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Driving offence- Fined by court - Effect on Naturalisation

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RSARD
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Driving offence naturalisation

Post by RSARD » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:16 pm

I find from the conversation that vinny has posted a link on case workers guidance for this purpose. I am interested in knowing whether driving offence has got any bearing on ILR. where is the link I can access.

thirdwave
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Re: Driving offence naturalisation

Post by thirdwave » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:44 pm

RSARD wrote:I find from the conversation that vinny has posted a link on case workers guidance for this purpose. I am interested in knowing whether driving offence has got any bearing on ILR. where is the link I can access.
The link posted by vinny relates to naturalisation, not ILR.

Cario
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Naturalisation?

Post by Cario » Fri May 23, 2008 9:17 am

How are you getting pn with your Application?

vikramsthakur
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International Driving Licence...ILR

Post by vikramsthakur » Fri May 23, 2008 10:45 am

Wanted to share my personal experience as this post is close to what I have gone through. I had a similar conviction. Overspeeding on a Motorway. It was a rented car (so no issues of car documentation). I was carrying a International driving permit and Indian Licence. The cops stopped me for overspeading on motorway. 1st letters I got from court they charged me for licence as well. I wrote back about 1949 convention and referred to my discussions with DVLA. Finally, in the court hearing the judges dropped the charges for licence as they said it was valid since every time I come into UK my licence was reset for 12 months. So I can drive. But was charged and fined for overspeeding. However, the judges advised me that this rule is for convenience and it seems you are exploiting the circumstanced to your advantage. I argues that the DVLA rule of having to send original passport for a provisional licence is stupid and my job requires me to travel almost every month. I have tried a couple of times but then I have to recall it. So as soon as I can plan 3 weeks no travel I will apply.

I don't think the claim that you can't drive after 12 months is correct. My friend was stopped many times and he is driving on a Indian licence for 3 years. Never charged for anything. They just check the last stamp on the passport.

Cheers

John
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Post by John » Fri May 23, 2008 12:58 pm

I don't think the claim that you can't drive after 12 months is correct.
I think you were very lucky, getting away with that, given that in other cases the person has been successfully prosecuted for not having a valid licence. In a quieter moment I shall dig out a link to the full ruling in such a case.
John

djb123
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Post by djb123 » Fri May 23, 2008 4:11 pm

The following site states that if you are a visitor you can drive on a foreign license for up to 12 months from the last time you entered the country. Though if you are a resident here you can only drive on a foreign license for up to 12 months from when you first became a resident.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... DG_4022561

tvt
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Post by tvt » Mon May 26, 2008 12:03 am

The Convention on Road Traffic (1949) which the UK has ratified is the source for permitting holders of international driving permits to drive in the UK for a year.

See text at: http://157.150.195.3/LibertyX::DARUW0Os ... T7wGlpXyRr

or

http://www.geocities.com/bkkriders/law/ ... d1949.html

UK ratification can be found here (the UK's reservaions can be found somewhre in the middle of the document):

http://untreaty.un.org/ENGLISH/bible/en ... reaty1.asp

Article 1(1) to the Convention on Road Traffic (1949) states:

"While reserving its jurisdiction over the use of its own roads, each Contracting State agrees to the use of its roads for international traffic under the conditions set out in this Convention."


Article 1(2) is the source for the ambiguity about the one year validity period of the International Driving Permit (IDP):

"No Contracting State shall be required to extend the benefit of the provisions of this Convention to any motor vehicle or trailer, or to any driver having remained within its territory for a continuous period exceeding one year."

Therefore, according to the convention the UK is not required to recognise an IDP the holder of which has remained in the UK for a continuous period exceeding one year.

The question is what counts as "continuous period". If this is interpreted literally, you can break the continuity by travelling out the UK for one day after you stayed in the UK for a year.

The only case law that I have managed to find on the subject was the Flores case. However, in this case the foreign driver has failed to show either a full UK driving licence or an IDP (he showed a Mexican driving licence which had expired) so the case does not help so much. There is no case where a driver was found guilty after remaining in the UK for a period exceeding one year whilst holding an IDP).
-----------------------------------
<<<N. N. - G. N.>>>

senthil78
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Re: Driving offence- Fined by court - Effect on Naturalisati

Post by senthil78 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:06 pm

indian_in_uk wrote:Hi All,

I have been living in the UK for nearly six years and have ILR (that was granted last year). I will be applying for Naturalisation soon,

I want to ask you guys about one incident that happened two years ago, I was driving on my Indian license but also had my provisional UK driving license with me. A police officer stopped me and asked me to produce all documents in police station, I produced everything(everything was fine, MOT, Insurance (on International License) and road tax etc.). Later I got a letter from court about the same thing. I went there and they fined me for the same offence and added three points on my provisional license. Aftr that I did not hear anything from them. The offence code was LC20 (not driving according to license)

I applied for my ILR last year and did declare this offence in the form but was not asked anything and granted ILR.

I am about to file my Naturalisation application soon, I was wondering can this effect my Naturalisation application by any chance?

Can you guys please help me here?

Thanks..
Hi Indian_in_uk,
Have you got your naturalisation approved?. My situation is same as yours. It is been long time since you posted this message. Hopefully you would have got your citizenship. Can you please share your result?.

Thanks
Senthil

Ere
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Post by Ere » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:46 pm

@indian_in_uk ...and anyone else with similar case who recently applied for Naturalisation, please share your experience.

I had a similar experience (but no letter from court..., the policeman just said I should take my documents to the police station, they took the licence and post it back to me!!)

I e-mailed the HO about it...and they replied as follows;

If you have a fixed penalty against your driving licence this should not effect your application. It is only court given fines that require you to wait a minimum of five years before applying.

If you were not required to go to court then you may be able to apply so long as you meet the other requirements stated in the guide AN.

You do not have to mention the Fixed Penalty on your AN form
.

What I am not sure about is that ...You need a court to seat and a judge to convict before you can be convicted.... and can a court convict witout any communication whatsoever with the accused.

I need as many opinions on this as possible.

dnicky
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Post by dnicky » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:12 pm

had a similar experience (but no letter from court..., the policeman just said I should take my documents to the police station, they took the licence and post it back to me!!)
It will help if you can provide more details about your actual conviction e.g. speeding offence, drink driving etc.

Ere
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Post by Ere » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:59 am

I was randomly stopped by a police guy who requested to see licence + paperwork...I didn't know the rules and thought I was perfectly Ok...so I gave him all the paperwork.

Anyway, the guy said the Int'l License is invalid ...and like a joke issued 3pts and 60pounds for it....and ask me to take everything to a local station. The police collected the licence (Intl + UK provisional) and post it back to me 3 days later....with code LC20...

republique
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Post by republique » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:01 pm

Ere wrote:I was randomly stopped by a police guy who requested to see licence + paperwork...I didn't know the rules and thought I was perfectly Ok...so I gave him all the paperwork.

Anyway, the guy said the Int'l License is invalid ...and like a joke issued 3pts and 60pounds for it....and ask me to take everything to a local station. The police collected the licence (Intl + UK provisional) and post it back to me 3 days later....with code LC20...
oops. bummer

senthil78
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Re: Driving offence- Fined by court - Effect on Naturalisati

Post by senthil78 » Mon May 18, 2009 12:03 am

indian_in_uk wrote:Hi All,

I have been living in the UK for nearly six years and have ILR (that was granted last year). I will be applying for Naturalisation soon,

I want to ask you guys about one incident that happened two years ago, I was driving on my Indian license but also had my provisional UK driving license with me. A police officer stopped me and asked me to produce all documents in police station, I produced everything(everything was fine, MOT, Insurance (on International License) and road tax etc.). Later I got a letter from court about the same thing. I went there and they fined me for the same offence and added three points on my provisional license. Aftr that I did not hear anything from them. The offence code was LC20 (not driving according to license)

I applied for my ILR last year and did declare this offence in the form but was not asked anything and granted ILR.

I am about to file my Naturalisation application soon, I was wondering can this effect my Naturalisation application by any chance?

Can you guys please help me here?

Thanks..
Hi Indian_in_uk,
Have you got your citizenship? can you please share your experience?

Thanks

indian_in_uk
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Post by indian_in_uk » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:23 pm

Hi senthil78,

I still have not applied for the Naturalisation but will be applying for it soon. I have made an appointment with NCS today and will see what they say about it.

Have you applied for Naturalisation and if yes, what was the outcome?

Look forward to hear from you soon

Cheers
I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are; because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star.

johnsienk
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Post by johnsienk » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:08 pm

<original post deleted>
Last edited by johnsienk on Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

johnsienk
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Post by johnsienk » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:11 pm

<original post deleted>
Last edited by johnsienk on Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

supercreature
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Post by supercreature » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:25 pm

I have the same case, I was using international license and Provisional license.... I was stopped for taking wrong turn. While I was taking out the International license from Wallet Police officer who was some lady spotted provisional license and asked me to give as it has my UK details. That time I just got the fix panelty notice 60£ fine. I had to fly to other country urgently and had just went over the time and got similar notice from court with conviction driving with Provisional license... although police officer knew I had International license but they are so clever to hide that fact. Because I was so busy those days I just paid the court fine instead of arguing or presenting myself there ...

The incident happened back in Nov 2006. I had mentioned this in my previous extension applications. I have applied for ILR now by postal application, I have not put much details on application form and just mentioned "Driving not according to License + 3 Points on License". Not sure how Case worker will treat that at ILR.

s_max
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Post by s_max » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:05 pm

Hi, India_UK, did you apply your ILR in PEO or by post?

z.yas
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Post by z.yas » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:09 pm

Sushil-ACCA wrote:Still hope best

pray god , and do good work for community

join police 2 day in a month free service program and hope a lineint view on u

but u must strat on this line to improve yr case
Just out of curiosity, do they ignore these sort of offenses based on extras like community work, volunteering, etc?

republique
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Post by republique » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:20 pm

z.yas wrote:
Sushil-ACCA wrote:Still hope best

pray god , and do good work for community

join police 2 day in a month free service program and hope a lineint view on u

but u must strat on this line to improve yr case
Just out of curiosity, do they ignore these sort of offenses based on extras like community work, volunteering, etc?
Uhh no. You can't cancel a bad offence with a good one.

anotherspouse
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SPENT (SP30) TRAFFIC OFENCE

Post by anotherspouse » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:36 am

vinny wrote:
thirdwave wrote:Driving without license is not a minor offence. The caseworker guidance makes it clear that its one of the offences that CANNOT be disregarded while considering an application for naturalisation. Vinny has posted a link to the relevant guidance elsewhere..
See also Naturalisation, when to apply?
hi!...I applied for naturalisation last Monday. 4 1/2 years ago I was caught by a camera and got fined (£60 + 3points) by court (SP30). On the application I did not declare that since the offence wass suppposed to be spent after 4 years. I still have my doubts even though I got thar information from DVLA. I have not been able to sleep thinking if I had made a mistake by not declaring it.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!

z.yas
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Re: SPENT (SP30) TRAFFIC OFENCE

Post by z.yas » Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:58 pm

anotherspouse wrote:
vinny wrote:
thirdwave wrote:Driving without license is not a minor offence. The caseworker guidance makes it clear that its one of the offences that CANNOT be disregarded while considering an application for naturalisation. Vinny has posted a link to the relevant guidance elsewhere..
See also Naturalisation, when to apply?
hi!...I applied for naturalisation last Monday. 4 1/2 years ago I was caught by a camera and got fined (£60 + 3points) by court (SP30). On the application I did not declare that since the offence wass suppposed to be spent after 4 years. I still have my doubts even though I got thar information from DVLA. I have not been able to sleep thinking if I had made a mistake by not declaring it.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
If I am not mistaken, it's still unspent. The timeframe is 5 years, not 4. I think you should have declared it. It looks like a minor offence and could have been ignored by HO, but now that you have not declared it, they might question the integrity. Perhaps the experts could clarify whether its possible to amend / withdraw the application now.

f2k
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Post by f2k » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:12 pm

i agree because you were fined by a court, the offence will be spent after 5years. As Z.yas pointed out, you may want to look at how to withdraw the application. this is merely because you have not declared the offence and it may very well be considered as deception which could lead you into a lot of trouble.

anotherspouse
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Post by anotherspouse » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:22 pm

f2k wrote:i agree because you were fined by a court, the offence will be spent after 5years. As Z.yas pointed out, you may want to look at how to withdraw the application. this is merely because you have not declared the offence and it may very well be considered as deception which could lead you into a lot of trouble.
I am banging my head against the wall!....I checked the information on http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... G_10022425
where they said that recors are filed for 4 years.....what a mistake!...the rehabilitation period for my offence is 5!...well, a bit too late now. Home Office just got my application yesterday from the NCS Gloucester so payment has not been taken yet. I have spoken a few times with the home office and they have adviced me to write a letter explaining the situation. Even if we have to lose the payment, the most important thing right now is not to be acused of deception by withholding information. ....

anotherspouse
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APPLICATION FOR CITIZENSHIP APROVED!

Post by anotherspouse » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:36 pm

anotherspouse wrote:
f2k wrote:i agree because you were fined by a court, the offence will be spent after 5years. As Z.yas pointed out, you may want to look at how to withdraw the application. this is merely because you have not declared the offence and it may very well be considered as deception which could lead you into a lot of trouble.
I am banging my head against the wall!....I checked the information on http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr ... G_10022425
where they said that recors are filed for 4 years.....what a mistake!...the rehabilitation period for my offence is 5!...well, a bit too late now. Home Office just got my application yesterday from the NCS Gloucester so payment has not been taken yet. I have spoken a few times with the home office and they have adviced me to write a letter explaining the situation. Even if we have to lose the payment, the most important thing right now is not to be acused of deception by withholding information. ....
Dear all!....I just got the Citizenship Invitation from the Home Office!....to be honest I still cannot believe it. I was 99.9% convinced it would be denied because of a unspent traffic offence I had not declared on the application form but days later by post on a letter. My husband (who also had a similar offence) and my children have also been aproved......
I am now in the process to arrange the ceremony with the local authority...

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