New Application - Professional Referee Information Required by Form

Hi all,

I'm working on the online application to register my children as citizens. A few basic questions about the professional referee:

• The form is requiring a passport number for both referees, but I'd rather not ask that of their teacher. How have others handled this? Can I just put in 123456789? It requires a 9 digit number.

• I put in their work address where it asks for an address, correct?

• And I need to ask for their birthday, correct?

I seems a bit strange to me they ask for this in the application, but not on the form the referee needs to fill out.

Thanks in advance for any help!

RainyDayRun wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:25 pm

Hi all,

I'm working on the online application to register my children as citizens. A few basic questions about the professional referee:

• The form is requiring a passport number for both referees, but I'd rather not ask that of their teacher. How have others handled this? Can I just put in 123456789? It requires a 9 digit number.

• I put in their work address where it asks for an address, correct?

• And I need to ask for their birthday, correct?

I seems a bit strange to me they ask for this in the application, but not on the form the referee needs to fill out.

Thanks in advance for any help!

When I applied for my daughter online, I simply just typed out the information that is required and take it to the teacher. He asked me to come back the next day as his passport is not with him to get the passport number. He filled the information and I inputed it online.

Please do not put any fictitious number when filling as that will amount to giving false information.
If the teacher does not want to give out his passport number, then leave it blank(I am not sure how the online form handles this.)

Let the teacher provide the information that you need to use. He might decide to use his home of work address.

Thanks for the reply. It won't let you move to the next screen without entering a passport number for both referees.

This is frustrating as it states only the first reference needs to be a passport holder.

I'll just ask and hope for the best. As a teacher, I wouldn't like sharing that information, bit hopefully this person is more trusting than I am!

RainyDayRun wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:05 pm

Thanks for the reply. It won't let you move to the next screen without entering a passport number for both referees.

This is frustrating as it states only the first reference needs to be a passport holder.

I'll just ask and hope for the best. As a teacher, I wouldn't like sharing that information, bit hopefully this person is more trusting than I am!

The question in the Online form when I applied says:-

Does your referee have a British passport?(Required)
Yes
No
What is their passport number?

My understanding is and was that you only complete the "passport number" IF you mark YES to "Does your referee have a British passport?" It is not a legal requirement for a British Citizen to have a British Passport, however, your non-professional referee needs "This referee must be the holder of a British Citizen passport".

For the second referee it asks if they are a British citizen. If 'yes' is clicked it won't let you move on without entering their passport number. In the section header it does not mention a passport for the second referee.

I'm guessing this is a mistake in creating the form, and was hoping this community knew a way around it.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping my second referee both has a passport and is willing to share the number.

RainyDayRun wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:37 pm

For the second referee it asks if they are a British citizen. If 'yes' is clicked it won't let you move on without entering their passport number. In the section header it does not mention a passport for the second referee.

I'm guessing this is a mistake in creating the form, and was hoping this community knew a way around it.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping my second referee both has a passport and is willing to share the number.

One (first (non-professional but can be a professional OR over 25)) has to be a "British Passport" holder as asks as below for their British Passport number.

Give your first referee's details. This referee must be the holder of a British Citizen passport (and either a professional person or over the age of 25)

Additional details for your first referee
What is their phone number?
What is their email address?
What is their profession?
Does your referee have a British passport?(Required)
Yes
No
What is their passport number?
How does the referee know the applicant?

Your second referee is your professional referee and can be of any nationality so if not a British Passport holder then answer No and will not need the British Passport number. If you answer Yes, then you will need give the British Passport number.

Your second referee
Give your second referee's details. This referee should be a person (of any nationality) who has professional standing. This can include a minister of religion, civil servant or a member of a professional body such as an accountant or solicitor (who is not representing you with this application).

This is off my screenshots of the Online Application.

Thank you, Ancestor. However, I don't see where the second referee must hold a passport if British. Clearly the form is structured that they must have passport if British, however my understanding of the guidance was that only the non-professional referee needed to be a UK passport holder.

At this point, I have passport numbers for both referees so it won't impact me personally. But either this detail has been left out of the guidance, or I'm just missing it.

RainyDayRun wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:52 am

Thank you, Ancestor. However, I don't see where the second referee must hold a passport if British. Clearly the form is structured that they must have passport if British, however my understanding of the guidance was that only the non-professional referee needed to be a UK passport holder.

At this point, I have passport numbers for both referees so it won't impact me personally. But either this detail has been left out of the guidance, or I'm just missing it.

As I said below, those quoted passages are directly off the Online Application Form and you are quite right, as I said it quite clearly states that your 2nd Referee is your professional referee and can be of any nationality so if not a British Passport holder then answer No and will not need the British Passport number.

Your 1st Referee however, it clearly states, has to be a British Citizen Passport holder so you would need answer Yes and will need provide the British Citizen Passport number.

It is very clear and right imo, as confirmed by Section 5: Referees and identity (click link) bottom Page 11 and again on the Paper Form 5. Referees and Identity (click link) on Page 19 where it says:-

One referee should be a person of any nationality who has professional standing, such as a minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body such as an accountant or solicitor (who is not representing you with this application). The other referee must normally be the holder of a British citizen passport and either a professional person or over the age of 25.

Pretty clearly pointed out to me and not missing?

I think some of the confusion is referring to the referees as first and second -- I'll just call it the professional referee -- sorry about that!

Also, it seems you are working from form AN while I'm working on MN1.

You state your form asks the question as

Does your referee have a British passport?(Required)
Yes
No
What is their passport number?

MN1 only asks if they are a British citizen. If you answer yes to citizenship there is not a follow up question about whether or not they hold a passport, it simply requires the number. The only way to avoid including the number is to state they are not a British citizen.

Ancestor wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:02 pm

One referee should be a person of any nationality who has professional standing, such as a minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body such as an accountant or solicitor (who is not representing you with this application). The other referee must normally be the holder of a British citizen passport and either a professional person or over the age of 25.

Pretty clearly pointed out to me and not missing?

For form MN1, the wording is slightly different:

One referee should be a professional who has engaged with the child in a professional capacity, such as a teacher, health visitor, social worker or minister of religion. The other referee must normally be the holder of a British citizen passport and either a professional person or over the age of 25.

To match the guidance with the form as it stands, the guidance needs to state that any referee who is a British citizen must also be a holder of a British passport. The only way to avoid including a passport number for the professional reference is to check they are not a British citizen.

I would write the guidance as:

One referee should be a professional who has engaged with the child in a professional capacity, such as a teacher, health visitor, social worker or minister of religion. The other referee must be a British citizen who is either a professional person or over the age of 25. Any referee who is a British citizen must normally be the holder of a British citizen passport.

Does that clarify my point?