for PR from my (limited) understanding is:

+ To make the process of applying for settled status easier later on
+ Possibility for us to do this together online
- No benefit in terms of period of validity
- Larger array of required supporting documentation (assumption here)
- Potentially longer waiting times?

Would that be an accurate summation?

I do not think expected waiting times differ.
As for amount of information required, it depends on your case.
For example, if EU worker works continuously for 5 years, then 5 consecutive P60 are enough to prove both their residence and exersising treaty rights (so application consists of just - passport, application form, 2 photos, and 5 forms P60)
My partner submitted just those for himself, plus passports, photos, birth certificates, and school reports for kids - 1 per year per kid (this is PR application, we are still waiting for the result)
Some people have serious difficulties to show 5 years of exersising treaty rights and/or residency, in which case RC might be a way to go.
By the way, you were planning to apply for PR for you and your partner next February, right? Now you realise you can do it today already. Why are you suddenly uncomfortable applying for PR?

And yes, you can apply online for both of you together. And then get your passports checked by local authorities, and keep them, sending only copies to HO.

siroc wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:45 pm

Well in such case it has been more than five years.

Please keep in mind this really depends on your particular immigration history. You have to have been married or have held a EEA residence document throughout the 5 years (which seems like it's the case, but just to clarify).

However if permanent residency via the EEA route is set to be made invalid post Brexit

Your understanding is not accurate. As you can see in the links I shared above, PR cards will still be valid until December 2020 and their transition to Settled status is supposed to be free of charge, and straightforward, so it will still have value.

surely it would be more straightforward and easy to re-apply for the RC now (to merely serve as proof of residence after my current one expires in Feb) and then to apply for settled status in March once the terms of that have been finalised? What do you think?

If you qualify for PR now, then applying for a RC only does not make sense. You'll still have to complete two processes (PR now, Settled status later), but at least can prove PR earlier.

Now I'm really quite confused - from reading the information on the Home Office website it would seem that my wife (EEA citizen) can apply for permanent residence herself online and for me at the same time?

If you both meet the PR criteria, then yes, she can include you in her online application.

So the pros/cons of applying for PR from my (limited) understanding is:

+ To make the process of applying for settled status easier later on

Yes

+ Possibility for us to do this together online

Yes.

- No benefit in terms of period of validity

Well, you get PR cards valid until 2020 but you'll need to switch to the Settled status before they expire, so the downside here is you'll do two processes, not one.

- Larger array of required supporting documentation (assumption here)

Yes, but depending on your case, this can be straightforward. Does your wife have 5 consecutive P60s?

- Potentially longer waiting times?

Difficult to say but probably similar average waiting times. Check the latest timelines. Some people report getting it in under a month, some over two or three.